The USA totally lost control of the HW Division while I wasn't paying attention.

The Accuser said:
HW was never an American thing. Besides Stipe the greatest in no particular order:

Fedor
Overeem
Werdum
Nog
Aspinall
Cain

HW might even be considered the least American division.
Click to expand...
Cain is American, but I would put JDS over him.
 
In your haste to hate the USA you clearly lost all senses and failed to include the name and country of the man that owns every one of those foreigners you listed.

Dana White - USA

Here is a tissue to wipe those tears 😘
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
If you're a big athletic guy in the UK or France, you're probably playing rugby. If you're a big athletic guy in Russia, you're probably playing basketball or hockey. Etc etc.
Click to expand...

Eh, those sports aren't as dominant in those countries as the major U.S. sports are in the U.S. and a lot of hockey players would have to cut to middleweight. Australia has a much better case with rugby and Australian football.
 
ChosenOne said:
You are really making his point.

Big athletic guys have options and in the US they have more options than any where else, to make far more money on an easier path.
Click to expand...

Yeah I am making that point because its a totally valid one.

The "big athletic guys in America" narrative is utterly pathetic and simply an insight into the American mindset. The ultimate irony of it all is that in the 00s and early 10s MMA ITSELF was used as an excuse for why American dominance in boxing was slipping. Ie "we care more about MMA now" etc etc.

America has almost a quarter of HW boxers on the planet and they're shit. American HWs in MMA are now also shit. Most of the MVPs in the NBA are not American. America sucks at rugby. America is not the best at hockey. But keep clinging to a single sports league in a sport no other country plays, that has like 1500 people in it, the only league where you can make good money in that sport, a league that has probably the shortest average career of any sports leagues, a league that is almost entirely black meaning theres a remaining population of 300+ million people left in America who are not black and arent in the NFL or the NBA, but also arent in boxing or MMA. Where are they?

Btw, why is it when you guys make this excuse for failure at HW, you conveniently leave out that America has no high paying team sports leagues for any athletes who are MW sized and lower? most of those guys in other countries obviously go to soccer. So where do your guys go? why arent they dominating combat sports when they have no other sport to go to?
 
Plissken said:
Eh, those sports aren't as dominant in those countries as the major U.S. sports are in the U.S. and a lot of hockey players would have to cut to middleweight. Australia has a much better case with rugby and Australian football.
Click to expand...

Where are all the American athletes who arent HWs?

Where are all the American athletes who arent black? (thats over 300 million people lol)

Where are the 99% of American athletes who played football in college but never made it to the NFL?
 
You've gotta love the American psyche though. 330 million people, and having to make excuses for why you now suck in an American sports league that pre 2010 had run less than 20 events outside of the US ever.

Imagine the rest of the world starts taking American football seriously in the future and the NFL becomes globalised too. The sheer cope will be glorious. Wonder which sport all these mythical American bogeymen will allegedly be hiding in then?
 
Top ten HWs in MMA

1/1/24

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Brazil: 1
Europe & Russia: 5
USA: 3

1/1/23

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Europe & Russia: 5
Suriname: 1
USA: 3

1/1/22

Brazil: 2
Cameroon: 1
Europe & Russia: 4
Suriname: 1
USA: 2

1/1/21

Brazil: 2
Cameroon: 1
Europe & Russia: 3
Suriname: 1
USA: 3

1/1/20

Brazil: 1
Cameroon: 1
Europe & Russia: 2
Suriname: 1
USA: 5

1/1/19

Brazil: 2
Cameroon: 1
Europe & Russia: 2
USA: 5

1/1/18

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Brazil: 2
Cameroon: 1
Europe & Russia: 3
USA: 3

1/1/17

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Brazil: 2
Europe & Russia: 2
USA: 5

1/1/16

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Brazil: 2
Europe & Russia: 2
USA: 5

1/1/15

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Brazil: 3
Europe & Russia: 2
USA: 4

1/1/14

Australia & New Zealand: 1
Brazil: 3
Europe & Russia: 1
USA: 5

1/1/10

Brazil: 3
Europe & Russia: 1
USA: 6


Australia & New Zealand have stayed fairly constant. They punch above their weight in sport, with their comparatively small populations.
Brazil and the USA have declined.
Europe & Russia have risen.
You now also get the odd top ten HW from minor countries from other areas.
China is still nowhere, although look at them go in the Olympics! People have been saying expect a wave of high-level Chinese fighters for a few years. We'll see if they arrive in HW. There is Big Bang Zhang in boxing.

1000.png


There were a couple of brief exceptions (Rutten and Arlovski). But apart from those, until 2021 the HW belt was always in US or Brazilian hands (except when it was vacant of course). Since then Ngannou and Gane and now this situation with Jones and people generally considering Aspinall the real champ. And Jones is 37 and says he's retiring after the clown fight with Stipe. If that even happens. Blaydes isn't likely to win the belt, so I couldn't even name the next US champion. Barring a major upset.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
Yeah I am making that point because its a totally valid one.

The "big athletic guys in America" narrative is utterly pathetic and simply an insight into the American mindset. The ultimate irony of it all is that in the 00s and early 10s MMA ITSELF was used as an excuse for why American dominance in boxing was slipping. Ie "we care more about MMA now" etc etc.

America has almost a quarter of HW boxers on the planet and they're shit. American HWs in MMA are now also shit. Most of the MVPs in the NBA are not American. America sucks at rugby. America is not the best at hockey. But keep clinging to a single sports league in a sport no other country plays, that has like 1500 people in it, the only league where you can make good money in that sport, a league that has probably the shortest average career of any sports leagues, a league that is almost entirely black meaning theres a remaining population of 300+ million people left in America who are not black and arent in the NFL or the NBA, but also arent in boxing or MMA. Where are they?

Btw, why is it when you guys make this excuse for failure at HW, you conveniently leave out that America has no high paying team sports leagues for any athletes who are MW sized and lower? most of those guys in other countries obviously go to soccer. So where do your guys go? why arent they dominating combat sports when they have no other sport to go to?
Click to expand...
I think the "mindset" exposed is yours.

You seem incapable of understanding why SPLITTING top talent weakens pools. And you really do not understand US based MMA which has been primarily a vehicle for wrestlers. It is only recently you have even seen any decent numbers of top athletes from other MMA arts trying to transition to MMA in their prime years. Prior it was only really wrestlers doing so.

To you it is a mystery why Cuba and DOmincan Republic can field top baseball players but field so few top Basketball, Football, Boxers and MMA. YOu think that proves them pathetic using your logic. And that is on you and your struggles with comprehension.

The FACT is that coming out of highschool almost ALL the top big man athletes will stream to Basketball, Baseball, Football if they are good enough to cut it, or even close.

What that leaves in the US is the most tier 2 and tier 3 athletes who cannot make it in those sports focusing on perceived 'lessor' sports, with tougher roads and more risk.
 
Last edited:
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ChosenOne said:
I think the "mindset" exposed is yours.

You seem incapable of understanding why SPLITTING top talent weakens pools. And you really do not understand US based MMA which has been primarily a vehicle for wrestlers. It is only recently you have even seen any decent numbers of top athletes from other MMA arts trying to transition to MMA in their prime years. Prior it was only really wrestlers doing so.

To you it is a mystery why Cuba and DOmincan Republic can field top baseball players but field so few top Baseball, Football, Boxers and MMA. YOu think that proves them pathetic using your logic. And that is on you and your struggles with comprehension.

The FACT is that coming out of highschool almost ALL the top big man athletes will stream to Basketball, Baseball, Football if they are good enough to cut it, or even close.

What that leaves in the US is the most tier 2 and tier 3 athletes who cannot make it in those sports focusing on perceived 'lessor' sports, with tougher roads and more risk.
Click to expand...

The pool is 330 million people. Making excuses for being pushed to the sidelines IN YOUR OWN SPORTS LEAGUE is ridiculous.

You have brushed aside multiple factors I brought up too. The NFL has less than 2000 players in it at any one time. The NBA has around 500-600 players with a not insignificant percentage of those players not being American. So essentially two sports leagues with a combined roster comparable to like two high schools are whats being used as an excuse for why a country of 330 million people cant produce a few dozen good fighters a HW/LHW.

Not only that, but the average length of an NFL career is just over 3 years. And where do you make money outside of the NFL as a football player? go play Canadian football? USFL?what happens to all these guys that get dropped from the NFL and all these college players that never made it?

Now lets add the racial element, even though it makes some people uncomfortable, the majority of American players in the NFL and NBA are black, so they are actually drawn from a pool of around only 40 million people (less than Spain for example) . So you've got another 290 million or so people in America (twice the population of Russia) that get maybe a few hundred roster spots in the NFL and NBA combined. Again....why cant America produce good fighters from this gigantic pool?

Do you think the UK for example is prioritizing MMA more so than Americans do and that Aspinall is some kind of premium super "A level athlete" compared to the guys they put into rugby? how is that country able to be elite in two types of rugby, have a UFC HW champ, multiple top HW boxers and one of the strongest men in the world simultaneously while having six times less people than America?

And i'm gonna reiterate the soccer thing too. We keep making these "our best HW athletes" excuses but the majority of potential athletic talent falls roughly between BW and WW in MMA terms. America has NO sports league that caters to those people. Whereas a massive amount of athletes in that size range in other countries go to soccer, the biggest sport in the world. So using the same logic shouldnt that mean America should be dominating boxing and MMA in those weight classes? so why dont they?

TL;DR - what really happened is MMA blew up globally which caused the talent pool to become bigger and more diverse. The UFC became mainstream in America then moved on to expanding internationally and casting its net wider when signing talent. The rest of the world caught up, thats all.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
. We keep making these "our best HW athletes" excuses but the majority of potential athletic talent falls roughly between BW and WW in MMA terms. America has NO sports league that caters to those people.
Click to expand...
You're forgetting what some claim is "the" American sport: baseball. Plenty of MLB players are around 6' tall and could cut to WW and maybe LW in some cases if they were in MMA.
 
mkt said:
You're forgetting what some claim is "the" American sport: baseball. Plenty of MLB players are around 6' tall and could cut to WW and maybe LW in some cases if they were in MMA.
Click to expand...

So we're claiming baseball players would dominate MMA now? what is this? The Warriors?
 
ChosenOne said:
I think the "mindset" exposed is yours.

You seem incapable of understanding why SPLITTING top talent weakens pools. And you really do not understand US based MMA which has been primarily a vehicle for wrestlers. It is only recently you have even seen any decent numbers of top athletes from other MMA arts trying to transition to MMA in their prime years. Prior it was only really wrestlers doing so.

To you it is a mystery why Cuba and DOmincan Republic can field top baseball players but field so few top Baseball, Football, Boxers and MMA. YOu think that proves them pathetic using your logic. And that is on you and your struggles with comprehension.

The FACT is that coming out of highschool almost ALL the top big man athletes will stream to Basketball, Baseball, Football if they are good enough to cut it, or even close.

What that leaves in the US is the most tier 2 and tier 3 athletes who cannot make it in those sports focusing on perceived 'lessor' sports, with tougher roads and more risk.
Click to expand...
This is especially true now with NIL. You can make big money even in high school in the major sports if you're really good and well known.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
The pool is 330 million people. Making excuses for being pushed to the sidelines IN YOUR OWN SPORTS LEAGUE is ridiculous.

You have brushed aside multiple factors I brought up too. The NFL has less than 2000 players in it at any one time. The NBA has around 500-600 players with a not insignificant percentage of those players not being American. So essentially two sports leagues with a combined roster comparable to like two high schools are whats being used as an excuse for why a country of 330 million people cant produce a few dozen good fighters a HW/LHW.

Not only that, but the average length of an NFL career is just over 3 years. And where do you make money outside of the NFL as a football player? go play Canadian football? USFL?what happens to all these guys that get dropped from the NFL and all these college players that never made it?

Now lets add the racial element, even though it makes some people uncomfortable, the majority of American players in the NFL and NBA are black, so they are actually drawn from a pool of around only 40 million people (less than Spain for example) . So you've got another 290 million or so people in America (twice the population of Russia) that get maybe a few hundred roster spots in the NFL and NBA combined. Again....why cant America produce good fighters from this gigantic pool?

Do you think the UK for example is prioritizing MMA more so than Americans do and that Aspinall is some kind of premium super "A level athlete" compared to the guys they put into rugby? how is that country able to be elite in two types of rugby, have a UFC HW champ, multiple top HW boxers and one of the strongest men in the world simultaneously while having six times less people than America?

And i'm gonna reiterate the soccer thing too. We keep making these "our best HW athletes" excuses but the majority of potential athletic talent falls roughly between BW and WW in MMA terms. America has NO sports league that caters to those people. Whereas a massive amount of athletes in that size range in other countries go to soccer, the biggest sport in the world. So using the same logic shouldnt that mean America should be dominating boxing and MMA in those weight classes? so why dont they?

TL;DR - what really happened is MMA blew up globally which caused the talent pool to become bigger and more diverse. The UFC became mainstream in America then moved on to expanding internationally and casting its net wider when signing talent. The rest of the world caught up, thats all.
Click to expand...
Your ignorance is astounding.

Having 330 Million does not mean you can pick thru the sports the US does not dominate and say they should also dominate those too.

I will explain again, that the reason Cubans and Dominicans do so well in Baseball and Canadians in hockey, Brazilians in soccer, and so on and so on, is the vast, VAST majority of the young top athletes will stream to that sport from the youngest ages.

So you have to REMOVE from the pool competing for the more 'fringe sports' in those countries the most of the top athletic kids.

THAT MATTERS and it matters a lot, as top athletes competing against one another raises the level of everyone.

So in the US you FIRST remove all the top athletic kids, who will stream to Baseball, Basketball, and Football, and then you have what is left. A small amount of top athletes and then mostly the ranks are made up of B level and C level US athletes who could not cut in the top 3 major league areas.

So you reply 'but why do those lesser US athletes not compete well with the TOP athletes coming from other countries' and you remain ignorant, as you are so focused on hating you simply do not want an answer that does not feed it.
 
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TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
So we're claiming baseball players would dominate MMA now? what is this? The Warriors?
Click to expand...

Wow, completely asinine comment outside the Warriors (great movie) reference. And yes, high-level baseball are very good athletes who are also required to master specific skills, similar to soccer. I know a young guy trying to get into the MLB. I'd take him over any 22-year old you find on the street to be a great MMA fighter if you gave both 2-3 years of top quality MMA training. He's a great athlete who already has a strong mental game, knows how to listen to coaches and practice endlessly to master skills.
 
Next posts from TeenageMutantLesnarTrutle,

- Why can't the US also dominate soccer, pathetic...
- Why can't US also dominate cricket, pathetic...
- Why can't the US also dominate Rugby, pathetic...

As he continues his ignorance and inability to understand, ALL countries have 'focus sports' where the top young athletes tend to stream sucking up the vast, vast majority of their top athletes from the earliest ages, leaving the sports that tend to be more on the fringe in their markets to grow largely with a lower tier of athletes, overall.
 
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