Social There is a huge protest in Melbourne, Australia

[original doom]

why cant we upload images anymore ?

 

[Ruprecht]

why cant we upload images anymore ?

It's a War Room limitation which stops you from uploading directly via posts. You can still create and use a personal album, or upload to a post in another subforum and embed it in a post here via image posting.

 

[Haloom]

The Australian slant on these protests is that they are protesting Aboriginal deaths in custody. There is a widespread claim that 434 Aboriginal people have died in custody since 1991, without a single person charged over any one of them. By timing these protests to coincide with the George Flloyd protest, there is the implication that the majority of these 434 people were killed by police who never faced charges. The statistics simply do not support this narrative at all.

"This paper examines the trends and characteristics of Indigenous deaths in custody since 1991–92, using data obtained through the National Deaths in Custody Program (NDICP). NDICP data show Indigenous people are now less likely than non Indigenous people to die in prison custody, largely due to a decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners from 1999–2000 to 2005–06. Coinciding with this decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners is a decrease in the hanging death rate of Indigenous prisoners."

"The majority of Indigenous prison deaths from 1991–92 to 2015–16 were due to natural causes (58%; n=140), followed by hanging (32%; n=78; Table A1). Twelve deaths (5%) were due to drugs and/or alcohol and nine (4%) were due to external trauma."

The focus on Aboriginal deaths in custody is a red herring. The issue is not that Aboriginal people are being killed by police at higher rates, if anything the opposite is true. The actual issue is that Aborignal people are incarcerated at much higher rates, make up more of the prison population and therefore have a seemingly high number of deaths. The woke will say this is purely because they are targeted by police for petty crimes and lack resources to use the legal system effectively. Others will say it's because there is genuinely more crime in Indigenous communities. I would say both are factors.

 

[esotamoc]

I Left Melbourne several years ago. It has become full of hipsters and woke cringe. Glad I got out in time. The weather is shit also.

 

[esotamoc]

The Australian slant on these protests is that they are protesting Aboriginal deaths in custody. There is a widespread claim that 434 Aboriginal people have died in custody since 1991, without a single person charged over any one of them. By timing these protests to coincide with the George Flloyd protest, there is the implication that the majority of these 434 people were killed by police who never faced charges. The statistics simply do not support this narrative at all.

"This paper examines the trends and characteristics of Indigenous deaths in custody since 1991–92, using data obtained through the National Deaths in Custody Program (NDICP). NDICP data show Indigenous people are now less likely than non Indigenous people to die in prison custody, largely due to a decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners from 1999–2000 to 2005–06. Coinciding with this decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners is a decrease in the hanging death rate of Indigenous prisoners."

"The majority of Indigenous prison deaths from 1991–92 to 2015–16 were due to natural causes (58%; n=140), followed by hanging (32%; n=78; Table A1). Twelve deaths (5%) were due to drugs and/or alcohol and nine (4%) were due to external trauma."

The focus on Aboriginal deaths in custody is a red herring. The issue is not that Aboriginal people are being killed by police at higher rates, if anything the opposite is true. The actual issue is that Aborignal people are incarcerated at much higher rates, make up more of the prison population and therefore have a seemingly high number of deaths. The woke will say this is purely because they are targeted by police for petty crimes and lack resources to use the legal system effectively. Others will say it's because there is genuinely more crime in Indigenous communities. I would say both are factors.

Agree. The problem is the poverty, alcoholism and breakdown in their communities. I have now idea how this can be fixed.

 

[Ruprecht]

The Australian slant on these protests is that they are protesting Aboriginal deaths in custody. There is a widespread claim that 434 Aboriginal people have died in custody since 1991, without a single person charged over any one of them. By timing these protests to coincide with the George Flloyd protest, there is the implication that the majority of these 434 people were killed by police who never faced charges. The statistics simply do not support this narrative at all.

"This paper examines the trends and characteristics of Indigenous deaths in custody since 1991–92, using data obtained through the National Deaths in Custody Program (NDICP). NDICP data show Indigenous people are now less likely than non Indigenous people to die in prison custody, largely due to a decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners from 1999–2000 to 2005–06. Coinciding with this decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners is a decrease in the hanging death rate of Indigenous prisoners."

"The majority of Indigenous prison deaths from 1991–92 to 2015–16 were due to natural causes (58%; n=140), followed by hanging (32%; n=78; Table A1). Twelve deaths (5%) were due to drugs and/or alcohol and nine (4%) were due to external trauma."

The focus on Aboriginal deaths in custody is a red herring. The issue is not that Aboriginal people are being killed by police at higher rates, if anything the opposite is true. The actual issue is that Aborignal people are incarcerated at much higher rates, make up more of the prison population and therefore have a seemingly high number of deaths. The woke will say this is purely because they are targeted by police for petty crimes and lack resources to use the legal system effectively. Others will say it's because there is genuinely more crime in Indigenous communities. I would say both are factors.

It's a muddled message and largely a product of our saturation with American media and issues in my opinion.
Same reason there was a (admittedly much more minor) kafuffle about some historic statues when the issue was headlining in the US and calls to tighten our already restrictive firearms laws after various US shootings.
I knew there'd be a reaction here after the video of the Floyd arrest went viral and there was major network coverage as well as the torrent of social media commentary. Just part of living in the Anglosphere, although I have to say British influence has waned a huge amount in comparison to the massively increasing American influence (probably just a matter of sheer quantity).

 

[Codpiece]

don't Australians hate their aborigines? they should be out there protesting

Sure, some do. Others resent them as they can receive good handouts and receive preferential treatment in terms of education and even career. But overall I wouldn’t say in my experience they are hated.

I grew up in a place called Condobolin in New South Wales where they live side by side with other Australians without too much issue. Most were poor and didn’t work, but a few of them made out very well as shearers and other such workers.

 

[tangata motu'a]

Sure, some do. Others resent them as they can receive good handouts and receive preferential treatment in terms of education and even career. But overall I wouldn’t say in my experience they are hated.

I grew up in a place called Condobolin in New South Wales where they live side by side with other Australians without too much issue. Most were poor and didn’t work, but a few of them made out very well as shearers and other such workers.

sound pretty equivalent to our native americans

 

[Cid]

The Australian slant on these protests is that they are protesting Aboriginal deaths in custody. There is a widespread claim that 434 Aboriginal people have died in custody since 1991, without a single person charged over any one of them. By timing these protests to coincide with the George Flloyd protest, there is the implication that the majority of these 434 people were killed by police who never faced charges. The statistics simply do not support this narrative at all.

"This paper examines the trends and characteristics of Indigenous deaths in custody since 1991–92, using data obtained through the National Deaths in Custody Program (NDICP). NDICP data show Indigenous people are now less likely than non Indigenous people to die in prison custody, largely due to a decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners from 1999–2000 to 2005–06. Coinciding with this decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners is a decrease in the hanging death rate of Indigenous prisoners."

"The majority of Indigenous prison deaths from 1991–92 to 2015–16 were due to natural causes (58%; n=140), followed by hanging (32%; n=78; Table A1). Twelve deaths (5%) were due to drugs and/or alcohol and nine (4%) were due to external trauma."

The focus on Aboriginal deaths in custody is a red herring. The issue is not that Aboriginal people are being killed by police at higher rates, if anything the opposite is true. The actual issue is that Aborignal people are incarcerated at much higher rates, make up more of the prison population and therefore have a seemingly high number of deaths. The woke will say this is purely because they are targeted by police for petty crimes and lack resources to use the legal system effectively. Others will say it's because there is genuinely more crime in Indigenous communities. I would say both are factors.

I don't think anyone is saying anything close to a majority of those deaths were at the hands of the the police but rather that no body finds a 434-0 record of police innocence in aboriginal custody deaths a remotely believable statistic.

Even Rickson included that one loss to try and make his record remotely believable.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

I will say the older generation have outdated views but there not changing them for anybody.

That's why Obama invented the rona. Those damn Dems.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

Agree. The problem is the poverty, alcoholism and breakdown in their communities. I have now idea how this can be fixed.

Add in substance abuse, sexual abuse, break down of family/ identity and culture and you have melting pot for trouble.

 

[Hard To Tell]

I don't think anyone is saying anything close to a majority of those deaths were at the hands of the the police but rather that no body finds a 434-0 record of police innocence in aboriginal custody deaths a remotely believable statistic.

Even Rickson included that one loss to try and make his record remotely believable.

It's 434 deaths over an almost 30 year period. Yeah, totally unbelievable that you could see such massive numbers without foul play being invloved.

 

[Ruprecht]

I don't think anyone is saying anything close to a majority of those deaths were at the hands of the the police but rather that no body finds a 434-0 record of police innocence in aboriginal custody deaths a remotely believable statistic.

Even Rickson included that one loss to try and make his record remotely believable.

The Chris Hurley case seems especially ridiculous given his subsequent actions, as does the Hickey case which sparked the Redfern riots.
Of course there's no footage of these and the only time there's been what's considered a reliable witness is when another officer speaks up. Such as the failure to render assistance case in the NT (over which the trainee officer who turned witness retired).
I'm just not convinced that hitching that wagon to the American BLM protests is really helpful.

 

[Haloom]

I don't think anyone is saying anything close to a majority of those deaths were at the hands of the the police but rather that no body finds a 434-0 record of police innocence in aboriginal custody deaths a remotely believable statistic.

Even Rickson included that one loss to try and make his record remotely believable.

Fair enough. I still think it is very misleading to throw that number out their without qualifying that a) the vast majority of those are natural causes or self inflicted and b) the rate is lower than the non-Indigenous population.

I have no issue with people wanting to improve Indigenous wellbeing, let's just be honest about the statistics.

The same issue drives me mad with the American narrative.

It is very common to see people post things such as "well as a white person you NEVER have to worry about being killed by a police officer" etc. Fight for your cause but don't lie about the data.

 

[Cid]

It's 434 deaths over an almost 30 year period. Yeah, totally unbelievable that you could see such massive numbers without foul play being invloved.

434/30 = 14.66 per year occurring.

Adjusted for population differences between America and Australia that number would be multiplied by 13.2 for the numbers to be relative.

14.6 x 13.2 = 191 (close enough)

It's slightly under the amount of African Americans getting shot in an average year by police.

Only Aboriginals aren't anywhere as common in Australia as African American people are in America. They're only 3% of the population where are African Americans are at that 12-14% so adjusted again for lower numbers

Another 4x.

191 x 4 = 763 per year if we were the size of America and Aboriginals were the same % of the population that African Americans are.

 

[Haloom]

^You can't directly compare African Americans getting shot by police with Aboriginals dying of natural causes, suicide etc.

How many of the 434 were shot by police? That would be the comparison to make.

 

[LetThemBleed]

Sydney and Melbourne are the two places in Oz that still have ongoing Corona cases (still getting 3 or 4 new cases a day). There's no cases at all here in South Australia at the moment, so things have relaxed a lot and there were no attempts to prevent the protest here.

Still confusing af though because we have to socially distance at bars, restaurants and gatherings are supposed to be only allowed up to 50 or is it 100 people now. But by all means lets have a few thousand in the one place rubbing shoulders. If the state gov was fine with the protest going ahead they should come out tomorrow and say there's no more social distancing across the state otherwise it's hypocritical af.

 

[Ruprecht]

Still confusing af though because we have to socially distance at bars, restaurants and gatherings are supposed to be only allowed up to 50 or is it 100 people now. But by all means lets have a few thousand in the one place rubbing shoulders. If the state gov was fine with the protest going ahead they should come out tomorrow and say there's no more social distancing across the state otherwise it's hypocritical af.

I think it's 80 in restaurants and 20 at home gatherings or gyms (per room). Still supposed to observe the 1.5m rule though. They were pretty packed in the north half of Victoria square. About 5000 people supposedly.

 

[LetThemBleed]

I think it's 80 in restaurants and 20 at home gatherings or gyms. Still supposed to observe the 1.5m rule though.

'Cos clearly everyone at the protest in that photo was definitely observing that rule. You're right though about Adelaide given we haven't had a case in a while so I guess it's not a major issue though it is hypocritical that the gov will enforce distancing in restaurants, bars etc. Vic and NSW though is kinda dumb considering I think Victoria had it's first day without any active cases just today and NSW only recently hasn't had any. Protests in US are the worst though, where thousands of people are still dying each day it's fucking stupid to go out and protests in the thousands.

 

[Ruprecht]

'Cos clearly everyone at the protest in that photo was definitely observing that rule. You're right though about Adelaide given we haven't had a case in a while so I guess it's not a major issue though it is hypocritical that the gov will enforce distancing in restaurants, bars etc. Vic and NSW though is kinda dumb considering I think Victoria had it's first day without any active cases just today and NSW only recently hasn't had any. Protests in US are the worst though, where thousands of people are still dying each day it's fucking stupid to go out and protests in the thousands.

Yeah, the idea was to wind back restrictions slowly over the month to monitor for another outbreak. Not so much to crowd 5000 into the north half of Victoria square for a trial by fire.