Law THE POLICE SHOOTING/USE OF FORCE MEGATHREAD: discussions to determine if justified or not

@panamaican @Islam Imamate @Jack V Savage would you like to discuss some of these cases? You might actually take some time to read and respond. Others are too lazy. They just want to run their mouths about police.

Every one of these cases have been protested, talked and reported about, had riots and murders of police over, had massive lawsuits, and even criminal charges against the police officers involved.
 
And I will check all of them out. Like I said, I just need a name so I can find them on my YouTube account. Or a link to the story. Atm I don’t have time. I am at work and I have to handle a few things and get my afternoon schedule out and get those employees in place, then I will have the time
You are a liar and a coward
 
You are a liar and a coward

Did you, or did you not provide me a name or link to the story like i asked so I could find the video? I explained to you that I have no idea what my YouTube password is offhand. I have the app on my phone that is already signed in. In order to watch the adult content video, I have to have that password. I am not going through the trouble to reset the fucking thing when I have the app. I just need a name like I have asked for and you didn’t provide.

So I get you like to try to ruffle feathers and start shit, and you did exactly what I said would happen, bringing in your own cases, and I said I would look at them and give my thoughts. My guess is that they are probably bad cop incidents because, well, you’re not going to discuss any of these because I put the time and work into these cases and I am confident that my arguments are solid-so you brought in a case with cops doing bad shit in an attempt to lure me into an argument you think you can win-but I can’t even play that game with a link.
 
Did you, or did you not provide me a name or link to the story like i asked so I could find the video? I explained to you that I have no idea what my YouTube password is offhand. I have the app on my phone that is already signed in. In order to watch the adult content video, I have to have that password. I am not going through the trouble to reset the fucking thing when I have the app. I just need a name like I have asked for and you didn’t provide.

So I get you like to try to ruffle feathers and start shit, and you did exactly what I said would happen, bringing in your own cases, and I said I would look at them and give my thoughts. My guess is that they are probably bad cop incidents because, well, you’re not going to discuss any of these because I put the time and work into these cases and I am confident that my arguments are solid-so you brought in a case with cops doing bad shit in an attempt to lure me into an argument you think you can win-but I can’t even play that game with a link.
Goddamn dude, we already had this back and forth after I tried to help you out with one a few weeks back. I posted a couple more and you got mad at me for accusing you of not knowing how to use youtube. Sadly, you still can't figure it out. I already said I'm not anti cop and I gave reasons for posting the ones I did. You should rename the thread "let's talk about old shit that's already been discussed to death".
 
Goddamn dude, we already had this back and forth after I tried to help you out with one a few weeks back. I posted a couple more and you got mad at me for accusing you of not knowing how to use youtube. Sadly, you still can't figure it out. I already said I'm not anti cop and I gave reasons for posting the ones I did. You should rename the thread "let's talk about old shit that's already been discussed to death".

Dude, I will discuss those cases. I just need names. That’s all. And the one, you said your thoughts were that the cop was a dick or something.
 
Dude, I will discuss those cases. I just need names. That’s all. And the one, you said your thoughts were that the cop was a dick or something.

The one below is Amelia Baca from Las Cruces, NM.

@nhbbear if you ever figured out how to use youtube here is one for you. Cop blasts a 75 year old lady with dementia holding kitchen knives. Shooting was found to be constitutional. Cop kept his job, but wasn't on patrol anymore. Looks like the city gave the family around $3 million. Federal suit was filed too, but I couldn't find a conclusion on that.

My legal opinion is that this cop is a piece of shit.



The one below here is Quadry Sanders from Lawton, OK. Trial is pending, but this one is just stupid because the cops clearly weren't right for the job. They shoot the guy while he is unarmed and following commands.

However, if you want one that is plain fucked, here you go. Cops got fired and then reinstated. They have another hearing on their manslaughter charges next month.

 
The one below is Amelia Baca from Las Cruces, NM.



The one below here is Quadry Sanders from Lawton, OK. Trial is pending, but this one is just stupid because the cops clearly weren't right for the job. They shoot the guy while he is unarmed and following commands.

Ok, the old lady with the knives. In my opinion, he made quite a few mistakes. First of all, in any knife related incident, distance is the most important factor in my opinion. Second is some barricade between you and the subject with the knives. That officer failed to utilize either. You get those people out of the way and move them to safety. Then you either shut the fucking door and talk to her if language allows, and do so in a calm fashion, or you get the fuck out until you have other options, such as a shield or non-lethal options. You pepper spray the hell out of that old broad and she is dropping the kvives and it is over. The family would still be yelling about that because she would be wailing, but she would be alive. Another issue I have is handcuffing a 77 year old woman after shooting her. Move the knives and don’t cuff her. You simply remove the threat. It’s not like she is a young, drugged up man that could still pose a threat if they still have weapons hidden on them or nearby.

There, see. 10 mins after I got the name. And it is a bad shoot imo, so nothing much to argue and this belongs in the bad cop thread.

I will check the other one after dinner
 
@panamaican @Islam Imamate @Jack V Savage would you like to discuss some of these cases? You might actually take some time to read and respond. Others are too lazy. They just want to run their mouths about police.

Every one of these cases have been protested, talked and reported about, had riots and murders of police over, had massive lawsuits, and even criminal charges against the police officers involved.
I appreciate your including me but I generally stay out of these topics. Most people decide appropriate or inappropriate based on how they feel about personal characteristics of the shooting victim. If they think the victim was a bad person, the shoot was justified, regardless of the facts of that specific incident.

I've lost interest in trying to get people to stop using some prior, unrelated, act as justification for a shooting. The facts of the shooting are the only facts that should matter but 3 dozen posts that are basically character assassination tends to be what dominates.
 
There, see. 10 mins after I got the name. And it is a bad shoot imo, so nothing much to argue and this belongs in the bad cop thread.
I guess you really do have a hard time with reading comprehension. I said I brought that one up because the shooting was found to be constitutional and the cop kept his job. So why would that one go in the "bad cop" thread?
 
I guess you really do have a hard time with reading comprehension. I said I brought that one up because the shooting was found to be constitutional and the cop kept his job. So why would that one go in the "bad cop" thread?

Normally, I would say that was awful but lawful , but that would have been for someone that moved faster than an old lady shuffling towards you.

Technically, (and I don’t agree with it) she was an armed subject moving towards him with knives, so that is probably why he was cleared.

he looks old enough to have seen the vhs copies of surviving edged weapons. The cop was probably trained using tbr 21 foot rule. I have talked about this often, but when I first started, they put the three new guys in a room with an old vhs player and put on the 90s “surviving edged weapons” in which the 21 foot rule is explained. According to that, any person within 21 feet with a knife is a threat because this video shows that 21 feet can be closed within a few seconds and studies showed that most cops could not draw and fire before the knife could make contact.

Cops misunderstood the implications of the video and thought person +knife within 21 feet=shoot even if they’re just standing there. And that’s how the rule was interpreted, however, the system that first proposed that rule has since changed it. Now it depends on whether the gun is in the holster or not. Now the guidelines are out of the holster, safe distance is more than ten feet plus the length of the weapon. Gun in holster is more than 21 feet.

This whole 21 foot rule came about in the mid 80s and I had an instructor who was in the very room where and when it was born. A ppct(pressure point control tactics) instructor was teaching minimum safe distances from suspects and an unarmed suspect is six feet. Somekne asked about a knife and he said “I don’t know, probably around 21 feet.” And they then proceeded to test that guess and found it to be accurate enough.

So they made a video called surviving edged weapons and it showed nasty knife experts putting a hurting on people within 22 feet and it became gospel amongst US policing and officers would shoot someone standing within 21 feet with a knife and claim that’s how they were trained.

Since then, lots of additional anti-knife training and tactics have come out proving that there are other factors that need to be considered such as distance, gun out of the holster, and barriers to put between you and the knife. Cars are great barriers, doors, or anything that prevents a knife wielding attacker to have a straight shot at you. By now, every cop should be trained on less lethal options and ways to avoid shooting someone with a knife. Sometimes it can’t be helped, but in this particular case, I believe it easily could have.

And for your enjoyment, surviving edged weapons

 
The one below is Amelia Baca from Las Cruces, NM.



The one below here is Quadry Sanders from Lawton, OK. Trial is pending, but this one is just stupid because the cops clearly weren't right for the job. They shoot the guy while he is unarmed and following commands.

Ok, quadry sanders is tougher imo. Police were called there for a hostage situation where he was holding someone inside the house with a firearm. Police had been there many times, including the night before and again a few days before that and if i recall the article, he was arrested as a felon with a firearm and is released immediately.

The police hail him on a bullhorn and he comes out and then runs right back in the house. He comes out and is sort of complying but backs against a cabinet partially out of view and in his hand is a black hat. So they shot him four times. They are yelling at him ti roll over and stay down and he sits up with his hands in the air and they fire another volley, which ultimately kills him.

My thoughts, based upon the situation, and his behavior and history as a violent felon and the reports that he was holding people hostage with a gun, I can understand the first volley but I can’t understand the second volley of shots. Even after the second volley, they are treating him as still a threat, dragging him so they can get the people out of the house and check for injured people or additional suspects. So I am a bit mixed on whether charges should have been filed based upon the intent to commit a crime when it is clear the officers feared for their lives and were jumpy because of his crimes actively being committed and his strange behavior. They did not find a gun on him, but the article didn’t mention if there was one in the house. I am guessing there was a gun inside and that was why he ran in the house the first time, to ditch it and then surrender.

In the end, I can’t condemn or condone this shooting, at least as far as charges go. The second volley was definitely an issue. So here we are, again, with a violent piece of shit doing bad things and putting cops in a precarious situation where they are obviously afraid for their lives. I am sure the family will get millions in the ghetto my relative is a shithead lottery and the officers will get 20 some years for a split second mistake-most likely a longer sentence than some felon that meant to Jill someone like chauvin who got 40 some years after the Feds took their chunk as well because 22 years simply wasn’t enough. Meanwhile, same city, a felon stabbed a man in a fight, killed him, and got 9 years.
 
Anthony Lowe. Huntington park jan 26 2023

Double amputee shot by police while “running for his life while terrified.”

How in the world could a police shooting involving a legless man be justified? Well, maybe we’ll see that below? Community outrage was immediate after video showed Lowe hobbling along in a pretty funny video but did not show the shooting because a vehicle blocked the end of the encounter. As you will see below, apparently, black man hunting season has begun already in 2023, but how does one get a hunting license for a double amputee?

“I don’t know how police could make any excuse for feeling threatened by a double amputee in a wheelchair,” said Melina Abdullah, a co-founder of Black Lives Matter-LA. “It’s disgusting. It just shows you it seems to be open season on Black people.”


Anthony Lowe lost his legs after a police encounter in Texas in late 2022. The family said they do not know the circumstances of that incident as he didn’t talk about it and as an adult, Texas state police do not have to divulge that information to family while he is still alive. All that is known is that he was arrested for an armed robbery warrant from 2021 in what is a big surprise of someone who ends up shot by police.

On the day Lowe was shot, he was riding around downtown la, minding his own business, when he decided to stab an Asian man in the back with a 12 inch butcher knife. The man suffered life threatening injuries and suffered a collapsed lung.

Police located Lowe and he jumped out of his chair and tried “running” away while holding the butcher knife. He is on video swinging it at officers multiple times. Police try to use a taser on Lowe two separate times and it fails to make a good connection.

The full incident is captured on video from a local business. In that video it shows Lowe swinging the knife and then he cocks back his arm to throw the knife at officers.

community and family reaction:

His mother had this to say: “
Lowe’s mother Dorothy said, “This situation is worse than George Floyd. When these videos go out, it’s going to be all bad.”
“Black man who had both legs amputated last year, are demanding justice for what they consider a new racist murder by law enforcement officials.”

“You knew there was no danger to life. He’s running on his limbs. How can you be so cold-blooded?” one of the Lowe’s cousins asked the police. Another family member said: “If you are here to protect and serve, do that, protect us. Don’t kill us.”. “Nothing but the truth and justice. My son has been murdered,” she said.
legs were amputated after an incident with a Texas State Patrol trooper. The family also harbors doubts about that episode, which occurred last year, but have not offered any further details regarding it.

Charges against the officers?

In California, officers are only permitted to use their firearms when necessary to defend human life.
So far, the officers have not been charged.

La prosecutor, george gascon, probably my number 2 worst progressive DAs in the country behind larry krasner of Philly, ran on a promise to prosecute cops for murder. He has hired two former defense attorneys to head a special unit to prosecute and review cases of police use of force. The problem is that neither have ever filed charges before this and were never prosecutors. So far, the first case they brought was laughably dismissed in the preliminary hearing and the second resulted in an acquittal. One veteran prosecutor said that these two often come to his desk and ask for help saying “I’ve never done this before.”


gascon even hired a special lawyer, Middleton, to review cases of charges that were not brought by his predecessor at an exorbitant salary of $375 per hour!!
Public records show that Middleton is being paid $375 per hour, and some in the office derisively refer to him as “Millionaire Middleton.” A spokesperson for the district attorney’s office could not provide information about how many hours Middleton has billed since 2021,despite foia requests about this issue.

The lawsuit
:
Like clockwork, the family of this shitbag has filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit in a record 7 days after this incident. However, I can’t find if it is still pending. I found an article that said a lawsuit was settled, but that may have just been for the lawsuit to get the names of the officers and the city agreed to pay $6900 for lawyers fees and then they retract the complaint after receipt of funds. The police identified the officers in June. So again, I don’t know if it is still pending.

My thoughts:
Justified
, with a caveat. This police department does not have body cameras, so they sure as hell are not going to have less lethal or beam bag rounds. The tasers probably about broke them financially. We purchased 12 tasers and 12 body cameras for our security force and it was 50k. But my caveat is that police could have boxed him in with vehicles and would have been safe from the knife. Remember, I always say that when facing a knife, distance and barricades are the most important factors. A car is that barricade.

They also could have pepper sprayed him from a relative safe distance. But he absolutely is a threat to the community and the officers when he has already stabbed and almost killed one person. When he threatens to throw the knife a few times and then finally draws back his arm, police were justified in shooting him. While a thrown knife has a 25% chance of hitting with the sticky end(4 possible surfaces to hit if on target) and would not go through a vest, there are legs, arms, and especially the head and eyes. He would probably miss, even from a few feet away, but who in the fuck has the right to question police who are the ones facing a deadly threat? Come on down and let me throw a knife at you from four feet away.

And since the family and activists can claim this was a “racist murder” why aren’t we asking if Lowe’s attack on Ramiro was a racist attack? He chose a Hispanic male, whom black men have historically had beef with-maybe he couldn’t find an elderly Asian woman and chose the next best thing.





“they treated my cousin like an animal!!”



The real victim in this case




https://abc7.com/huntington-park-police-shooting-anthony-lowe-lawsuit/12763708/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...lchair-sparks-outcry-demand-answers-rcna68705

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ead-cops-Huntington-Park-says-not-threat.html
 
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I think somebody needs to go do a wellness check on @nhbbear

He's yelling at the clouds again

Hey, that’s what leonard cure did right before he was tasered and ultimately shot by police. That story is only one or two back.

So, you’re willing to come in here and run your mouth, but still being a pussy when it comes to actual discussion about these cases. Big, wet, flapping vagina with yellow discharge.
 
It's time to make that call then. You tagged me in a month old thread I didn't even participate in.

That I have been continually updating and I called you out because you want to argue about police procedure like you know something about it. There’s probably 10 or more cases discussed in here. All have been protested, litigated, and criticized so sure you can find one to champion?
 
During my masters, I had no fewer than two professors that set a limit for me on papers to 20 pages. In some topics, that’s my introduction. I called you out because you are constantly spamming the bad cops thread. I figured if anyone was game, it was you. I am done tagging panty-wastes like wilder and jefferz. They’re like cool ranch Doritos-totally disgusting and being no heat


So you never learned to edit yourself?

You do realize, that is a horrible trait, right? Whatever point you are trying to make is lost in your bible length bullshit.

I give you a worthless TL/DR out of 10.
 
So you never learned to edit yourself?

You do realize, that is a horrible trait, right? Whatever point you are trying to make is lost in your bible length bullshit.

I give you a worthless TL/DR out of 10.

I mean, you run your mouth about police often enough. Funnily enough, I don’t think I even remembered to tag you in this. So maybe you are willing to step up where so many other pussies were not
 
@nhbbear What thread does this horrific sick cop belong in ????????


I think something like this is a perfect litmus test for judging a cop. Any law enforcement officer that justifies or tries to be an apologist for this cop is rotten & 100% part of the problem.

-Caller told the cop "hey over here I'm the one who called not them. He dont have nothing to do with it"
-Random neighbor getting mail
- Does not fit the description of suspect
-Random neighbor confirms he's not a suspect named "Polo"
-Random neighbor states he's on his private property & has nothing to do with the call
- Cop swears and then threatens to arrest the guy because he didn't like the man's tone
- Man states his legal right to go outside to get his mail and not be harassed or falsely accused
-Cop gets irate and tries to arrest the guy threatens to kill his dog. Chases and attacks innocent victim with weapon. Terrorizes the neighborhood
- Meanwhile the people who called for help are yelling they still need help and the neighbor was never involved or part of the incident.

They settled out of court. But cop got no charges and kept his job. Only received a suspension.

@Sinister here is the same scenario as the truck incident pretty much, only with somebody getting the mail and not trying to get into their vehicle.
 
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