Television The Star Trek Thread V6.0

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

So what's the con census on 'Picard?' .

It’s DOGSHIT

 

[Deleted member 110072]

As with so much else the whole Android plot just feels so regressive from TNG, I could just about see it working in say the Enterprise timeline but here its so badly out of whack with the situations its following both morally and technically.

I mean the interest in Data was never that he was simply a humanoid looking robot who could do menial tasks on an industrial scale, the interest was that he was a self aware AI. Honestly I don't even see the point of making such workers look so human and the idea of that situation and the obvious slave parallels is something that would not be casual accepted in TNG, especially as this was before the supposed "moral decline" of the Federation.

Kurtzman's style was never even a fit for the TOS and before era but its so massively out of place in the TNG era its not even funny, literally nothing and nobody feels as it should and that kills the impact for any actual change. A story of the moral decline of the federation could be interesting but you just have no base to work from to make it feel like something has been lost.

Watching DS9 ep "What you leave behind".

Cheesy, cheesy. The Dukat/Winn arc is just fucking awful, a garbage ending to the characters. Sisko too.

"But first, we need to release the Pah Wraiths from the Fire Caves."

To be fair I think Marc Alaimo and Lousie Fletcher were good enough to make their sparring fun to watch but the show always struggled with the more mystical side of the plot. There were some pretty good one off episodes along these lines in the past but the final climax did essentially end up as a rather low key B-plot in the last season with a tacked on ending after the war was concluded.

I suspect a big issue really is that they were always working on the fly here, if you believe(and I do dispite being a fan of it) that a lot of the shows concept was nicked from earlier Babylon 5 ideas paramount had seen when that show was looking for funding then I think it makes more sense. The slow build into the large scale war is easier to carry across but the specifics of the more mystical side would be harder and indeed Babylon 5 itself shifted a lot from the earlier plan by the time it went into production(and after season 1).

Dramatically I think the show did lose interest towards the end as characters like Kira(still the best female Trek character IMHO), Dukat and Garak became played out dramatically although they did build Damar up nicely and he ended up carrying a lot of the final season.

 

[sverre054]

So what's the con census on 'Picard?' I haven't been in here, or watched it.. I did see some of the first episode, with old Data in the dream. Knowing Brent Spiner, I'd kind of like to see him at a comic-con and ask him 300 questions about his cameo and ask him for lines from it, just to see his reaction.

I'm enjoying it. It is not TNG, so if your expecting that, you will be disappointed, but it is a good show. The first episode is great, then it slows down quite a bit, before picking back up around episode 6. You can get a free week of CBS all access if you want to binge the whole series this week, before the finale on Thursday

 

[sverre054]

Haha someone slowed down Beyond Belief to half speed, so Jonathan Frakes sounds like every annoying drunk you've ever met.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

They are simple robots. They were hacked by the Romulans. Bruce Maddox had figured out how to reproduce many aspects of the pasatronic brain, but could never figure out the human element, like Soong had done to create data. They were able to use Maddox basic Android, which they renamed syths.

8n the Picard book, many of the world's pissed about the Federation devoting all the resources to helping the Romulans, wanted those syths for themselves to do minal labor

I see

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I think the show has significant issues beyond not feeling related to TNG but considering it depends on attachment to that series/setting for so much of its drama that is surely a significant issue? again the idea of moral decline in the federation isn't in itself automatically bad but I think you need to feel its a believable decline from an existing base. Nothing we see in Picard feels at all like the Federation from TNG, it just feels like a rather ham fisted introduction of contemporary politics dressed up with some of the same actors and design work.

 

[Communion]

E1-52%
E2-56%
E3-34%
E4-40%
E5-50%
E6-58%
E7-35%
E8-46%
E9-38%
E10-

I adore season 3-6 of TNG. There were some good episodes in seasons 2 and 7 but were way too inconsistent. The TNG movies were mostly dogshit.

TOS is meh, some good episodes, mostly bad. HOWEVER, movies 1, 2, 4, and 6 are legitimately good. Roddenberry was better at making movies than TV shows, imo. TNG wasn't that good until Piller came on board.

Kurtzman, Goldsmith, and Chabon fucking suck at making anything. I can't believe how dumb and nonsensical STP and STD have been.

The thing that made Star Trek that much better was its scientific and thematic plausibility. That is completely bereft in nu trek.

I'm pouring one out for my ST homies.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I haven't heard much speculation about how Gene would've reacted to this.

I imagine he wouldn't be pleased

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I haven't heard much speculation about how Gene would've reacted to this.

I imagine he wouldn't be pleased

I imagine he’s spinning in his grave.

 

[Clippy]

I imagine he’s spinning in his grave.

At warp 9

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Also this has been @sverre054 throughout this thread:

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I imagine he’s spinning in his grave.

Like a millisecond pulsar

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Also this has been @sverre054 throughout this thread:

At this stage as well I'm not even really seeing this as cynical popularism, I mean with the first Abrams films yes that kind of made sense that they thought people were still rather burned out on Trek not so long after Enterprise and that a big dumb fun action films would make more money. Now though that really doesn't seem to be the case at all, so much of the hype for Picard was a desire for the show to return somewhat to the style of the 90's yet here we are basically being given more of the same.

Really to me what it comes across is that Kurtzman and co are basically looking out for themselves, carving Trek into a nice little retirement home from their failed Hollywood careers even if it means the franchise is being slowly destroyed because they simply lack the ability to make the content that might save it.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

TOS "I, Mudd".

KIRK: "He lied. Everything Harry tells you is a lie. Remember that. Everything Harry tells you is a lie.
MUDD: Listen to this carefully, Norman. I am lying.
NORMAN: You say you are lying, but if everything you say is a lie then you are telling the truth, but you cannot tell the truth because everything you say is a lie. You lie. You tell the truth. But you cannot for. Illogical! Illogical! Please explain."
(Smoke comes out of Norman's head.)

This is a hilarious sequence because the foley artist put in comical zoop, boi-oi-oing! sound effects like you'd hear in an episode of Batman

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

TOS "I, Mudd".

KIRK: "He lied. Everything Harry tells you is a lie. Remember that. Everything Harry tells you is a lie.
MUDD: Listen to this carefully, Norman. I am lying.
NORMAN: You say you are lying, but if everything you say is a lie then you are telling the truth, but you cannot tell the truth because everything you say is a lie. You lie. You tell the truth. But you cannot for. Illogical! Illogical! Please explain."
(Smoke comes out of Norman's head.)

This is a hilarious sequence because the foley artist put in comical zoop, boi-oi-oing! sound effects like you'd hear in an episode of Batman

Meanwhile in Discovery Harry Mudd is literally capable of cold blooded mass murder.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Meanwhile in Discovery Harry Mudd is literally capable of cold blooded mass murder.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Meanwhile in Discovery Harry Mudd is literally capable of cold blooded mass murder.

If they hadn't called the character "Harry Mudd", I wouldn't have known that's who he was supposed to be.

 

[sverre054]

Also this has been @sverre054 throughout this thread:

Yes that's exactly what I am doing

I am just as big of a TNG fan, as any other fan in here. I can separate that 30 years has past and things have changed. Is everything perfect about Discovery and Picard, no. But I do think both shows get alot of undue hate. Both shows have improved as they have gone along. Same thing happened with all the other show. I'm just happy, that new star trek is being made.

 

[Clippy]

Yes that's exactly what I am doing

I am just as big of a TNG fan, as any other fan in here. I can separate that 30 years has past and things have changed. Is everything perfect about Discovery and Picard, no. But I do think both shows get alot of undue hate. Both shows have improved as they have gone along. Same thing happened with all the other show. I'm just happy, that new star trek is being made.

But new Star Trek isn't being made

 

[Loiosh]

Anyone ever go on trekbbs back in the day? It was like the first star trek community website, that started in the mid 90s. I used to go on there and read posts, but didn't post. A star trek Facebook group recently posted some archived threads from the trekbbs and it was pretty hilarious.

They basically all complained about how Voyager was was too political, and was trying to promote the united nations and not the US, how Janeway is too weak to be captain, male crew wouldn't respond to a mother figure, Torres was a butch lesbian, and how Voyager was far too violent and Roddenberry would never allowed that ship to travel around destroying the delta quadrant. There was also a few complaining about Enterprise, including one with someone threatening to call there senator and head of the FCC because Enterprise was showing Vulcans engage in Pornography and lewdness. Pretty fascinating time capsule.

No surprise. There were whiny bitches then, there are whiny bitches now. There will always be whiny bitches.

I didn't really like Picard. Some of my friends really did. Whatever.

I didn't like Next Gen and gave up season one. I came back and it had some great stuff... But I didn't like most of it. I hated DS9. A friend of mine talked me into going back, and turns out a lot of it was awesome. A lot of it (every single Ferengi episode for starters) was terrible. The ending was THE WORST. But it also had some amazing stuff. Voyager? Bailed on that early as well. Same friend talked me into going back, and some of my favorite characters are from that show. Enterprise? hated it, left it, never really went back, although I did catch the occasional episode and it seemed to get better until... Nazis? Discovery? Not what I expected. Turned me off right from the start with some bad, unnecessary changes to the universe but in the end, you know what? In the end they made some excellent science fiction, I'm glad I watched it, and I'm looking forward to more.

I don't understand the obsession with hanging around a site for something you don't like and complaining how terrible it is. I can't imagine putting so much energy into complaining about something I didn't like.