The USA totally lost control of the HW Division while I wasn't paying attention.

[loisestrad]

The greatest thing about the olympics (and sports in general) is that we aways have the opportunity to root for our countries and for a minute get to believe that we're the greatest.

As I'm speaking, Denmark absolutely demolished Germany to win the olympic gold medal in handball.

Handball? Who gives a fuck, right?

Football, who gives a fuck, right?

Fingerball? Legball? Let's invent a different category, so that every single country can shine.


We all choose our little disciplines in which to shine. we're all great countries.

In my opinion, Spain is the greatest of all, as they prevailed in the most prominent sport on earth twice in a matter of months.

 

[Dr Fong]

Our volleyball team got smoked by Italy homeslice.

They did ok though

Bball will tie us at 40

US will indeed tie gold medals and thus win the medal tally because of more silver.

But it's a hollow, artificial victory because Hong Kong is counted separately (and, no, this isn't the same thing as Taiwan).

China, in reality, still beat your asses.

On the other hand, if you wanted to add in all your de facto colonies like the UK, Australia, Germany, Japan etc. to your gold medal tally, then that would probably be fair too.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

The same thing is happening in basketball. The USA is not dominating other nations like it used to. Other countries are catching up.

My pet theory is that the de dollarizarion and globalization that is occurring is chipping away at our dominance.

Even in the Olympics the USA would smack around other teams in basketball and now we almost lost to both France and Serbia. Once the older players retire it’s going to be bad for the US. The next few Olympic golds will be won by other countries in basketball.

I think there is a sort of cap or ceiling to talent in sports. There will still be gains at the highest end but much smaller once athletes start hitting that ceiling.

I think in the world now, there's so much access to footage and training techniques that it's helped a lot of other countries catch up.

You say basketball because you're American, I'll use hockey because I'm Canadian. Same reality applies VS lesser teams that historically we'd trounce. Our skills have hit a relative plateau at that ceiling.

Source? Just my pov

 

[The Accuser]

Huh? Perhaps not in this current era, but historically:

Randy
Mir
Ricco
Timmeh
Bork
Cain
Barnett
Carwin
DC
Stipe

Historical greats, not every single champ ever.

 

[The Accuser]

I don't care about the nationality thing. I care about Jones winning the belt then squatting on it refusing to fight anyone except the washed ghost of what used to be Stipe while Aspinall is out there defending a fucking interim belt. It's one of the most idiotically baffling things I've seen the UFC do. The obviously correct call here was to tell Jones to fight Aspinall or get stripped.

Aspinall is the real champ anyway.
Jones didn‘t win it from a former champ any more than Tom did.

 

[VAfan]

you'd figure they'd be good at HW, with the obesity problem and all.

 

[TheTickG]

Jones is the paperest of paper champions. Stipe is beyond irrelevant until and unless he proves otherwise, which he won't. So here's your top ten:

Jon Jones - USA
Tom Aspinall (the People's Champ) - UK
Ciryl Gane - France
Alexander Volkov - Russia
Sergei Pavlovich - Russia

Curtis Blaydes - USA
Stipe Miocic - USA
Jailton Almeida - Brazil
Marcin Tybura - Poland
Serghei Spivac - Moldova

Excluding Jones and Stipe:

Europe and Russia: 6
Brazil: 1
USA: 1

The USA lost control of HW boxing a while ago, and China is currently ahead in the Olympics as well. Is this just a phase in MMA or has the baton also been passed?

Just like HW Sean Strickland said, "until you pay UFC fighters NFL money the American heavyweights something something something."

 

[Deleted member 585708]

The heavyweight division in general is going to need a ton of work putting into it to bulk it out a bit, even on the regionals there just isn't that huge depth of talent.

Then the jump from fighting cans on the regionals, to lower level UFC fighters, to the ranked guys is huge and then huge again.

 

[mattemate]

If you're a big athletic guy living in the states, you are probably playing football or maybe basketball..

Paying a gym to train you and then going into a cage for pennies in hopes you can make it to the UFC, and once you're there you are going to have to beat the top 10 guys in the world in order to make a comfortable living. It isn't a very appealing proposition..

Straight up. A former All-Pro offensive lineman from the Houston Texans used to train at my gym. This was AFTER leaving the NFL. The power and athleticism of these guys is something most people just can't really comprehend. He would go easy in training on people, but he was a fucking nightmare even though he was just beginning to develop his skills.
Are you telling me an animal like Stephen Neal couldn't be a HW champ? Come on. He just made WAYYYY more money as a top OL in the NFL.

 

[AmericanMMA]

US will indeed tie gold medals and thus win the medal tally because of more silver.

But it's a hollow, artificial victory because Hong Kong is counted separately (and, no, this isn't the same thing as Taiwan).

China, in reality, still beat your asses.

On the other hand, if you wanted to add in all your de facto colonies like the UK, Australia, Germany, Japan etc. to your gold medal tally, then that would probably be fair too.

 

[KO Shotz]

The HW division has always been Fedor's.

 

[JKS]

I think it's always been like this. HW is a narrow division and has never been dominated by a particular country. US HW's maybe had 3-4 guys in the top 10 at a time.

 

[HHJ]

Lol


Things.....change?

 

[joy2day]

The next few Olympic golds will be won by other countries in basketball.

No they won't. I think your slippery slope theory falls apart in terms of globalization changing basketball. Teams have been playing some close games with the USA for a good while now; this is far from a first.

Other nations do well because there are a lot of NBA players on them that are from those nations, and plus the members have mostly (other than the NBA players) played together longer than the US dream teams, which are comprised of players that are the best and mostly don't play together. It actually takes a while to sync as a team.

The US will always have the best players because they are a concentrated group of the best in the world. It will be a long time if ever before other countries can sport the kind of superstar depth that the USA can in basketball.

As far as MMA, the US has never really dominated, so this is nothing new. There were times when there were multiple American UFC champs, but that was because top fighters were overseas fighting in Japan. Even the early UFCs- Gracie, Oleg, Ruas, etc.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

If you're a big athletic guy living in the states, you are probably playing football or maybe basketball..

Paying a gym to train you and then going into a cage for pennies in hopes you can make it to the UFC, and once you're there you are going to have to beat the top 10 guys in the world in order to make a comfortable living. It isn't a very appealing proposition..

even if you don't make it in the NFL or NBA, they're not going to choose MMA when there are normal jobs that have way better security and benefits than MMA. MMA has always been for American wrestlers to do something after their amateur career and guys who have nothing to lose.

 

[ChosenOne]

If you're a big athletic guy in the UK or France, you're probably playing rugby. If you're a big athletic guy in Russia, you're probably playing basketball or hockey. Etc etc.

You are really making his point.

Big athletic guys have options and in the US they have more options than any where else, to make far more money on an easier path.

That is why the vast bulk of top MMA fighters, at all sizes came mostly from Wrestling. It is not, because of the gullible belief, that wrestling is just the ideal MMA base, and is because the mass amount of kids who specialized in wrestling never used to have a clear 'Pro' path to make money. Most ended up teaching or coaching.

 

[don't ask]

I'm more concerned with the UFC losing control of the HW division because of their bullshit.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

I don't care about the nationality thing. I care about Jones winning the belt then squatting on it refusing to fight anyone except the washed ghost of what used to be Stipe while Aspinall is out there defending a fucking interim belt. It's one of the most idiotically baffling things I've seen the UFC do. The obviously correct call here was to tell Jones to fight Aspinall or get stripped.

I totally agree with your post

 

[Ser das Trevas]

The same thing is happening in basketball. The USA is not dominating other nations like it used to. Other countries are catching up.

My pet theory is that the de dollarizarion and globalization that is occurring is chipping away at our dominance.

Even in the Olympics the USA would smack around other teams in basketball and now we almost lost to both France and Serbia. Once the older players retire it’s going to be bad for the US. The next few Olympic golds will be won by other countries in basketball.

 

[JoeRowe]

HW was never an American thing. Besides Stipe the greatest in no particular order:

Fedor
Overeem
Werdum
Nog
Aspinall
Cain

HW might even be considered the least American division.

Nope it's not the point, look who he replied to.

Fedor
Overeem
Werdum
Nog
Cain

I think these guys are not an active fighters but maybe i don't know.

Cain is American, born & raised in Cali