Law THE POLICE SHOOTING/USE OF FORCE MEGATHREAD: discussions to determine if justified or not

Clearly, I don’t like, nor respect you. I wasn’t responding to you. I was responding to someone that identified themselves as this girls mother, and I did so in a respectful manner. I don’t agree with you. You don’t agree with me. Let it be and don’t tag me or respond to me anymore. I don’t want to ignore you because you will run your mouth regardless, but you’re not worth any effort or civil discussion

Lol, ignore me. You just want to be able to run your mouth and present yourself as an expert, without having your opinion challenged.

They 100% percent had ras to discuss the issue with her, and while doing so, they have every fucking right to tell her to exit the vehicle.

They literally had a discussion and concluded that they don't have RAS. See, at this point, actuall honest discourse would be you acknowledging that they didn't have RAS, since they said it with their own mouths. You do understand the concept of honest discourse? The conversation was captured on BWC 1, 2, and 3. "No threat, No trespassing, No Crime" It's difficult to articulate RAS after saying that. lmao

She was out in public when she was brandishing the knife while trying to enter someone else’s home

She knocked on their door, she rang their doorrbell. That's not a crime. Evidenced by the fact that the Officers all agreed that a
crime was not committed, AFTER seeing the Ring footage. If you think it's a crime, please cite the California Penal Code she violated? In the interest of honest discourse, of course.

There was a crime committed

Not if you take the responding Officers at their word. Which was that no crime was committed with the knife. You arguing they had RAS when they are on camera discussing and concluding that they in fact don't have RAS is pretty funny.

It’s not home base when she committed the crime in someone else’s property which she clearly had no regard for. And since there was a crime and a matter for public concern, the officers can question her and find out what is going on with her and they have every right to do that while ensuring she is unarmed.

Without RAS it is a voluntary police interaction on private property. Once she closes that car door, she is no longer volunteering to cooperate in their investigation. Nor is she required to. They need to leave at the point because the discussion is over. They need a warrant to open the door because she is in her property, on her property; and under zero obligation to cooperate with an investigation that could lead to criminal charges against her. They either have PC or RAS at that point, or they don't. They didn't by their own admission

These 2 Officers tesimony is going to be useless btw. They literally return to the scene and conduct an unlawful Terry stop, because 2 people were leaving because these 2 Cops just shot up their residence. They aren't suspected of any crime whatsoever. They also have no obligation to aid the officers investigation. A pattern of unreasonable searches and seizures can be established from watching about 6 minutes of BWC1 or 2., starting with them putting their hands on Harley.


Harley Quinn, and Buck Cherry "Crazy B" were my first thoughts.
 
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The Jason Meade murder trial started this week. This was the Franklin County SWAT deputy who was part of a joint federal task force that was looking for a perp in Columbus, Ohio.

Meade claimed that he started pursuing Casey Goodson after he saw Goodson waving a gun around in his car and then shot Goodson multiple times in the back after Goodson refused to follow orders and pointed the gun at him while Goodson was walking into his house.

The prosecution says that Goodson did have a gun on his person in a hostler, but Goodson had no criminal record and owned the gun legally. They also say that Goodson had airpods in his ears and was holding Subway sandwiches and his keys in each hand when he was shot.

No BWC footage because the department did not have them until public outrage following this incident (and several others).

Seems like the deputy mistook Goodson for his perp, approached Goodson from the rear when Goodson was walking into his house, and then fired his weapon after Goodson didn't respond to the commands that he couldn't have heard because he was listening to music.



 

Harley Quinn, and Buck Cherry "Crazy B" were my first thoughts.

I actually believe that the lady posting here is the mother so you guys alluding to being horny for her seemed like it would be awkward. However, she liked both posts so I guess it's not awkward.

J/K that makes it even more weird
 
I actually believe that the lady posting here is the mother so you guys alluding to being horny for her seemed like it would be awkward. However, she liked both posts so I guess it's not awkward.

J/K that makes it even more weird
ngl, She is younger than all but my youngest, and I feel grimy. I shall refer to her by her proper name of Kyrie Anna Liles moving forward and end the perverse Harley Fetish. That does her more good anyway. That account pm'd that they don't have permissions to post here☹️. But it did point me to what surely appears like Kyrie Anna Liles Mothers socials. Her name is Jamie Kristen.


@kyrieannas_mawm Also brings up a very valid point that neither the expert or I has yet to mention; At no point did the Officers identify themselves as police, and there wasn't a Police Car in sight. Terry and Mimms both require the Officer to identify himself as an Officer, and these Officers never did that. Moot point though, this was a consensual police encounter on private property that should have ended the moment Ms. Liles closed her car door.

Did you watch BWC2 where the Stormtroopers returned and ordered the people from the Explorer? The Mom says they actually transported those 2 to the jail and forced them to give statements. Not even sure if I can link to the 2 press releases issued by Jamie Kristen, @kyrieannas_mawm said the link to them she posted got removed.
 
Don't feel pressured to participate itt. I just tagged random WR mods knowing TS had tagged some of them. It was an irony laced joke. He begged for someone to come debate him on an in depth level.....until that someone showed up. Then I sat in his sand box and said "come outside and debate me" like a child, just as he did to others throughout the thread. Sorry if the irony missed some of you mods. The Mendoza line is stil in sight.

I know you aren't the one claiming to be an expert in all things Cop, but the vehicle wasn't a weapon, it was a means of escaping an unlawful seizure of her person. Since I've entered the thread, I've commented not only on the use of force used, but also the level of transparency of some of these briefings. This briefing was crap. About 1 minute prior to those cops trying to pull her from the vehicle, body worn cams #1, #2, and #3 all capture the discussion where they agree that no crime has been committed. It's impossible to articulate reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, unless you actually believe a crime was committed. Those Cops had ZERO lawful authority to open her car door or place hands on her.

Honest discourse....sure.
One of the officers is within the path of the open door when she put the car in reverse, he was forced to back out of the way to avoid being struck. She then shifted into drive and drove in the direction of the officer on the lawn. She could have easily used the street if she were just trying to escape, but she chose to act in the manner she did, thus the use of force response.
 
I actually believe that the lady posting here is the mother so you guys alluding to being horny for her seemed like it would be awkward. However, she liked both posts so I guess it's not awkward.

J/K that makes it even more weird
Whats the problem? Her daughter is attractive. She should be proud.
 
Whats the problem? Her daughter is attractive. She should be proud.
Didn’t say it was a problem, just said it was weird. If we were all sitting in a room together and someone implied they’d have sex with someone else’s daughter I’d think that’s odd
 
Lol, ignore me. You just want to be able to run your mouth and present yourself as an expert, without having your opinion challenged.



They literally had a discussion and concluded that they don't have RAS. See, at this point, actuall honest discourse would be you acknowledging that they didn't have RAS, since they said it with their own mouths. You do understand the concept of honest discourse? The conversation was captured on BWC 1, 2, and 3. "No threat, No trespassing, No Crime" It's difficult to articulate RAS after saying that. lmao



She knocked on their door, she rang their doorrbell. That's not a crime. Evidenced by the fact that the Officers all agreed that a
crime was not committed, AFTER seeing the Ring footage. If you think it's a crime, please cite the California Penal Code she violated? In the interest of honest discourse, of course.



Not if you take the responding Officers at their word. Which was that no crime was committed with the knife. You arguing they had RAS when they are on camera discussing and concluding that they in fact don't have RAS is pretty funny.



Without RAS it is a voluntary police interaction on private property. Once she closes that car door, she is no longer volunteering to cooperate in their investigation. Nor is she required to. They need to leave at the point because the discussion is over. They need a warrant to open the door because she is in her property, on her property; and under zero obligation to cooperate with an investigation that could lead to criminal charges against her. They either have PC or RAS at that point, or they don't. They didn't by their own admission

These 2 Officers tesimony is going to be useless btw. They literally return to the scene and conduct an unlawful Terry stop, because 2 people were leaving because these 2 Cops just shot up their residence. They aren't suspected of any crime whatsoever. They also have no obligation to aid the officers investigation. A pattern of unreasonable searches and seizures can be established from watching about 6 minutes of BWC1 or 2., starting with them putting their hands on Harley.



Harley Quinn, and Buck Cherry "Crazy B" were my first thoughts.

Again, showing your stripes making fun of a young woman in crisis in front of her mom. I guess trying to bring people down is the only way you can feel good about yourself.

By the people who called, she entered their backyard with a knife. I don’t much care what they said about not pursuing criminal charges. They very well might have discussed it and decided differently. Doesn’t matter. Her behavior prior definitely indicates that there was an issue that they needed to address. It’s not like they walked up on the wrong person or had no cause to speak with her. Based upon her actions, it definitely warranted checking her out to make sure she wasn’t a threat to anyone or herself. I am always willing to discuss any issue in “honest discourse,” just not with you because you are an asshole and your behavior and “honest discourse” is aggressive, fruitless, attempted belittling, etc. I called you out to discuss the cases I put time into breaking down. Rather than choose any one of those cases, you brought in a bunch of other cases. And a few posts ago, you begged mods and tagged them to try and get me banned or carded. Total bitch-made behavior.

And I am the one that wants to run his mouth? You kept tagging me and making insults when I was taking a break. That’s why I am not putting you on ignore because you would try to defame me without response. I have never put anyone on ignore or shied away from any discussion ever in my time here. I agree, it’s a weak tactic, but not quite as weak as reporting people like you do.

And despite my opinions on this matter, the mom messaged me and we are having a civil discussion. Very respectful and we are trying to understand each other’s viewpoints. I am very empathetic towards a mother in this situation and I am willing to point her in the right direction to the best of my ability, to address some of the more questionable aspects of the officers’ actions.
 
The Jason Meade murder trial started this week. This was the Franklin County SWAT deputy who was part of a joint federal task force that was looking for a perp in Columbus, Ohio.

Meade claimed that he started pursuing Casey Goodson after he saw Goodson waving a gun around in his car and then shot Goodson multiple times in the back after Goodson refused to follow orders and pointed the gun at him while Goodson was walking into his house.

The prosecution says that Goodson did have a gun on his person in a hostler, but Goodson had no criminal record and owned the gun legally. They also say that Goodson had airpods in his ears and was holding Subway sandwiches and his keys in each hand when he was shot.

No BWC footage because the department did not have them until public outrage following this incident (and several others).

Seems like the deputy mistook Goodson for his perp, approached Goodson from the rear when Goodson was walking into his house, and then fired his weapon after Goodson didn't respond to the commands that he couldn't have heard because he was listening to music.





I wish Goodson was on body cam because it seems questionable on both sides. They knew he wasn’t the guy they were looking for, but claimed he drove by and waved a gun at them. I actually believe that because he was found to have a gun on him, legal or not. How in the hell would an officer know he had a gun if he hadn’t waved it at them? I don’t know if the officer is telling the truth about him pointing the gun or not. While having subway is questionable violence based upon the nastiness seen in most of their establishments(other than the steak subs-their turkey and other meat is garabage). I would like to know where the gun was recovered from-in a holster or in his hand and whether the officer was in uniform or identified himself. Columbus pd has def had some questionable shootings (such as Andre hill-really bad shoot) but also some good ones that were still protested, and one that involved a shootout in an emergency room) had protesters break into a police station as well as the shooting of the girl that was actually in downward stab of an unarmed victim in Malia Bryant. I detailed a few of those shootings earlier in this thread(including Bryant and the guy in the emergency room), not that anyone read any of them. But my opinion on much of the criticism and coverage is because a. this was 2020, and b. Because of the race of the person shot. One of my biggest criticisms is that none of these protesters, activists, community leaders, politicians, media, ben crump, etc ever have a damn thing to say about the extremely high number of murders within the community. They only care about these deaths when it is a police officer or white person doing the shooting. Extremely hypocritical. Just look at George Floyd. No one in the entire world, save his family, would have ever given a shit about his death or wouldn’t even know his name had he been killed by another black person. It would maybe get a mention in the news-once and only once, and maybe after someone was convicted in his murder. But all these so called “activists” and community leaders would step over his body if he had overdosed without police involved. That is my biggest issue with these incidents.
 
The Jason Meade murder trial started this week. This was the Franklin County SWAT deputy who was part of a joint federal task force that was looking for a perp in Columbus, Ohio.

Meade claimed that he started pursuing Casey Goodson after he saw Goodson waving a gun around in his car and then shot Goodson multiple times in the back after Goodson refused to follow orders and pointed the gun at him while Goodson was walking into his house.

The prosecution says that Goodson did have a gun on his person in a hostler, but Goodson had no criminal record and owned the gun legally. They also say that Goodson had airpods in his ears and was holding Subway sandwiches and his keys in each hand when he was shot.

No BWC footage because the department did not have them until public outrage following this incident (and several others).

Seems like the deputy mistook Goodson for his perp, approached Goodson from the rear when Goodson was walking into his house, and then fired his weapon after Goodson didn't respond to the commands that he couldn't have heard because he was listening to music.




This will be a really interesting one. The two sides are wildly different in their accounts. I imagine the discovery phase of the trial Will get pretty wild.
 
Ok. All the complaining I do about anti-cop sentiment (when unwarranted) is in one media article.

Basically, this article has looked at Portland pd use of force records and found that a few individual officers use more force than the others. And these are minor uses of force according to the DOJ and article.

The opening line talks about one officer, Nicholas Wambold, who used force against a man in 2022. The suspect was intoxicated and was threatening and attacking people outside a bar. The officers tried to speak to him and then arrest him and he resisted. The officer then, shockingly, tries to forcibly arrest him. Oh my fucking god, the horror of what happens next. Resisting arrest for violence, the officer tries to handcuff the suspect, who starts to fight. The officer then puts the subject on the ground and forcibly handcuffs him. The suspect then refuses to get up and kick officers and the officers try three times to pick him up and put him on his feet. That’s it. End of story. Suspect not harmed. The worst thing that happened is that the officer placed him on the ground and after being forcibly handcuffed (ludicrousness on the part of an officer arresting a violent and resisting suspect!)

Anyway, this officer used minor force more times than any other officer-4x the number of times of MINOR use of force than the Portland pd average. He used force in 17 incidents in 2022.

Minor use of force is anything less than intermediate use of force(pepper spray, taser, baton) or deadly force (gun, vehicle, baton to the head, heavy strikes to the head).

Minor use of force is defined as “force that is intended to establish control of a resistant person, though not reasonably likely to cause persistent pain or physical injury.” Category IV force includes forceful handcuffing or pushing someone to keep them from running away, like Wambold’s actions outside the southeast Portland bar.”

The article then takes a more somber tone. He says on his final use of force in 2022, he shot and killed a man. Not much detail, so I looked it up, but the article makes it sound bad.

Wambold observed the vehicle of a man who had murdered a man the previous day in an incident that was recorded on camera. The suspect fled a vehicle stop and officers used spike strips to disable the vehicle. Once stopped, the suspect starts shootkng at officers through his windshield and they return fire, killing him. He was cleared by the Portland pd, DOJ (Portland is under consent decree) and a grand jury that ruled his actions reasonable.

Because of the consent decree by the doj, officers are required to report any arrest in which officers have any resistance during arrest, no matter how minor.

Thus, the article tries to make the numbers of 17 uses of force(all minor but the fatal shooting of a murder suspect shooting at police) seem like a big deal. This is portapottie land(Portland) and there is a good bit of crime there, so 17 uses of force in one year is not a big deal, especially when they consider shoving or forcibly handcuffing someone as use of force. I have used force more than 17 times in a single year and I have NEVER had a use of force complaint or been investigated for any use of force incident. And I don’t work in fucking Portland.

The article discusses how Wambold’s actions are trouble and signal a warning that he is a danger to the public. They quote multiple experts that talk about such warnings (my guess is that the experts were not told about the nature of the incidents and did not review any of the cases).

To my shock, one of the experts actually mentions the first thing that comes to my mind-what neighborhood does this officer work in? Turns out, it is a bad one. I worked bad neighborhoods my entire career by choice because I loved the action. I threw one punch (to the ribs) my entire career and used pepper spray a few times, taser once, baton 2-3 times, used chokes a few times before they became big “no no’s” and had to draw my gun a few dozen times. Never shot anyone, but came close a few times. Never seriously injured anyone.

So, this is my bitch. Anytime the media or activists talk about “police violence” they only mention the numbers. “Police shot and killed more people in 2023 more times than any other year since records were being kept.” That’s a fact. But no report actually ever looks into any of the incidents in question except the big ones like Tyre Nichols, who was brutally murdered in Memphis. But no attempt is made to look up each incident in any one city, let alone nationwide. No accounting of the number of armed suspects are made, no attempts to look up these incidents to make any remote attempt to decipher if they are justified. These numbers are available, but are not super easy to locate.

That has always been one of my bitches about looking at use of force. These numbers should be easy to find and quantitative and qualitative data should be collected and analyzed. The fbi doesn’t ask much when officers fill out a UCR (unified crime reporting) form. It asks if an officer or suspect are killed, whether they were armed and with what, but not much else.

You’re telling me that with all the media and their resources, they can’t be bothered to look this stuff up? The wash post started keeping track of all the fatal shootings and loves to shout that number, but they don’t ever report on any of those numbers and what’s behind them. Maybe by design so they can get outrage and clicks?

Imo, there should be someone that analyzes this info and completes a concise report of briefly what happened and if it is justified or not. And these numbers should be published and easily accessible. Police departments and a federal agency should be required to report what the results are.

My whole point is that you have news media that reports stuff like this to make it seem like this officer and others are so violent and brutal and corrupt. They are going off clicks and trying to hype George Floyd type of shit. They gave almost zero details about the shooting other than to say that the suspect was a suspect in a murder. They purposely left out the part where he fled from police and shot at them. I am trying to find the shooting of the suspect but I can’t find it yet.

More bullshit propaganda by news media trying to make it seem like Portland pd is allowing violent officers to remain with nothing being done. Here is the title of the article and first opening line.

Some Portland police use low-level force at a rate far higher than their peers.​

Portland police have been under federal scrutiny for problematic use of force for almost a decade, but little has changed.​


Here is also the first part of the article: “
Shortly after midnight on Aug. 29, 2022, Portland police Officer Nicholas Wambold responded to reports of an alleged assault outside a bar in southeast Portland. Witnesses described a man who had been threatening passersby and, when confronted, had punched someone in the face.

Upon arrival, Wambold and other officers encountered a 54-year-old man in the middle of the street, who appeared to be under the influence of drugs. Wambold described the man’s behavior as “erratic” and “abnormal” in his notes.

When Wambold tried to handcuff the man, the man reportedly curled up in a ball and pulled his arms away. According to officers’ notes, Wambold then “straddled” the man and forcibly snapped handcuffs on his wrists. After the man refused to stand and walk to a patrol car, Wambold and other officers tried to pick him up and lift him into the vehicle, while he reportedly flailed and kicked. They succeeded only after two failed attempts.

“No further force was used,” Wambold wrote in a Force Data Collection Report filed later that morning. In this report, which officers are required to fill out whenever they use force against someone, Wambold described four instances of force: the handcuffing and the three attempts to physically move the man into a patrol car.

According to data shared publicly by the Portland Police Bureau, this was the 15th time Wambold reported using force during an arrest in 2022. He’d use force two more times that year. While all of the types of force he used were considered minor, he reported using force at a rate five times higher than the average Portland officer in 2022.

Wambold, a patrol officer assigned to the Police Bureau’s East Precinct, is one of a handful of Portland police officers who consistently report using force against Portlanders at a yearly rate far higher than their peers.

According to PPB’s publicly available use of force data, most of the top 20 officers who reported using force most frequently in 2022 also appeared at the top of the list once in the five years prior. One officer appears in the top 20 ranking six years in a row.

Wambold was hired in 2019. In 2021, Wambold used force 11 times, nearly four times higher than the average officer. Incomplete data from 2023 shows that Wambold used force at least 10 times last year. The majority of this force is considered minor. But in April 2023, Wambold shot and killed a man suspected of murder.

The trend of the same few PPB officers using force frequently year after year isn’t new. Portland is under a settlement agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice over problematic police use of force. For years, a group of court-appointed advisers has raised concerns with this pattern, and police leaders have promised changes. But little has changed.





https://katu.com/news/local/grand-j...as-county-deputy-justified-in-deadly-shooting




https://www.opb.org/article/2024/02/02/portland-police-low-level-force-settlement-agreement/
 
One of the officers is within the path of the open door when she put the car in reverse, he was forced to back out of the way to avoid being struck. She then shifted into drive and drove in the direction of the officer on the lawn. She could have easily used the street if she were just trying to escape, but she chose to act in the manner she did, thus the use of force response.

The biggest factor for me was that she could have driven straight towards the neighboring house to give a wide berth away from the officer bit I think she was either trying to hit him or scare him
 
One of the officers is within the path of the open door when she put the car in reverse, he was forced to back out of the way to avoid being struck. She then shifted into drive and drove in the direction of the officer on the lawn. She could have easily used the street if she were just trying to escape, but she chose to act in the manner she did, thus the use of force response.

You can resist an unlawful seizure of your person with reasonable force. I hear the Spokesman in the Critical Incident Brief say "Thankfully, none of our Officers was injured" and also "The Suspect was taken to the Hospital for a gunshot wound". Not injuring anyone while you flee from an unlawful arrest and a hail of gunfire seems like a completely reasonable amount of force resisting. It's clear whose life was genuinely threatened, there are bullet holes in her, her car, and her house.
 
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I don't know if timestamps matter on restricted youtube videos, but I tried. Either way the video is less than three minutes and shows some funny cop work. Officer 1 goes Leroy Jenkins and tries to kick the door in twice before realizing it wasn't locked.

The showstopper is the lady cop though. She idenitifed the pool table in the room as the biggest threat and dispatched that bastard with a single shot. Shit situation though because there was a death and it wasn't the stabber.

 
I am very empathetic towards a mother in this situation and I am willing to point her in the right direction to the best of my ability, to address some of the more questionable aspects of the officers’ actions.

Did you explain to @kyrieannas_mawm that there are 3 types of Police/Civilian interactions. And explain what they are, and the police requirements for them?

1. Consensual encounters - These require neither reasonable suspicion or probable cause.
2. Investigative detentions(Terry stops) - These require reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that a crime has, is, or is about to be committed.
3. Arrests - These require Probable Cause(PC) that a crime has been committed.

Did you go on to tell her that when someone is detained without RAS that constitutes an unlawful arrest? Did you tell her that's exactly what happened when the Officer put his hands on her daughter(technically when he opened the door after she closed it) since he didn't have RAS? Did you also tell her that the Officer having a pattern of Constitutional violations destroys his credibility as a Witness?

Did you also go on to tell her that even if the "stop" portion of a Terry Stop and Frisk is valid, that that doesn't automatically justify the "frisk"? The frisk is only justified in the interest of Officer safety. The day of the incident, the Sac Sheriff spokesman said "a person wielding a knife can cover 7 yards faster than you can draw a gun." Using that logic, and the belief that Ms Liles is armed with a bladed weapon. The obvious conclusion is the Officers are safer with her in the vehicle, preferably with the car off and windows partially down.

Having her exit the vehicle actually exposes the Officers to greater danger than leaving her in the vehicle. Maybe they were concerned more with frisking her than Officer safety?

These 2 Officers unlawfully seized 3 people in the span of about 6-7 minutes. Not to mention the bullets flying around.

And the knives. What is the PC to enter the house for the knives?
 
Did you explain to @kyrieannas_mawm that there are 3 types of Police/Civilian interactions. And explain what they are, and the police requirements for them?

1. Consensual encounters - These require neither reasonable suspicion or probable cause.
2. Investigative detentions(Terry stops) - These require reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that a crime has, is, or is about to be committed.
3. Arrests - These require Probable Cause(PC) that a crime has been committed.

Did you go on to tell her that when someone is detained without RAS that constitutes an unlawful arrest? Did you tell her that's exactly what happened when the Officer put his hands on her daughter(technically when he opened the door after she closed it) since he didn't have RAS? Did you also tell her that the Officer having a pattern of Constitutional violations destroys his credibility as a Witness?

Did you also go on to tell her that even if the "stop" portion of a Terry Stop and Frisk is valid, that that doesn't automatically justify the "frisk"? The frisk is only justified in the interest of Officer safety. The day of the incident, the Sac Sheriff spokesman said "a person wielding a knife can cover 7 yards faster than you can draw a gun." Using that logic, and the belief that Ms Liles is armed with a bladed weapon. The obvious conclusion is the Officers are safer with her in the vehicle, preferably with the car off and windows partially down.

Having her exit the vehicle actually exposes the Officers to greater danger than leaving her in the vehicle. Maybe they were concerned more with frisking her than Officer safety?

These 2 Officers unlawfully seized 3 people in the span of about 6-7 minutes. Not to mention the bullets flying around.

And the knives. What is the PC to enter the house for the knives?

As I said, done with you: but I will say that you’re such a dick that the mom messaged me, a retired cop that doesn’t agree with her daughter’s actions over a cheerleader for her side. Why? She agrees that you are a dick and would rather not converse with someone like that. lol. Some defense attorney
 
As I said, done with you: but I will say that you’re such a dick that the mom messaged me, a retired cop that doesn’t agree with her daughter’s actions over a cheerleader for her side. Why? She agrees that you are a dick and would rather not converse with someone like that. lol. Some defense attorney

So you told her that you don't agree with her daughter's decision to resist a violent unlawful detention that posed a great risk to her personal safety?

You didn't agree with Kyrie Anna Liles life saving decision to flee that scene of violence to a well lit, busy interection, to allow her self to be taken safely in to custody without incident, in order to contest the matter in the appropriate venue....the Courtroom?

Did you explain to her the five conditions of Terry that must be satisfied PRIOR to an Officer placing his hands on a Civilian in search of anything? You've claimed to be an expert on Terry v Ohio for a long time, why can't you identify an unlawful stop and frisk encounter? Is it Police bias? Or is the subject just above your level of cognitive ability?
 
So you told her that you don't agree with her daughter's decision to resist a violent unlawful detention that posed a great risk to her personal safety?

You didn't agree with Kyrie Anna Liles life saving decision to flee that scene of violence to a well lit, busy interection, to allow her self to be taken safely in to custody without incident, in order to contest the matter in the appropriate venue....the Courtroom?

Did you explain to her the five conditions of Terry that must be satisfied PRIOR to an Officer placing his hands on a Civilian in search of anything? You've claimed to be an expert on Terry v Ohio for a long time, why can't you identify an unlawful stop and frisk encounter? Is it Police bias? Or is the subject just above your level of cognitive ability?

What exactly I tell her is her business. So, once again, fuck off
 
What exactly I tell her is her business. So, once again, fuck off

Then why tell me what you claim she told you. Presumably, she told you that in confidence in a private conversation. Why would betray the confidence of a private conversation, by mentioning the details of that conversation to me? That account also messaged me, and didn't say anything remotely like what you are claiming she said.


Again. I'm here for honest discourse about whether police shooting at Kyrie Anna Liles is justifiable or not. Whether the shooting is justifiable or not, depends on the whether the detention of Ms. Liles is lawful or not.

If you are no longer interested in that honest discourse.......you do have an ignore button.
 
@nhbbear

Do you think the discussion of Kyrie Anna Liles should be moved to the "What did the Police do wrong today" thread?

I mean, you do agree the Officers performing multiple seizures without RAS is Police wrongdoing, don't you? Or maybe the discussion deserves it's own thread about prosecutorial misconduct?
 
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