Economy The [Wall / Government Shutdown] Megathread

[MikeMcMann]

@MikeMcMann
To be fair the Never Trumpers like George Will etc did warn them that Trump means absolutely nothing he says, ever, to anyone. He's a straight con-man in addition to all the other faults.

The George Will conservatives are a camp I am pretty comfortable in although he is more right than I am.

 

[shockaholic12]

After two years and a gov shutdown at what point you think he should take it to the next level? Government is not functioning correctly as far as he is concern with this. It's so politicized now, it seems the actual subject is lost in talking points... it's all about wins and losses along with tribalism

So if representatives are elected to house and senate that don't share the president's views on a subject and they exercise checks and balances that president can just deem any actions contrary to his opinion as the government not "functioning" correctly and ignore them? That's the government functioning how intended?

Since when does the president decide whether the other branches are "working right" based on whether they carry out his campaign talking points?

If bernie were to get elected and circumvent the other branches and allocate billions of unapproved tax dollars to address a wealth gap national emergency that's cool with you right, because if the senate didn't pass it that'd be the government not functioning correctly as far as bernie is concerned.

 

[all caps]

Imagine getting herded like sheep, stripped of your God given rights and cheering it all on

 

[zebby23]

And Democrats will run on free shit, white man bad, straight people bad, vote for this minority just because "its time"

Lol and you are delusional and make shit up.

Facts are not your friend I see

Dems will run on getting more Americans health care, making college more affordable, assisting with student loan debt, raising the minimum wage. Ya know, things that actually impact Americans unlike a fear mongering wall that only low iq people think we need

 

[SamSchmidt]

lol. I am considered right on this forum on all things not Trump. Most of my disagreements are with the Left here. So knock yourself at trying to attack 'my base'. lol.

And to answer your question yes, you have to be a special kind of stupid to know how badly Trump is playing his base and how gullible and stupid Trump knows them to be and to live up to being the person he needs you to be.

As @glenwo2 admits, he knows, that Trump knows this will be tied up in the courts for years. THey also know it will likely fail.

All this is out there and stated by Trump himself. BUt that is neither here nor there. Trump also knows none of that matters. He knows he can still whip up and manipulate that base by using this despite him knowing it likely won't happen.

Trump is already pivoting his election sloganing to "Finish that wall' again something that requires his base to be painfully stupid to accept.

And does anyone, ANYONE, think if Trump changes that in the months to come to 'Finish that wall... and whose going to pay for it? MEXICO!" that you would not hear Trumpsters chanting and believing that all over again.

That is an honest question by the way. Do you doubt for one minute Trump could not convince his base AGAIN that they will pay nothing, Americans will pay nothing as he will make Mexico pay for it.

If you say Trump could not get his base to again say that I do not believe you. Of course he could.

no one should avoid calling out this level of stupid.

While I agree there is always a level of manipulation of the masses in politics, I would much rather have his in your face behavior, calling out the people who need to be called out than this silent attack on our rights, such as Obama cares 7 billion pages of bullshit they slipped through without a fight.

I'm aware he has the tendency to do shit that makes me cringe. Hell I don't know how his chief of staffs haven't rotated in and out every other week. But Godamnit it's what I like about him in the long run.

I'm also totally on board with the Rock running for president. More for his presence than any kind of crazy great campaign promise he might have. So there is that.

 

[all caps]

Once we get our nice big shiny wall can we officially call ourselves the worlds biggest open air prison of all time? @Sketch

 

[sickc0d3r]

Once we get our nice big shiny wall can we officially call ourselves the worlds biggest open air prison of all time? @Sketch

At least it's co-ed.

So we've got that going for us. Which is nice.

 

[MikeMcMann]

After two years and a gov shutdown at what point you think he should take it to the next level? Government is not functioning correctly as far as he is concern with this. It's so politicized now, it seems the actual subject is lost in talking points... it's all about wins and losses along with tribalism

this is such a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the US gov't is supposed to work.

If a POTUS gets a majority in both the House and the Senate such that he CAN just drive his agenda through, then YES he deserves to have his agenda enacted as drafted.

If POTUS wins the election but not with a majority of votes or seats such that he CANNOT jsut drive his agenda through and requires compromise then NO he does not get to have his agenda enacted as drafted. he MUST seek compromise positions that the other side agrees with or accept he will be stalled or stopped.


The US system is that way by DESIGN. If you have the vast majority of seats and voters than by all means force your agenda on everyone but if you only represent 30% or so of the populace then seek compromises as letting you jam stuff down the throats of the 70% makes no sense.

I argued with another poster here who kept saying 'Trump won so he should get to do what he wants' which just proved he had no idea what the entire idea of Checks and Balances was created for by the framers.

 

[glenwo2]

That is certainly debatable. More on that later.
I was on the anyone but Hilary bandwagon too.

I am still glad HIllary lost despite the disaster Trump is.

Why? Because the 'status quo' 'we will only ever give you choices to vote on the lesser of two evils because we don't want the two party system to change' needs to be blown up.

So I would support any non establishment person over the establishment to keep telling the parties 'we will take massive risks with an unknown rather than voting for a known like HIlary'.





This is where the intelligence thing gets questioned.

Republicans have always claimed to be the party of smaller gov't and balanced budgets. They have always claimed to know that spending and deficits can artificially stimulate an economy but long term someone has to pay that back and that means the benefit today is a negative tomorrow. GOv't always used to practice the rule of surpluses in good years (pay down debt) so you have that short stimulus in bad ones (use debt).

Now suddenly with Trump, stimulus during a run that he inherited from Obama while the economy was doing great and on the rise is OK to Republicans. That is DUMB.

If the US goes into another downturn (and one is inevitable) Trump is spending all the bullets now, during good times, to fix it and leaving no tools for the future gov't to fix it.

Maybe you hope you will be dead already. Or maybe you are like the person who uses credit cards to pay off credit cards and does not see the Wall you are going to crash into ahead. Yes indeed it feels good if you apply for and get 10 credit cards at once. You can go out and start spending and feel richer. But smart people understand that spending while piling up debt might make you feel good today but you are much worse off tomorrow.

I'm still not dumb, though.

 

[glenwo2]

I usually think these Now This videos are dumb but holy shit Trump looks sharp and on point in this one. No way anyone can question his clarity and single minded purpose and one must admire how clearly he explains why the wall is an acute emergency to the American public. Some say Reagan was the great communicator. Trump is playing 3D chess to Reagan's checkers.

What's with the Goofy background Piano music?

 

[MikeMcMann]

While I agree there is always a level of manipulation of the masses in politics, I would much rather have his in your face behavior, calling out the people who need to be called out than this silent attack on our rights, such as Obama cares 7 billion pages of bullshit they slipped through without a fight.

I'm aware he has the tendency to do shit that makes me cringe. Hell I don't know how his chief of staffs haven't rotated in and out every other week. But Godamnit it's what I like about him in the long run.

I'm also totally on board with the Rock running for president. More for his presence than any kind of crazy great campaign promise he might have. So there is that.

Trump is dangerous. Flat out. He asks his supporters for devotion if not flat out worship and he gets it.

Its as close to 'Dear Leader' type worship status as we have seen in the West.

He tells them to not believe what they see or hear and only to believe what he tells them and they do. Earlier today I posted a thread where Trump claims to be 6'3" and his doctor lies for him saying he is. We can clearly show via evidence via others known to be 6'3" (Jeb Bush, etc) that he has stood with that he is not. He is about 6'1". Nothing wrong with that height but with all things Trump you have to lie and boost everything up.

In that thread I had Trumptards (and one aggressively so) saying 'what we see with Trump beside Jeb Bush and others does not matter. Trump says he is 6'3" and why would he lie. they are ignoring what they see. They don't care what the truth is. they just blindly accept what Trump says.

that is not good. No one should be so blindly devoted to any politician. that what leads people to say Dear Leader does not poop and to believe it.

Despite all the Russians convictions and guilty pleas in his campaign Trump can say to true believers 'the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security and NSA are all wrong and need to go back to school', and they will buy that. All of them must be wrong because Trump cannot be.

That is dangerously stupid and needs to be called out.

 

[OnionKnight86]

Midwest 10's would at least be actual Women and not crossdressers or Men identifying as Women and vice versa.

So LA men are better looking than Midwest 10's?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Welcome to your new American dictatorship

Also, i just checked the mobile site for his official propaganda network Fox "News" and they have an AOC/Amazon story running top of the page above the "national emergency" story

F(ox)AKE NEWS!

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I still don't like this for the brutal over reach of power and bypassing checks and balance: but AP article on it has a silver lining

2.5 Billion is coming from defense department counter drug money
3.6 Billion from money for military construction projects
So the source of the funding is at least accurate

Having the wall funded from a slice of the massively bloated defense portion of the budget (without increasing that portion) has always ever been the only way I was ok with the idea of Trump's wall. All that money isn't doing us much good anyway and is just a waste, at least using some for a border wall will have some slight positive effect for Americans

The wall will have a negligible impact. That money could be better used on infrastructure, disaster relief, or even social programs.

 

[Shoemaker]

I usually think these Now This videos are dumb but holy shit Trump looks sharp and on point in this one. No way anyone can question his clarity and single minded purpose and one must admire how clearly he explains why the wall is an acute emergency to the American public. Some say Reagan was the great communicator. Trump is playing 3D chess to Reagan's checkers.

hahaha

Donald Trump: "I've done a lot of wall."

 

[PHATV]

It's exactly a dictatorship making moves with no political pluralism the Constitution demands. I understand Congress gave up some of it's powers in emergency war power act and other things but this is too far and not applicable and worst of all open flood gates to more abuse by a president - this one next one whatever/

Gonna be fun when AOC gets in there and sends Delta force out to cap cattle and raid houses taking guns.

Nobody is taking guns. Totally different given you're talking about a birthright protected by the constitution here.

Just out of curiosity, did you feel the same and post the same verbiage ("exactly a dictatorship") whenever Obama enacted one of his many declarations of national emergencies in order to get what he wanted? What about his EOs, including DACA after saying many times in public and on camera he couldn't do such a thing without congress, that's not the way our country works because (his own words) he "wasn't king"?

 

[Shoemaker]

The wall will have a negligible impact. That money could be better used on infrastructure, disaster relief, or even social programs.

A nation emergency on infrastructure is something I could get more behind, but even then I don't think other routes have been exhausted. No one has really put forward an honest effort. Next politician that is actually serious about infrastructure is going to have to have a pretty damning gaffe to lose my vote.

 

[hillelslovak87]

What's with the Goofy background Piano music?

The goofy piano music was there to emphasize the goody man giving the goofy speech like a 13 year old girl.

 

[Seano]

Imagine getting herded like sheep, stripped of your God given rights and cheering it all on

What is this in reference to?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

What are you talking about? Congress gave POTUS power to do this under National Emergencies Act. POTUS declaring National Emergencies is not a new thing. A lot of you just don't like it because it is President Trump.

"I really want to do this because I promised my base, and they might defect if I don't come through, even though it was supposed to be Mexico that paid" is not a valid national emergency.