Economy The [Wall / Government Shutdown] Megathread

Would you approve of Trump using emergency powers to build his wall?


  • Total voters
    92
  • Poll closed .
The slimy left want to hold Trump to exact pre-Admin wording he said about building a wall. Yeah, the slimy left that oppose Trump at every single move that he makes, even if it was for giving free coffee for the homeless.

Fact is he's trying to get the wall done - the same wall prior administrations said we need, even Dem ones.


 
Believe me, everything will be checked from now on. Anything less and Democrats will compromise their position for the 2020 election. They will put that particular election even above national interests, and perhaps it will be wise for them to do so, in long-term thinking.

Compromise will be deemed a loss of face at this point.

You're saying what you're saying as if you are arguing with an American Trump supporter. Let me remind you that you're talking to, in fact, a foreigner, who has no particular investment in Trump. A large part of what you are saying I have already acknowledged. I leave the bickering and condemnation of Trump's tactics and his voters, to the Americans, there's plenty enough of it as it is. It doesn't get us anywhere, I prefer to talk about the "meat and potatoes" rather than decrying something that will continue to be there, and will always be there, the tribalism of politics.

In general, people on this forum need to understand that not everything needs to be an argument.



I have to say that's a new one. In all my time on such forums, nobody has ever accused me of being "emotional", considering that I rarely if ever refer to the other person during a debate. I have no need for that, I just stick to addressing the points that the other guy is making, without worrying about their emotional state, which I can only hope that they can keep in check when going through the process of a meaningless argument on the internet.

You're attributing all of these statements to me as if we are in some grand disagreement over something. The only thing that I have said in the post you decided to quote (of course, by only picking a single statement out of context), is that I dislike obstructionism, which I imagine is a rather generally held stance among independents. I'm observing America's descent into an era of obstructionism, and I am trying to detail why that has been happening, from my perspective, with Trump's wall serving as a mere sidenote.

Just because I want the president to be more effective in making changes, to represent the people, does not mean that I want them to have absolute, dictatorial powers. That's a ludicrous notion to take, from what I have been saying. From my own government, I understand the adverse consequences when the position of a president is "emasculated", and made purely ceremonial. It hurts democracy, it really does. The people need a "face" for politics, otherwise they lose interest (just see America's interest in politics beyond presidential elections).

For democracy, the position of a president must remain strong, not dictatorial, but strong.

And again with the "lack of understanding about the American system". Just give it up. I know the system, okay? Enough to debate about it on a general level at a MMA forum. It's not that complicated. You don't need to try convince others that I don't know my business. I have no need of doing such a thing for you, because I can have enough respect for you as a poster. We have no fight here, anyway, we barely have a disagreement about anything other than semantics and definitions, mostly because you're trying to pick apart statements that I've said, by zoning in on single statements instead of the overall message. I said the people's will, you said a portion of the people's will, give me a break.

Again, if there's an actual matter to disagree over, I can debate it. But this? This is just a waste of time.
I don't agree.

Trump is a unique beast who thrives on not compromising and who loves to be in a fight. He defines himself that way and has since prior to politics.

Trump is even confounding his own party and supporters due to wanting a 'no compromise' fight. In the face of Trump the Dem's and Repubs CAN STILL agree to partisan compromise today. YES EVEN TODAY. But even Mitch says he won't even take it before Trump as he knows he will shoot even him down. heck he shoots the Repubs down even after telling them to get a deal and indicating he will accept it.

Most parties will compromise on the more easy stuff in the middle (like ending the Shut down), it is only Trump who will not. But the tougher more partisan stuff, ya that will be blocked. And it should be unless you are elected with overwhelming support to push it thru. That is the intent of the system as designed.
 
<Lmaoo> that is awesome. I wish I had balls the size of trump. Wouldnt be wasting my life on sherdog that's for damn sure
It's easy to have balls when daddy gives you hundreds of millions of dollars to play with.
 


This date doesn’t look right??

Just completed.
 
Just make the Pentagon pay for this shit and be done with it
 


This date doesn’t look right??

Just completed.

The more interesting point is that Trump has never NOT had money to continue to build or repair the fence that was started under Bush then Obama. he has unused budget available all through 2018 of almost $1.5B to allocate to that and he can pick his design.

NO ONE WAS BLOCKING A FENCE.

He did not deploy that money because he did not want a fence (metal or other) and wanted a giant beautiful concrete wall along the lines of the Great Wall of China but taller and more grand. Trump is into edifices and statements.

So don't let anyone fool you that the fence is what he wanted and its an emergency. If it is an emergency then Trump needs to be held accountable for why he did not make it a top priority to deploy the ~$1.5B he has been sitting in that could have been already building key parts of that fence.
 
Just make the Pentagon pay for this shit and be done with it
They don't want to and that is clear. Trump retreated from "Mexico will pay for it' when they bitch slapped him and said no.

Then when Ann and Rush bitch slapped him he painted himself in a corner when he said he would declare an emergency and use Military Funds.

I support the Wall getting done with Military Funds. Its a better use than going to the Military Complex bloat. At least you get something even if over built. But I said as soon as he announced that, that the Military Complex won't support that. Trump will be just appeasing one side of his base (Wall) while pissing off another (Military Complex) and that won't bode well for him.

So now the Military side has bitch slapped him he is looking to grab the money from the Disaster Relief Funds. He sees less Repub voters in those hard hit areas, so fuckem.
 
I have stated something that is real. I have isolated the meat of the promise from what was a political slogan intended to win a race.

And this is where you're playing revisionist history. You "isolated" the meat of the promise? That's not what a promise is. That's rhetoric - the meat of an argument.

A promise is a promise. Trying to carve it down to "this is promise" and "that is non-promise" just means that there was no promise to begin with. The 2 pieces were linked and comprised the promise in its totality. And if one half wasn't meant to be taken literally then the entire promise is not meant to be taken literally.
 
They don't want to and that is clear. Trump retreated from "Mexico will pay for it' when they bitch slapped him and said no.

Then when Ann and Rush bitch slapped him he painted himself in a corner when he said he would declare an emergency and use Military Funds.

I support the Wall getting done with Military Funds. Its a better use than going to the Military Complex bloat. At least you get something even if over built. But I said as soon as he announced that, that the Military Complex won't support that. Trump will be just appeasing one side of his base (Wall) while pissing off another (Military Complex) and that won't bode well for him.

So now the Military side has bitch slapped him he is looking to grab the money from the Disaster Relief Funds. He sees less Repub voters in those hard hit areas, so fuckem.
Well yeah clearly if this was something that he were serious about he'd have pushed for full funding when Repubs controlled the house and Senate.

I'm just saying the dems should cave but require money from the Pentagon be shifted over to cover the wall.
 
And this is where you're playing revisionist history. You "isolated" the meat of the promise? That's not what a promise is. That's rhetoric - the meat of an argument.

A promise is a promise. Trying to carve it down to "this is promise" and "that is non-promise" just means that there was no promise to begin with. The 2 pieces were linked and comprised the promise in its totality. And if one half wasn't meant to be taken literally then the entire promise is not meant to be taken literally.

As I said upthread. It would be like Bernie and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigning on HealthCare for all Americans and when asked saying it won't cost American's one cent because Mexico is going to pay for it. And then TheGreatA says to anyone doubting them that it does not matter how it is paid for. The 'meat of their promise' is the HealthCare (which would be true) and therefore focusing on how it is paid for is just not important.
 
Well yeah clearly if this was something that he were serious about he'd have pushed for full funding when Repubs controlled the house and Senate.
I am not even saying that as that would still require new money.

There was already allocated money for the fence in the budget (~$1.5B) that he has not put to work. It is just sitting. He did not put it to work as he never wanted to spend on a metal fence. He wanted a giant concrete wall.

So he cannot now say a fence is an emergency without exposing his incompetence for why he was not building this 'emergency' fence with money just sitting there and ready. it completely exposes that he never saw it as an emergency prior.



I'm just saying the dems should cave but require money from the Pentagon be shifted over to cover the wall.
Yes agreed. If he can actually get the money from the Military budget, and not the Disaster Relief Funds, then i think the Dem's should just hold their noses and let him do it. Even if you argue the Wall is wasteful and inefficient, you at least get something more then you get with the bulk of the money thrown into the black hole of the military complex cronies.
 
As I said upthread. It would be like Bernie and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigning on HealthCare for all Americans and when asked saying it won't cost American's one cent because Mexico is going to pay for it. And then TheGreatA says to anyone doubting them that it does not matter how it is paid for. The 'meat of their promise' is the HealthCare (which would be true) and therefore focusing on how it is paid for is just not important.
No argument here. It's a shitty argument that tries to have it both way.

You cannot argue that the POTUS should accomplish exactly what he promised and simultaneously argue that the promise isn't meant literally.
 
I am not even saying that as that would still require new money.

There was already allocated money for the fence in the budget (~$1.5B) that he has not put to work. It is just sitting. He did not put it to work as he never wanted to spend on a metal fence. He wanted a giant concrete wall.

So he cannot now say a fence is an emergency without exposing his incompetence for why he was not building this 'emergency' fence with money just sitting there and ready. it completely exposes that he never saw it as an emergency prior.



Yes agreed. If he can actually get the money from the Military budget, and not the Disaster Relief Funds, then i think the Dem's should just hold their noses and let him do it. Even if you argue the Wall is wasteful and inefficient, you at least get something more then you get with the bulk of the money thrown into the black hole of the military complex cronies.
Yeah it's a complete theatrical performance by Trump that works as a political ploy to energize and motivate his base. This is why I won't be too upset if the Dems don't cave.

But they should hit him with "fine, if you think it's a national security issue then we'll agree to make the Pentagon will pay for it but no new funding"
 
I don't agree.

Trump is a unique beast who thrives on not compromising and who loves to be in a fight. He defines himself that way and has since prior to politics.

Trump is even confounding his own party and supporters due to wanting a 'no compromise' fight. In the face of Trump the Dem's and Repubs CAN STILL agree to partisan compromise today. YES EVEN TODAY. But even Mitch says he won't even take it before Trump as he knows he will shoot even him down. heck he shoots the Repubs down even after telling them to get a deal and indicating he will accept it.

Most parties will compromise on the more easy stuff in the middle (like ending the Shut down), it is only Trump who will not. But the tougher more partisan stuff, ya that will be blocked. And it should be unless you are elected with overwhelming support to push it thru. That is the intent of the system as designed.

Mike likes politicians who all get along and agree on ways to launch new wars and sell out the country. He'd prefer GW Bush, new wars, the patriot act, ECT. Trump is the "unique beast" trying to bring our troops home in Mike eyes.
 
Congress approves measure to ensure federal workers are paid retroactively after shutdown

The House of Representatives voted to approve a Senate-passed measure to ensure federal workers furloughed during the ongoing partial government shutdown are paid retroactively when the government reopens, sending the bill to President Trump’s desk.

The bill, unanimously passed by the Senate on Thursday, will ensure that federal workers are paid as soon as possible, once the now-21 day shutdown ends.

The president is expected to sign the bill, offering support for the more than 800,000 federal workers who have been forced to work without pay or were furloughed during the shutdown, which began last month.

The pressure on Washington to strike a deal intensified Friday when most workers missed their paychecks for the first time.

The president has blamed the shutdown on Democrats, and Democrats have blamed the shutdown on the president. Neither side appears willing to budge—and if the White House and congressional leaders cannot come to an agreement, Trump has vowed to “almost definitely” use his emergency powers to build the wall.

“Either we’ll win or make a compromise. I’m okay to make a compromise—compromise is in my vocabulary very strongly,” Trump said. “I think a compromise is a win for everybody, otherwise, I can declare a national emergency.”

The president has warned of an “invasion” and a “humanitarian crisis” at the southern border, as he continues to negotiate for $5.7 billion to fund border security and construction of a wall or barrier along the border.

Democrats, led by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., have vowed to block any sort of funding for the wall, accusing the president of having “manufactured” a crisis at the border.



>>> Well that's good at least for the 800,000+. {<shrug}
 
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I live in that shithole and have to deal with Liberal dimwits everyday.
you're STILL the dumbest biped on this forum. It's been months and nobody has displaced you.

I want to see a time lapse of how your line got so mushy between the ears.
 
Mike likes politicians who all get along and agree on ways to launch new wars and sell out the country. He'd prefer GW Bush, new wars, the patriot act, ECT. Trump is the "unique beast" trying to bring our troops home in Mike eyes.
Not sure if any of that word vomit made sense in your head before you wrote it down but is certainly makes no sense in context to anything i have written here.
 
Yes it is. We now know that $1 million small loan was complete bullshit. It was north of $60 million and his father stepped in on numerous occasions to bail him out and after inheriting his fathers empire he bankrupted it to the point no U.S bank would touch him. Just because you believed The Apprentice doesn’t mean everyone else has to.
Says some loser that spends his time sqwuaking on a mma forum.
It would be funny if it wasnt pathetic.
You guys are a joke.
 
Classic republican bullshit...try to discredit everyone that disagrees with you instead of arguing based on actual information, evidence, research, or facts.

Obviously because all of those support the democrats on this argument, and most arguments against this president. Republicans like the live in this fake world where facts are just a liberal conspiracy.
Not too keen in irony, are you?
 
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