Law THE POLICE SHOOTING/USE OF FORCE MEGATHREAD: discussions to determine if justified or not

Every case that I have mentioned was interesting.


I know that, it's why I asked if you think he will be convicted.


Weird that you hate when race is brought up in these situations, but you feel the need to bring race up right off the bat.


Here is a little more on this aspect from a Buffalo news article:

The Attorney General’s Office called policing experts to testify before the grand jury – two sergeants with the State Police and a former police officer-turned professor, according to court documents.

Based on their testimony, Nigro disregarded risks and his actions were “a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable officer would observe in this situation,” prosecutors said in court papers.

Among them, according to court documents:

  • A state police sergeant twice over the police radio called for troopers to terminate their pursuit of Huber. After the first command, Nigro and another trooper continued to follow Huber’s Chevrolet Malibu.
After the second order over the radio to cease pursuit, Nigro and the other trooper deactivated the lights and sirens on their vehicles. At that point Huber stopped his vehicle, but then drove off.

Another sergeant called Nigro on his cellphone and Nigro told him he wasn’t actively pursuing Huber, but could see his vehicle in traffic. The sergeant “instructed Trooper Nigro to maintain a visual of Huber.”

  • Nigro never provided updates on his location.
  • Nigro parked his patrol car in front of Huber’s vehicle, even though training calls for police to position their vehicle behind a suspect.
  • Nigro, who was engaged in a “high risk/felony stop,” didn’t call for backup before approaching Huber’s car.
  • Nigro also didn’t have a plan before he approached the vehicle, didn’t wait for backup before trying to pull Huber out of the car and didn’t holster his gun before going “hands on” with a person.
According to court documents filed by Nigro’s defense, when asked during grand jury testimony whether Nigro’s actions were good tactical decisions, State Police Technical Sgt. Philip Shappy said, “I would constitute that as a tactical blunder, yes.”



After reading all of that I do agree with you saying that the family will get a settlement. I also doubt the cop will be convicted of manslaughter. IMO another case where killing the guy could have been avoided if the cop made better decisions, but Huber fucked around enough to where the cop won't get convicted of a crime. I do think the cop should probably be fired though.

Ok, I don’t remember all the cases you brought in. To be fair to me, quite a few have been dropped on me-fair to say? But I did find this one interesting andni enjoyed digging into it. I would say that when the officers slow down and turn off lights, that is no longer a pursuit, so they did terminate the pursuit. Maintaining visual contact with the vehicle if possible is always preferred. Some depts use helicopters to do so. I absolutely disagree with his tactics and I believe I said so. He took a lot of stupid risks that I wouldn’t have taken. I mentioned going hands on with a gun out, for one. I didn’t know he parked in front of him which baffles me-maybe he thinks he’s blocking him in? With all that said, a couple things are very evident to me. First, letitia james hates cops. She charged him with first and second degree manslaughter. Make up your mind, bitch-is it first or second? She went harder on him that she would a bag of fudge rounds(bitch fat). Not sure why state ag even involved. Maybe because he was a state trooper or she just sticking her nose in because she can?

I also pointed out that his tactical decisions and his policy violations are not evidence of a crime. Putting himself in harm’s way or making stupid decisions does not outweigh huber’s repeated reckless criminal decisions to the point he is not allowed to defend himself.

I did forget to mention that the fact that Nigro was knocked down by the vehicle, which bolsters his self defense claim imo.

As for me bringing up race, well, do you disagree? Would this have been a bigger deal if he was black? I 100% do and believe ben crump would run his own mother over ti get this case.
 
I don’t think much of officers that speak like that, but it is required occasionally-not in this case. I had to explain my “cop mouth” to my wife once and I told her some people don’t respond to please or thank you.
Can you think of a reason why he hasn't been charged yet?
 
To be fair to me, quite a few have been dropped on me-fair to say?
No, you started the thread so you reap what you sow.

I didn’t know he parked in front of him which baffles me-maybe he thinks he’s blocking him in?
You should learn how to use youtube. The videos that I have posted are the raw bodycam footage with no edits or commentary, unless the department added commentary when they released it.

I also pointed out that his tactical decisions and his policy violations are not evidence of a crime. Putting himself in harm’s way or making stupid decisions does not outweigh huber’s repeated reckless criminal decisions to the point he is not allowed to defend himself.
I literally said the same thing in the post you quoted.

As for me bringing up race, well, do you disagree? Would this have been a bigger deal if he was black? I 100% do and believe ben crump would run his own mother over ti get this case.
Don't know and don't care enough to waste my time imagining the possibilities.
 
But to show my appreciation I will share one of my favorite use of force videos. It isn't a shooting so it's not blocked like the other videos, but I will warn you that it's brutally hilarious. Short and to the point as well.

 
No, you started the thread so you reap what you sow.


You should learn how to use youtube. The videos that I have posted are the raw bodycam footage with no edits or commentary, unless the department added commentary when they released it.


I literally said the same thing in the post you quoted.


Don't know and don't care enough to waste my time imagining the possibilities.

Why are you always so hostile? I don’t think we are disagreeing on these cases and you’re being contrary for some reason. And again, yes, I know how to use YouTube. Mai just don’t know my password when the videos are age protected. I have the app where I am signed in, so I just need a name to look it up myself.
 
But to show my appreciation I will share one of my favorite use of force videos. It isn't a shooting so it's not blocked like the other videos, but I will warn you that it's brutally hilarious. Short and to the point as well.



That’s good. Perfect use of taser when some would have gone lethal force.
 
But to show my appreciation I will share one of my favorite use of force videos. It isn't a shooting so it's not blocked like the other videos, but I will warn you that it's brutally hilarious. Short and to the point as well.



Here’s one I always liked. Probably wouldn’t go over well today, but it is quick and effective with a guy that has been violent and is not listening.

 
Columbus Ohio, Donovan Lewis-unarmed b/m with vape pen shot-the usual, protests, charges, lawsuits

I like these close to home stories. I can relate to them more, feel like I know the area better, and I can relate to the culture better. I go to Columbus at least once or twice a year, I have trained there with their department for defensive tactics and taser. This is my third Columbus story itt, and while cpd had one of the worse unjustified shootings in Andre Hill, the others were perfectly justified.

In September, 2022, Donovan Lewis was wanted on warrants including a felony charge of beating up his pregnant girlfriend and a felony charge for improperly handling a firearm. Lewis also had multiple convictions/arrests for domestic violence and once beat his mother to a pulp after he stole something and he locked her out after which, he kicked in the door and began hitting her. Nice guy.

They went to a residence and pounded on the door and announced police we are here for Donovan Lewis, for quite some time before someone finally answered. The officers detained two men and asked if anyone else was inside. The men stated they were unsure *cough bullshit! Cough cough* so the men were removed and officers moved inside. They loudly announced multiple times it was the police and they had a k-9 they would release. The dog went to a door and began scratching the door and loudly barking. When an officer opened the door, Lewis raises up from the bed and swings his arm towards officers while holding something. The officer shoots him in the abdomen. The officers are yelling commands and pointing out that he still has something in his hand. It turns out to be a vape pen.

Protests. Of course. And the city changed executing arrest warrants after 11 pm after this: “Effective immediately and until revised or rescinded by me, no pre-planned arrest warrants shall be served at private residences for all misdemeanor offenses (including domestic violence) and non-violent felony offenses between the hours of 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM without the prior approval of a lieutenant or above,” the memo said.

Lawsuit: of course, not settled yet

Charges against the officer: yes. He was charged for murder and reckless homicide. The charges were filed 11 months after the shooting during which time, officer Ricky Anderson was out in the streets. The number of bodies he racked up in that 11 months is staggering-he managed to kill no one else, yet his bond was half a million.

My thoughts: I hate to use Donut operators’ term, lawful but awful, but it sort of applies. I say it is lawful, but I am not sure how awful it is because this guy was a violent piece of shit. Two of the women that were crying over him were his victims. The pregnant gf that he punched and threw down a hill and had to run into a Burger King to get to safety, had a healing black eye when police talked to her. She said he hits her all the time. He also had a felony charge of mishandling a firearm in a vehicle. I can’t find a decent source on this, but I remember hearing that he had been firing a handgun out of a car window to get these charges and he is prohibited from having a gun because of domestic violence. The fucking Brady campaign weighed in on this case and condemned the police. The fucking Brady campaign!! You know, the guys that hate gun violence, yet are taking the side of a guy who beat a pregnant woman and fired shots out of a moving vehicle. Fuck them.

Just watch the videos. There is no way in hell that these guys didn’t hear the police and absolutely impossible for him not to hear the dog barking and commands. Then, when police open the door, he comes up like that with a vape pen in his hand. My belief, he wanted to die by police rather than go to prison so his family could sue. The family and community is pulled the old “breona Taylor was asleep in bed” story here. This guy was not asleep. He didn’t just wake up when the police opened the door and was shocked awake.











https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/01/us/columbus-ohio-police-shooting-donovan-lewis/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/us/ricky-anderson-columbus-police-officer-donovan-lewis/index.html
 
Kentucky, June 2023, mark jaggers

This one should be relatively simple. It’s on video. Jaggers and his “baby momma” are driving around and see a vehicle with a lone occupant. Jaggers puts on a ski mask and runs up on the vehicle, which just happens to be a police officer on a stakeout. Jaggers has a gun in one hand and opens the car door and the officer lights him up in the chest. Then the baby momma trash bag comes running over screaming over and over that he’s her baby daddy. She makes some phone calls and then the whole mutant clan shows up. You can hear his brother screaming at cops “which one of you shot him!” Yeah, like trying to explain anything to someone in that state is a wise idea. The family claims it was a set-up and a lie even though it is on video.

Protest: nothing. Not enough melanin to protest this police shooting. Due was trying to car jack the officer and made a fatal mistake. The family showing up is a mutant fest.
 


that shit is always cool to see. The nuts on that guy. I have had civilians help me out in incidents that got hairy. The last time I ever worked in uniform, I responded to a fight. It was a gang initiation where some little punks were jumping out on people. This was the third night in a row: the first guy had his arm and his jaw broken, the second guy had his orbital socket broken, and this third time, it was a little homeless old man that they split the back of his head open like a melon.

I was first on scene and began collecting into. The neighbors were pissed off that this keeps happening and they indicated one house and said the kids (17-19) were hiding and responsible. We got the victim to the hospital and I was saying behind to gather one more statement form. All the other officers left to go do their reports as they were done soon and I had just started my shift. I told them “don’t go far, this is not over.” But, they said “fuck the lieutenant-what does he know?” And within minutes, the crowd formed and started yelling at the house and calling them pussies. Soon, the pussies came flooding out to fight the crowd. I got in between them and for a minute or two, they seemed to listen. I said “we’re not doing this shit-stay the fuck back!” The citizens listened but the little gangbangers kept jumping and barking and running they moufs. So fights began to break out. I kept getting in between them, taking just enough time in between shoving people to call some officers back to the scene. I said “it’s getting bad, I need help here.” Then it got worse and punches were being thrown. I keep shoving the same guy back-lanky, 19, 6-3, 180 and he starts getting mad at me telling me to move my bitch ass the way. I told him he had his last warning. I go and break up another fight and homeboy is attacking someone and I throw him off of him and the little sprat comes at me with his shoulder lowered, so I got lower and just blasted him into a car. I fought with him for moment to get him handcuffs, ignoring the threats that he was gonna fuck me up, got him handcuffed when I felt something whiff past my forehead. It was his brother trying to punt my head from my shoulders. I hear the woman I got the last statement off of screaming in the phone to dispatch “they’re going to kill your officer-send help now!!” It wasn’t quite that serious, but it was a spicy scenario. He stepped back and lined up the shot and out of nowhere, this big white bear of a man reaches down, bear hugs him and picks him off of the ground-kicking out and making threats.

I had seen this guy the last two nights and spoke to him about these incidents. I promised to increase patrols when we could and he shook my hand.

The other cops arrive, I chewed an ass or two about not going far and leaving me in that situation. I told them I would have been absolutely ashamed to leave a single officer behind on such a call. It burned some asses because some of those guys still don’t like me to this day-maybe because of it, hell, maybe they didn’t like me before this and that’s why they left me alone-who knows?

I found a very large dent in the wheel well of a vehicle and I was sure it was from the dude’s head. He had no injuries and denied he hit his head. We called the prosecutor to advise on charges. Big shocker, just get names and statements since no one would admit to being hit by any of them and most were under 18. I tried to have a man to man talk with my dude and said that if he continues to be a shithead, the next time he goes to big boy jail and will probably catch an ass beating by a less friendly officer than myself. He just said “whatever man, you didn’t do shit.” I pointed out the noises he made while he was being handcuffed with minimal effort-but don’t worry about that, prison will make you stronger and tougher.

So I went to thank my savior. He had some nice things to say about me getting in between twenty people trying to take each other’s heads off and some not so nice things to say about the younger officers (not my shift btw, I was “flexing” my hours and started a few hours early so I could finish around 0200 and this was another lieutenants shift-who was nowhere near this fracas). We shook hands again and I laughed and said “same time tomorrow night?” And he said he would throw some burgers on the grill for me.

Then I went back to hq, high on adrenaline and started typing and my left arm kept missing keys and hitting more than one key and then it fell completely off the keyboard. I knew what that meant. Went to the doctor and after telling them and telling them that physical therapy wasn’t going to repair whatever I tore, they did an mri and they said I had torn my labrum again(I had that same shoulder fixed two years prior). Got the surgery, worked a few weeks of light duty rewriting policies and running my shift as much as I could, but I wasn’t a cop on the streets-I was spurned admin.

Sleeping in a recliner for six months waiting for the surgery made my back get worse and worse and after the surgery, I found out my back had now gotten pretty bad. My legs kept giving out on me and they said “we have to do this now or you can lose the use of your legs.” So there it was, the end of my police career from one incident.
 
Ok @nhbbear here is a different one for you. Cop got sentenced to a year in prison and six months house arrest for kicking a handcuffed guy in the face. I'd assume we can agree that this was the wrong thing to unless you accept the cop's original statement that he was trying to hold the guy down with his foot. Anyone who accepts that is an idiot though, he clearly just booted the guy because he was pissed.

The real question is do you think he deserves a year in prison? I'd probably go with yes because cops are held to a higher standard. I'll post the video, but I know you struggle with Youtube so you can google Sgt. Eric Huxley. Fuck it I'll go ahead and add a link to an article in case google isn't your forte.


 
Ok @nhbbear here is a different one for you. Cop got sentenced to a year in prison and six months house arrest for kicking a handcuffed guy in the face. I'd assume we can agree that this was the wrong thing to unless you accept the cop's original statement that he was trying to hold the guy down with his foot. Anyone who accepts that is an idiot though, he clearly just booted the guy because he was pissed.

The real question is do you think he deserves a year in prison? I'd probably go with yes because cops are held to a higher standard. I'll post the video, but I know you struggle with Youtube so you can google Sgt. Eric Huxley. Fuck it I'll go ahead and add a link to an article in case google isn't your forte.




First, as always, fuck you and happy thanksgiving. And fuck yes he deserves a year for that

. If he weren’t a cop, I would say no. I have been kicked in the face multiple times and I think the most any one saw for it was about six months, but that was with other charges. I was pissed at the time because the guy was a total shithead with a very long and violent record, which is kind of my point with police officers that egregiously do this kind of shit.

I think you have to look at the criminal. A cop can take someone’s rights and life away, and while this maybe wasn’t life threatening (though we have seen people die from less) he meant to do it and the guy was cuffed and restrained. To me, that says he should do more towards the max of the range. For me, it’s the same way with career criminals and especially violent ones-they need hammered with max sentences because they are a proven threat to society.
 
@nhbbear here's a fresh one for you. Guy throws a brick at cops and gets blasted. On one hand the guy threw a brick, but on the other once the brick leaves his hand and doesn't hit the cop it seems like he's no longer an imminent threat. There were two shots, but I'm not certain if both or just one cop fired. You think the cops get fired, arrested, both, or deemed justified? Dead party is Elizandro Vargas from El Centro.

https://calexicochronicle.com/2023/11/24/ecpd-releases-video-911-calls-of-aug-officer-shooting/

 
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@nhbbear here's a fresh one for you. Guy throws a brick at cops and gets blasted. On one hand the guy threw a brick, but on the other once the brick leaves his hand and doesn't hit the cop it seems like he's no longer an imminent threat. There were two shots, but I'm not certain if both or just one cop fired. You think the cops get fired, arrested, both, or deemed justified? Dead party is Elizandro Vargas from El Centro.

https://calexicochronicle.com/2023/11/24/ecpd-releases-video-911-calls-of-aug-officer-shooting/




Looks justified to me. They shot immediately as the brick came at them he was still facing them.
 
Looks justified to me. They shot immediately as the brick came at them he was still facing them.

They? Officer #1 fired both shots. Officer #2 didn't even have a weapon drawn. Which looks bad on Officer #1
 
They? Officer #1 fired both shots. Officer #2 didn't even have a weapon drawn. Which looks bad on Officer #1
I'm still not sure if both shot, but I am almost certain both had guns drawn. The cop in the left portion of the screen has the gun in his right hand holding it close to his chest. Had to go full screen and half speed to really see that though.

Also, if you were right about Officer 2 not having a weapon then that wouldn't look bad for Officer 1, it would mean Officer 2 is an idiot. Guy has a dangerous weapon (brick) so Officer 2 should probably have a less than lethal weapon while Cop 1 has the gun.
 
Looked at the Attorney General website where this incident is listed as "under investigation". It only lists one cop as an "involved officer" while other incidents list multiple cops. Looks like only the one shot, but I still believe the other had his gun drawn.
 
it would mean Officer 2 is an idiot.

Officer #2 is not the one who escalated a public intoxication call in to a fatal shooting in a residential neighborhood. Hurr Durr, that guy has a brick and is not currently within throwing range of anyone, I think I'll just wander over close enough to make my self a target, then I've got that nice little house there as a back drop for my firearm after he has unsuccessfully deployed his only weapon.

Sure, it's Officer #2 that is the idiot.
 
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