The title picture at women's strawweight - assessing the champion and the four top contenders

I respect your take except for JJ/ Andrade as that fight becomes obsolete cause Andrade would be slight favorite in fight vs when they fought first time and JJ was a healthy favorite. A totally different fight today.
Thanks, but what do you think Andrade would do different in a rematch? From what i've seen from Joanna recently (putting up a solid fight against Shevchenko and winning against Waterson in a dominant decision) she has improved as well. You might wanna check this out for further details:
Joanna ( and this is no slight) first came over and it was Christmas time as no one really knew the levels she was above every gal. The women put in their thankless hours of work and caught up with JJ( the gals that truly evolved- rose ,andrade).
Again, Joanna improved as well in my opinion (and as Luke Thomas pointed out) but why do you think the other fighters caught up with her? Not saying it's not true, just curious man!
I like Joanna but we'll see. They gave her a favorable stylistic match up with MW and she took care of business as the odds ( -280) figured she would.
Waterson is a good bit smaller, but i wouldn't say she was a favourable stylistic matchup really, but Joanna surely did take care of business, to quote you!
Yeah.... and dont sleep on Arnsoff- I was completely blown away with her performance agsinst a gal NOBODY wanted to fight .She defended as well as you could for 2 rounds and was shocked how exhausted Tatiana was in 3rd.
Yup, put a good fight against Suarez - let's wait and see how she does against other top five fighters in the future!
 
Why do you think she's overrated? She's the only fighter at women's strawweight to beat Jessica Andrade besides Zhang and belongs to the very few fighters who had competitive fights with Valentina Shevchenko.
I could go on, but i don't think she's overrated (at all).
Appreciate your reply not being something negative regarding the length of the post by the way!
Agreed. JJ is legit. Very good thread btw
 
Agreed. JJ is legit. Very good thread btw
Thanks man, appreciate it!
Yeah she is and no offense to anybody, but it i find it very annoying when people say she's irrelevant or wasn't that good. She still has the most title defenses at women's strawweight and has dominated in pretty much every fight she has won, sometimes landing three times as many strikes as her opponents.
Sure, she lost two times against Rose, but the thing is that Rose is insanely good on the feet (and a bad matchup for Joanna).
It's also been said, that Joanna has been affected by a hard weight cut during their first bout, but i don't want to make Rose' accomplishments smaller.
In the second fight she lost against Rose, she outstruck Rose, although it's a legit win for Namajunas, since she landed the better strikes, but it was still a competitive fight.
Her other loss was against Valentina Shevchenko (at a higher weight class) and i guess everybody knows by now how good she is, haha.
 
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Michelle was not a stylistically favorable matchup until after Joanna beat her. She was a problematic style matchup to the Joanna that faced Rose and Tecia. Check out Heavy Hands and Zane Simon's podcast. They cover it rather well.

Being likely to win is not necessarily the same thing as a favorable style matchup.

The fight was interesting because they were at a crossroads not just historically but in styles. There were specific changes Joanna and her camp had to make to not only ensure a win but dominate. She needed to take significant time off to succeed and she did. Is she done developing? No. She could take another half a year off and do a much better job and has indicated she would if she won't get a title fight.
I dont give a shit ( respectfully) of anyone's podcast but mine. Of course, just because you're a healthy favorite mean you automatically win. This is mma and the fights have to be fought. I dont and didnt see any advantages for Michelle and Vegas ( who I do trust regardless the outcome- especially if you know how to read AN OPENING line) agreed by making her an enormous -335 fave[ opened].
I said Johanna may have gotten complacent. I'm not saying she "cant" further evolve.....its just my opinion that she wont. This still makes her an upper tier straw- I just dont see her winning title and she " might " still be top 5.
 
Thanks, but what do you think Andrade would do different in a rematch? From what i've seen from Joanna recently (putting up a solid fight against Shevchenko and winning against Waterson in a dominant decision) she has improved as well. You might wanna check this out for further details:

Again, Joanna improved as well in my opinion (and as Luke Thomas pointed out) but why do you think the other fighters caught up with her? Not saying it's not true, just curious man!

Waterson is a good bit smaller, but i wouldn't say she was a favourable stylistic matchup really, but Joanna surely did take care of business, to quote you!

Yup, put a good fight against Suarez - let's wait and see how she does against other top five fighters in the future!

I'm not going to retort to every response cause I dont have too much a problem of what I read rather quickly.

Andrade just has flat out closed the gap as a fighter compared to first time. Johanna was a -235 favorite in 1st fight.
A re match would see a betting line near the pk'em line.
Lol( and I'm not trying to be a dick ....I'm just raining it down). Did u not see " the deer in the headlights look" on Carla's face along with the swelling and red stuff leaking from her face when she basically handed JJ her title.... and then the first few defenses of title. For Christs sake , it's of a rhetorical nature of how the pack caught up.

Again, we'll see. Lol- I'm not saying, obviously, that JJ is washed up.....that would be silly -HOWEVER- just one mans opinion, I don't see gold in future.
 
Rose is getting her mindset right for her return...
 
Seems I'm the only one that thought ASSessing the contenders was the intended meaning.
 
With Rose coming back, I honestly think we could have 3-4 different SW champions in the next couple of years.
 
I dont give a shit ( respectfully) of anyone's podcast but mine. Of course, just because you're a healthy favorite mean you automatically win. This is mma and the fights have to be fought. I dont and didnt see any advantages for Michelle and Vegas ( who I do trust regardless the outcome- especially if you know how to read AN OPENING line) agreed by making her an enormous -335 fave[ opened].
I said Johanna may have gotten complacent. I'm not saying she "cant" further evolve.....its just my opinion that she wont. This still makes her an upper tier straw- I just dont see her winning title and she " might " still be top 5.

You said MW was a favorable style matchup. That's factually wrong. That's not the same thing as what you are saying here which is Joanna should win. I agree with you there and regardless of what you think of other podcasts and the analysis from other MMA commentators they agreed with you as well.

However style matchups are a specific thing. Joanna's early career style of being a pressure fighter was more favorable to beating out fighters. Case in point see her first fight vs Lima.

Joanna needed to change her style if she wanted to continue to be successful specifically as a champion in 5 round fights. However her current style can result in closer rounds under the 10 point Must system vs her old style.

See her first fight vs Claudia. That was Joanna as a pressure fighter and she lost good chunks of that fight due to her opponent being a bigger more explosive pressure fighter themselves. She arguably lost that one. Fast forward to their second fight and Joanna was more of an out fighter by that point and sapped Claudia in a 5 rounder but lost the first few rounds more decisively then their first fight.

I'm not going to go through Joanna's entire career. Suffice it to say her style changed to adjust to pressure fighters as she faced 4 of them in a row ending with Andrade. By that point her style was deficient and filled with gaping holes when dealing with out fighters and she ended up facing one of her worst style matchups in that regard vs Rose.

The Tecia fight was interesting because again she is an in-out fighter like Rose but not as dangerous. Without adjustments that could have been Joanna's 3rd loss in a row all to in-out fighters. They weren't even sure she won the 2nd round of that fight and some argue she didn't because of the last few seconds of their exchange. This was still the version of Joanna that fought Rose but more careful and she brought consistent clinch fighting back in.

Michelle is a counter out fighter, arguably the best version of herself at the moment, so again on paper it's a bad style matchup without adjustments. The Joanna that faced Rose could have arguably lost to this version of Michelle in razor thin rounds or if she won it would not have been dominant as Michelle would have more likely been able to land more consistently.

This version of Joanna tools the current version of Rose. Rose and her team are smart to spend her time on clinch fighting and wrestling and that's exactly what she just said in her last interview.

Should win is a meaningless and useless statement without analyzing why. It's what results in the odds stacking against Rose both times she faced Joanna.
 
You said MW was a favorable style matchup. That's factually wrong. That's not the same thing as what you are saying here which is Joanna should win. I agree with you there and regardless of what you think of other podcasts and the analysis from other MMA commentators they agreed with you as well.

However style matchups are a specific thing. Joanna's early career style of being a pressure fighter was more favorable to beating out fighters. Case in point see her first fight vs Lima.

Joanna needed to change her style if she wanted to continue to be successful specifically as a champion in 5 round fights. However her current style can result in closer rounds under the 10 point Must system vs her old style.

See her first fight vs Claudia. That was Joanna as a pressure fighter and she lost good chunks of that fight due to her opponent being a bigger more explosive pressure fighter themselves. She arguably lost that one. Fast forward to their second fight and Joanna was more of an out fighter by that point and sapped Claudia in a 5 rounder but lost the first few rounds more decisively then their first fight.

I'm not going to go through Joanna's entire career. Suffice it to say her style changed to adjust to pressure fighters as she faced 4 of them in a row ending with Andrade. By that point her style was deficient and filled with gaping holes when dealing with out fighters and she ended up facing one of her worst style matchups in that regard vs Rose.

The Tecia fight was interesting because again she is an in-out fighter like Rose but not as dangerous. Without adjustments that could have been Joanna's 3rd loss in a row all to in-out fighters. They weren't even sure she won the 2nd round of that fight and some argue she didn't because of the last few seconds of their exchange. This was still the version of Joanna that fought Rose but more careful and she brought consistent clinch fighting back in.

Michelle is a counter out fighter, arguably the best version of herself at the moment, so again on paper it's a bad style matchup without adjustments. The Joanna that faced Rose could have arguably lost to this version of Michelle in razor thin rounds or if she won it would not have been dominant as Michelle would have more likely been able to land more consistently.

This version of Joanna tools the current version of Rose. Rose and her team are smart to spend her time on clinch fighting and wrestling and that's exactly what she just said in her last interview.

Should win is a meaningless and useless statement without analyzing why. It's what results in the odds stacking against Rose both times she faced Joanna.
Let make this simple :
AT THE TIME - dont group claudia in with sny of the gals from tuf- ...again- at the time ( just validating my point further).

Joanna is just better than waterson, period PERIOD ( rhats why she opened up enormous favorite- theres nothing to break down ).

I'm Glad you finished up with Rose . My biggest point . The Rose that whooped JJ not the same fighter...... Jesus- almost literally but that's not possible ( cause it was rose in her skin ).
........... I believe we wouldve ( or MSYBE still will)seen a similar result in a 2nd fight between Andrade and JJ. I dont have to break it down- I own eye balls and just my opinion .Andrade did become champ for a reason.
 
Nice read man, good effort
Suarez vs Zhang would be puzzling fight, because Suarez would be looking to set up that TD and I dont think she could back up Zhang.
Will say that once Suarez takes her down, the rest of the round would just be on the ground.
I think Zhang would only need one shot to put Suarez out.
I very much want to see Andrade work herself back into contention and try to get a rematch, time will tell if she learned something from her past mistske.

Although Weili rarely finds herself on the bottom, she has proved that she can be devastating from that position as well. Suarez vs. Weili would be an intriguing fight. Hope Suarez recovers soon.
 
Although Weili rarely finds herself on the bottom, she has proved that she can be devastating from that position as well. Suarez vs. Weili would be an intriguing fight. Hope Suarez recovers soon.
Suarez vs Zhang is one of the most interesting WMMA matchups of all time, IMO.
 
Hard to make predictions because "styles make fights", and these ladies being high level athletes doesn't help that cause. However, I think against anyone in the list but Rose, Suarez gets her butt handed to her. I can see her beating Rose based on pressure alone. Andrade and Zhang knock her out, Joanna styles on her and wins a comfortable decision.

In my opinion, Joanna is Weili's toughest match up and quite possibly the one to dethrone her. Interesting match up because Weili will adapt to whatever style Joanna brings to her, she's also physically strong and skilled enough to really test Joanna on every level. On the other hand, Joanna is simply sublime at keeping a fight where she wants it, and if she wants Weili at a distance, she'll probably manage to do it.

Rose should face Tatiana or Claudia. Her days of ducking pressure fighters are over.
 
Her days of ducking pressure fighters are over.
When was Rose ducking pressure fighters? In her last fight she not only agreed to fight Andrade, but also agreed to fight her on "enemy soil" in Brazil.
 
When was Rose ducking pressure fighters? In her last fight she not only agreed to fight Andrade, but also agreed to fight her on "enemy soil" in Brazil.

On her way to a title shot. She faced Karolina and got ragdolled in the clinch (something she hasn't fixed, Joanna could've done the same but was eager to strike instead). Decided to face Waterson instead of Gadelha and Andrade. She even admitted to want the Waterson fight because it was the more commercial fight, Claudia and Jessica called her out, and Rose answered by saying that they're not what the fans want to see.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-wants-money-fight-with-michelle-waterson.amp

Her own words, basically said "Yeah they're killers and would test me, but Michelle is pretty so imma fight her instead. Oh yeah I want to be the best by beating the best, but not Claudia or Jessica though".
 
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