The Vitamin Guide--Excellent Resource

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it is known fact in debating that one who brings up an argument is the one who must provide support and defend their argument... not the other way around..

take a debate class..


and you should really start reading and comprehending the points ppl bring up in here.. becuz obviously you're just rummaging thru posts looking for little trivial things to pick apart..

if u don't believe us, then fine.. nobody cares, we have nothing to prove becuz it is *already* proven.. if you have a different view, then YOU need to provide us with proof.


(and judging by how things are going, i'm predicting you'll totally ignore everything i, and everybody else has said and post something like "then provide this proof!")
 
Fighter ex said:
You are a true scholar, sire. Your post speaks for itself.

I just find it weird that you are asking for scientific proof, then bring up a misconception that shows you have a very little understanding of science.

As for posts speaking for themselves,

Fighter ex said:
On the recomandation of a traning partner of mine I recently started taking 3 teaspoons of extra virgin organic coconut oil daily to aid in weight loss. My friend used this while dropping from heavyweight to middleweight so I figured Id give it a shot. Im telling you now I have never used a supplement that gave me such a constant burts of energy. Its like having a good caffeine buzz without the jitters all day long. I just take a teaspoon out of the jar put it in a small glass bowl for 30 seconds to liquify it and drink it. It is a very cheap alternative to some of the high priced supps out there and it works better than anything Ive ever used. If anyone else has tried this please share your story also

You see I could post studies to prove you wrong, but there are numerous posted on here already, and I get the impression you couldn't even begin to grasp the methods and practices to verify such things. So I guess I could just post a supplement found in the original post, that you seem to have first hand knowledge in, but yet I guess it really doesn't work?

http://www.vitacost.com/Source-Naturals-Extra-Virgin-Coconut-Oil

I also find it odd that you ask for scientific proof, but choose supplements on the recommendation of a training partner.
 
Fighter ex said:
Well as I thought no one can produce a single conclusive test showing that any supplement has a positive effect on immune funtion or physical performance.
Get in your damn high chair and be prepared to be spoon fed:
  • One study demonstrated that daily supplementation with 5 g of creatine monohydrate increased the intracellular creatine and PCr content of quadriceps muscle in 17 human subjects. Those with the lowest initial total creatine content had the greatest increase. In addition, exercise enhanced creatine uptake in muscle. No adverse effects were reported [5].
  • Another study found that one week of creatine supplementation at 25 g/day enhanced muscular performance during repeated sets of bench press and jump squat exercise. Creatine supplementation appeared to allow the subjects to complete their workouts at a higher intensity. The researchers concluded that, over time, working at higher intensities may provide a more intense training stimulus and improved muscular adaptations [10].
  • Another study demonstrated that females receiving 4 days of high-dose creatine intake (20 g/day) followed by low-dose creatine intake (5 g/day) during 10 weeks of resistance training (3hours/week) increased muscle PCr concentrations by 6%. Also, maximal strength of the muscle groups trained increased by 20-25%, maximal intermittent exercise capacity of the arm flexors increased by 10-25% and fat-free mass increased by 60% [11].
  • A double-blind study provided 20 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days to qualified sprinters and jumpers who performed 45 seconds of continuous jumping and 60 seconds of continuous treadmill running. Supplementation enhanced performance in the jumping test by 7% for the first 15 seconds and 12% for the next 15 seconds, but there was no difference for the final 15 seconds. There was a 13% improvement in the time of intensive running to exhaustion [12].
  • Another double-blind study supplemented with 18.75 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days prior to high-intensity intermittent work to exhaustion, and then 2.25 g/day during testing. The workouts consisted of cycling to exhaustion using several protocols: (a) nonstop, (b) 60 seconds work/120 seconds rest, (c) 20 seconds work/40 seconds rest, and (d) 10 seconds work/20 seconds rest. Creatine supplementation significantly increased the total work time for all four protocols [13].
  • Another study tested male subjects performing two bouts of 30 second isokinetic cycling before and after ingesting 20 g creatine monohydrate daily for 5 days. Work production improved about 4%. Cumulative increases in both peak and total work production over the two exercise bouts were positively correlated with the increase in muscle creatine [14].
  • A 12-week placebo-controlled study of 19 weightlifters in their mid-twenties found that the creatine group could lift more weight and had greater increases in fat-free mass and muscle-fiber size than did the placebo group. The researchers thought that the creatine let the athletes who used it train harder [15].
And the references:

5. Harris RC, Soderlund K, Hultman E. Elevation of creatine in resting and exercised muscle of normal subjects by creatine supplementation. Clinical Science 83:367-374, 1992
10. Volek JS and others. Creatine supplementation enhances muscular performance during high-intensity resistance exercise. Journal of American Dietetic Association 97:765-770, 1997.
11. Vandenberghe K and others. Long-term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training. Journal of Applied Physiology 83:2055-2063, 1997.
12. Bosco C and others. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on jumping and running performance. International Journal of Sports Medicine 18:369-372, 1997.
13. Prevost MC, Nelson AG, Morris GS. Creatine supplementation enhances intermittent work performance. Research Quarterly for Exercise and Sport 68:233-240, 1997.
14. Casey A and others. Creatine ingestion favorably affects performance and muscle metabolism during maximal exercise in humans. American Journal of Physiology 14. 271(1):E31-E37, 1996.
15. Volek JS and others. Performance and muscle fiber adaptations to creatine supplementation and heavy resistance training. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 31:1147-1156, 1999

Now shut the hell up and take your creatine, or don't, and be weak and slow.

FYI: That took me 15 seconds to find. I'm sure if one was willing (read: YOU), one could find numerous up-to-date studies, if one was so inclined.
 
Well as I thought no one can produce a single conclusive test showing that any supplement has a positive effect on immune funtion or physical performance.

This assessment was also incorrect on it's foundation. Because no one is going to coddle you, doesn't mean people are not capable. And if you were able to interpret my response to your request, I'll simplify the notion I put into sattiric context:

There's no need to prove a ball is round, or that water is wet.

Prove to me oxygen keeps you alive. Show me a study that proves it. Show me a study that proves that the human body is powered by electricity. Such studies are arbitrary to find because of how the human system works. The body uses vitamins and minerals in it's mechanical functions. This has been established so long ago that it's not studied in-depth currently (you most-likely know this, hence your asking for that which is unlikely to be found and is only currently studied by conspiracy zealots). Thus, common sense dictates that where there is deficiency, there should be supplementation. Hence the existence of the supplement industry. As far as heightening performance, stimulants, creatine, even BCAA's, and other such things all have studies posted around here which you can find on your own.

If you don't want to look for what's right in front of you, no one should have to make you.
 
supersudo said:
it is known fact in debating that one who brings up an argument is the one who must provide support and defend their argument... not the other way around..

take a debate class..


and you should really start reading and comprehending the points ppl bring up in here.. becuz obviously you're just rummaging thru posts looking for little trivial things to pick apart..

if u don't believe us, then fine.. nobody cares, we have nothing to prove becuz it is *already* proven.. if you have a different view, then YOU need to provide us with proof.


(and judging by how things are going, i'm predicting you'll totally ignore everything i, and everybody else has said and post something like "then provide this proof!")
Speaking of ignoring things why don't you take a look at the very link YOU provided at the beginning of this thread. If you do a little searching on that site you will find exactly what Ive been saying all along. Which is, when it comes to the effects of various supplements, vitamins, minerals etc there are conflicting reports as to what they actually do for people. By they way I will be happy to take a debate class if you'd be willing to re enter a grade school spelling class.
 
King Kabuki said:
This assessment was also incorrect on it's foundation. Because no one is going to coddle you, doesn't mean people are not capable. And if you were able to interpret my response to your request, I'll simplify the notion I put into sattiric context:

There's no need to prove a ball is round, or that water is wet.

Prove to me oxygen keeps you alive. Show me a study that proves it. Show me a study that proves that the human body is powered by electricity. Such studies are arbitrary to find because of how the human system works. The body uses vitamins and minerals in it's mechanical functions. This has been established so long ago that it's not studied in-depth currently (you most-likely know this, hence your asking for that which is unlikely to be found and is only currently studied by conspiracy zealots). Thus, common sense dictates that where there is deficiency, there should be supplementation. Hence the existence of the supplement industry. As far as heightening performance, stimulants, creatine, even BCAA's, and other such things all have studies posted around here which you can find on your own.

If you don't want to look for what's right in front of you, no one should have to make you.
So the answer is No, you don't seem to beleive the validity of the studies I did provide but you produce none of your own. Thank you
 
BoxingFanNoMore said:
I just find it weird that you are asking for scientific proof, then bring up a misconception that shows you have a very little understanding of science.

As for posts speaking for themselves,



You see I could post studies to prove you wrong, but there are numerous posted on here already, and I get the impression you couldn't even begin to grasp the methods and practices to verify such things. So I guess I could just post a supplement found in the original post, that you seem to have first hand knowledge in, but yet I guess it really doesn't work?

http://www.vitacost.com/Source-Naturals-Extra-Virgin-Coconut-Oil

I also find it odd that you ask for scientific proof, but choose supplements on the recommendation of a training partner.
WOW you actually went back and read posts of mine from six months ago. I truly feel honored here. You must have a very exciting life. By the way coconut oil is actually a food and I would not call it a supplement. It is not something you buy in a pill form and hope you are actually getting what is advertised.
 
MikeMartial said:
Get in your damn high chair and be prepared to be spoon fed:
  • One study demonstrated that daily supplementation with 5 g of creatine monohydrate increased the intracellular creatine and PCr content of quadriceps muscle in 17 human subjects. Those with the lowest initial total creatine content had the greatest increase. In addition, exercise enhanced creatine uptake in muscle. No adverse effects were reported [5].
  • Another study found that one week of creatine supplementation at 25 g/day enhanced muscular performance during repeated sets of bench press and jump squat exercise. Creatine supplementation appeared to allow the subjects to complete their workouts at a higher intensity. The researchers concluded that, over time, working at higher intensities may provide a more intense training stimulus and improved muscular adaptations [10].
  • Another study demonstrated that females receiving 4 days of high-dose creatine intake (20 g/day) followed by low-dose creatine intake (5 g/day) during 10 weeks of resistance training (3hours/week) increased muscle PCr concentrations by 6%. Also, maximal strength of the muscle groups trained increased by 20-25%, maximal intermittent exercise capacity of the arm flexors increased by 10-25% and fat-free mass increased by 60% [11].
  • A double-blind study provided 20 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days to qualified sprinters and jumpers who performed 45 seconds of continuous jumping and 60 seconds of continuous treadmill running. Supplementation enhanced performance in the jumping test by 7% for the first 15 seconds and 12% for the next 15 seconds, but there was no difference for the final 15 seconds. There was a 13% improvement in the time of intensive running to exhaustion [12].
  • Another double-blind study supplemented with 18.75 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days prior to high-intensity intermittent work to exhaustion, and then 2.25 g/day during testing. The workouts consisted of cycling to exhaustion using several protocols: (a) nonstop, (b) 60 seconds work/120 seconds rest, (c) 20 seconds work/40 seconds rest, and (d) 10 seconds work/20 seconds rest. Creatine supplementation significantly increased the total work time for all four protocols [13].
  • Another study tested male subjects performing two bouts of 30 second isokinetic cycling before and after ingesting 20 g creatine monohydrate daily for 5 days. Work production improved about 4%. Cumulative increases in both peak and total work production over the two exercise bouts were positively correlated with the increase in muscle creatine [14].
  • A 12-week placebo-controlled study of 19 weightlifters in their mid-twenties found that the creatine group could lift more weight and had greater increases in fat-free mass and muscle-fiber size than did the placebo group. The researchers thought that the creatine let the athletes who used it train harder [15].
And the references:

5. Harris RC, Soderlund K, Hultman E. Elevation of creatine in resting and exercised muscle of normal subjects by creatine supplementation. Clinical Science 83:367-374, 1992
10. Volek JS and others. Creatine supplementation enhances muscular performance during high-intensity resistance exercise. Journal of American Dietetic Association 97:765-770, 1997.
11. Vandenberghe K and others. Long-term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training. Journal of Applied Physiology 83:2055-2063, 1997.
12. Bosco C and others. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on jumping and running performance. International Journal of Sports Medicine 18:369-372, 1997.
13. Prevost MC, Nelson AG, Morris GS. Creatine supplementation enhances intermittent work performance. Research Quarterly for Exercise and Sport 68:233-240, 1997.
14. Casey A and others. Creatine ingestion favorably affects performance and muscle metabolism during maximal exercise in humans. American Journal of Physiology 14. 271(1):E31-E37, 1996.
15. Volek JS and others. Performance and muscle fiber adaptations to creatine supplementation and heavy resistance training. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 31:1147-1156, 1999

Now shut the hell up and take your creatine, or don't, and be weak and slow.

FYI: That took me 15 seconds to find. I'm sure if one was willing (read: YOU), one could find numerous up-to-date studies, if one was so inclined.
I wonder if KK will critique the studies you have provided and tell us why they are not valid.
 
lol!! FIGHTER EX. YOU ARE A FUNNY DUDE. YOU MAKE NO SENSE AND MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE A COMPLETE FOOL. AND DONT GET ME WRONG. IM NOT CALLING YOU A FOOL. YOU ARE EASILY MAKING YOURSELF LOOK LIKE ONE WITHOUT GETTING CALLED IT.
 
Fighter ex - You provided not one single study. All you did was elude to articles you read that referenced studies. You didn't post the actual study, or even the abstract. And you refuse to use the search function to find what has already been provided.

This speaks volumes of your worth. Have a good day.

P.S. - Coconut Oil that comes in pill form is coconut oil. Your argument that because it's not in a pill it ceases to be a supplement is merely a baseless argument of semantics.
 
Fighter ex said:
Which is, when it comes to the effects of various supplements, vitamins, minerals etc there are conflicting reports as to what they actually do for people.

i've looked thru nearly everything on that site in the past. you DO know that certain vitamins don't do only 1 thing in ur body right?.. an example would be that vitamin A is good for the eyes, but it also regulates the oil glands in your skin

accutane (the acne drug) is a modified version of vitamin A and that's why it dries out your skin so badly and makes your night vision a lot worse... also, too much Vitamin A (just like accutane) causes birth defects if taken during pregnancy.. and bcuz accutane is modified vitamin A and not natural, it fucks up ur liver..

u want a source? read this please.. and don't tell me this isn't a reputable source, because you can find this info everywhere
http://www.drugs.com/accutane.html
 
King Kabuki said:
Fighter ex - You provided not one single study. All you did was elude to articles you read that referenced studies. You didn't post the actual study, or even the abstract. And you refuse to use the search function to find what has already been provided.

This speaks volumes of your worth. Have a good day.

P.S. - Coconut Oil that comes in pill form is coconut oil. Your argument that because it's not in a pill it ceases to be a supplement is merely a baseless argument of semantics.


KK.. i think this guy is either a troll.. or really, really thick-headed... it's probably both..
 
You can't speak sense into someone that ignorant and uneducated. It's like kicking a dead horse.
 
STWACOACH said:
You can't speak sense into someone that ignorant and uneducated. It's like kicking a dead horse.

what amazes me the most is if this guy is serious.. then i have never met or talked to anyone so horrendously dumb in my life.... which is why i seriously think he's just trolling and trying to get us all riled up..:rolleyes:
 
Yup and it worked on a few of you lol. let ignorant people be ignorant, death, disease, or other things usualy have a way of sorting them out.
 
Fighter ex said:
By the way coconut oil is actually a food and I would not call it a supplement. It is not something you buy in a pill form and hope you are actually getting what is advertised.

Haha, looks like you already did

Fighter ex said:
Im telling you now I have never used a supplement that gave me such a constant burts of energy.

Figher ex said:
It is a very cheap alternative to some of the high priced supps out there and it works better than anything Ive ever used.

Then Why in the hell are you talking about and comparing it to supplements than?

So let me get this straight, you are getting your Extra Virgin Organic Coconut Oil fresh from the flesh of coconuts than? That happen to come in jars? That must be why whey works because it is in a jar and not a pill.:redface:
 
Wait....peanut butter comes in jars! I'm so cornfused....Fuck it. I'm going back to my old ways of drinking only shakes containing wheat grass and my own urine.
 
STWACOACH said:
You can't speak sense into someone that ignorant and uneducated. It's like kicking a dead horse.
Are you done or can we expect some more brillant words from you?
 
BoxingFanNoMore said:
Haha, looks like you already did





Then Why in the hell are you talking about and comparing it to supplements than?

So let me get this straight, you are getting your Extra Virgin Organic Coconut Oil fresh from the flesh of coconuts than? That happen to come in jars? That must be why whey works because it is in a jar and not a pill.:redface:
hmmmm well yes Ive used lots of supplements in the past and did say that Coconut oil was better then any of them. Whats your point? I again have to compliment you on taking the time to go through my old posts (laughing)
 
King Kabuki said:
Fighter ex - You provided not one single study. All you did was elude to articles you read that referenced studies. You didn't post the actual study, or even the abstract. And you refuse to use the search function to find what has already been provided.

This speaks volumes of your worth. Have a good day.

P.S. - Coconut Oil that comes in pill form is coconut oil. Your argument that because it's not in a pill it ceases to be a supplement is merely a baseless argument of semantics.
You get coconut oil in a jar, it looks like coconut it smells like coconut and it taste like coconut. That could be a good indicator that its real. When you get a multi vitamin do you get your vitamin A from the Vitamin A tree? Do you know what it taste or smells like?
 
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