She is my daughter and I'm afraid for her. I feel like no one is listening...Youtube comments are insufferable. Most people aren't critical thinkers.
I don't think any punishment is warranted as her civil rights were violated; everything after that was self-defense. They are only charging her with ONE thing and that is assault so the burden of proof is on the DA to show she had malice of forethought or whatever they call it. I've talked to her PD and he said the other videos (intentionally withheld by the Sack Sheriff) will show she's innocent. If they want to charge her with something else, well that would be a different discussion; wouldn't it?
I cannot speak to drugs but I know her (now ex) boyfriend was drugging and exploiting her so there were likely drugs present. She was hypervigilant that day because she was sitting in her car discussing with (someone) about going to the police to get a GHB test and report him. The discharge paperwork I saw didn't show any drugs or alcohol present, but the DA claims they have a tox screen...I have yet to see it and I don't believe it was presented during the discovery.
Listen, I understand that you’re upset. Any parent would be. I was a cop for 18 years. Started in 2002 and retired in 2020 after having a career ending back surgery. During my career, I was the defensive tactics instructor and taser instructor for 13 of those 18 years. I have testified in hundreds of cases, criminally, and was called for depositions on lawsuits and some federal cases for police use of force. I was sworn in as a “use of force expert” on multiple cases, one even involving the death of a suspect. The family had filed a lawsuit. Not going into details on that one, but because of my testimony, the family did drop the lawsuit. I will not testify just to clear police because I was a cop, and I told both my department and the civil lawyers in that case or any case, but it was my assessment that the suspect’s actions warranted physical force and the result was a physical takedown and the subject fell to the ground and ended up dying from injuries that were accidental and not what would be expected from the level of physical force being used. Again, I can’t go into details because that would dox myself, and considering the amount of haters I have encountered in my 19 or so years on here, actually, 21 but my first account with the same name was ruled inactive because I only read threads at that point on mma, so I resigned up in 2005.
I will remain respectful and I am taking your feelings and understanding of the case into serious consideration during my response. You followed me and I feel you deserve a response. But fair warning, I am a verbose bastard who writes a shit ton.
Anyway, I will respond to you. I was tagged itt for this case by one such hater. I am not getting into it with him because shit went too far and got too personal, including making fun of me for depression and PTSD after being shot at, injured on duty multiple times(some seriously), and being stabbed/cut by a knife during a struggle in a vehicle by a suicidal subject that I was determined to prevent from harming himself or others. have always been very conservative with my personal use of force and the way I trained my officers. I have NEVER had any use of force complaints lodged against me. Never.
So, based on my assessment of the video and your statements, I have mixed feelings. I will explain as I go along. Whether mental issues (of which I am very understanding of) or drug intoxication, of which the information is not yet available, but based upon the crowd your daughter hung with(by your own statements) I would say it’s definitely a possibility that both drugs and mental illness are a strong possibility.
As for the reporting of domestic abuse, if she was on her way to the police station, she had several officers there that she could have spoken with about that, but she didn’t want to report it then for some reason. Her behavior was 100% off and something was going on with her. From the missing dog, which she called about(yet found somewhere-in her own house?), and reportedly tried to enter a house while armed with a butcher knife over, I would say that the officer’s were definitely warranted in speaking with her. It was arguably tresspassing and possibly brandishing, and because of officers knowing she was previously armed with a butcher knife, while they are legally conducting an investigation, they are permitted to order her out of the vehicle per PA vs Mimms to ensure she is not armed while speaking with officers. This case allows officers to order anyone out of a vehicle to ensure they are not armed. This is basically a vehicle extension of Terry v Ohio that allows a pat down for weapons only.
She was told politely, to exit the vehicle multiple times. I saw only professional behavior by the officers during that exchange. Her behavior previously and during this verbal exchange indicated that she was not thinking clearly and was acting strangely. I do, however, believe that had they told her “look, you went to a neighbor’s house, tried to open their door, while armed with a knife while looking for your dog. We want to make sure you are not armed with that knife at this moment while we speak to you about this situation. Please get out of the vehicle so we may check you for weapons.”
She again refused and the officers, who are investigating a possible crime or potential future threat to herself or others, and they are not going to simply walk away. If they did, and she went on to stab someone, they would be liable. That’s not going to happen. So when she refused to exit the vehicle after being given a lawful order by police, she is committing the crime of obstruction of justice, a simple misdemeanor, but one in the presence of police, so it is an arrestable offense. I do not have any issue with forcibly removing her from the vehicle based upon her odd behavior and the potential of being armed with a knife as well as a vehicle. She was not in any condition to be on the road due to drugs or mental illness. I don’t like the term “mental or emotional crisis” usually, because it is often used as an excuse for potentially harmful behavior. Sometimes, it is apt and should be apparent for officers on the scene, but it is often supplanted instead of stating that the subject was under the influence of drugs. Sometimes it is both. Recently, a woman got no jail time for stabbing and killing her boyfriend after she smoked weed, which is obsurd, because she was temporarily insane because she chose to use mind altering substances.
Anyway, at the time that she backed up, I don’t believe she placed any of the officers in danger and no shooting would have been appropriate because most police policies prohibit shooting at a moving vehicle simply for fleeing unless there was a violent felony and the subject is fleeing from that and poses an immediate risk to the public. This is covered under Tennessee vs Garner and Graham v Connor, both Supreme Court cases that dictate police use of force. Especially TN v Garner, which is explicitly applied when a fleeing felon is shot by police in which the need to stop that subject outweighs their fourth amendment rights to protect police or the public. An example would be an active shooter trying to flee. Obviously, your daughter does not fit this example.
Now, when the officer is running away and she drives forward through the yard at a higher rate of speed than he could flee, and she appears to be driving towards him, I am a bit mixed on whether the shots directed at her were appropriate. It was a residential neighborhood, which needs further discussion. Graham v Connor states that the use of force applied must be viewed from the officer’s perspective at the time the force is used. Did that officer believe his life was in danger at that moment? What did he feel, what did he think? And would a “reasonable police officer” with only the information available to the officer at that moment in time, believe that they would also be at risk of being seriously harmed or killed?
I do believe that at that moment, the officer potentially in her path would believe they were at risk. Likewise, I believe the officer behind her could have believed his partner was at risk. All it would take would be a sharper turn of the wheel and he could have been run over. Sorry, but mental crisis or drug use does not excuse driving towards an officer at a high rate of speed.
HOWEVER, with that said, continuing to fire their weapons at her once the threat has passed by the officer was not appropriate. Or at the very least, it is very iffy. The officers would have to explain that based upon TN v Garner, they believed she posed an immediate deadly threat to the community if allowed to escape. They would have to be able to explain adequately that they believed she had just tried to run over a police officer and if allowed to escape, would pose an immediate threat to the general public. Again, HOWEVER, I personally believe the officers continuing to fire at her while she was past the officers, presented a greater threat to the community than she did.
I hope your daughter gets the help she needs. She doesn’t seem like she was definitely trying to harm anyone, but she was definitely in poor mental state or intoxicated. No person should have to endure domestic abuse or unwarranted police violence, and if the bf was abusing her, I hope he gets the punishment he deserves. Likewise, no police officer should have to face the threat of being run over or potentially stabbed because a subject believes she doesn’t have to get out of the vehicle. Had she gotten out of the vehicle, I don’t believe she would have been arrested. I believe they wanted to figure out what the heck was going on with her and why she felt the need to try to enter someone else’s homes to get her dog that was absolutely not in their yard or house. She had absolutely no right to do so. She definitely trespassed when she entered their backyard and tried to enter the house. I believe one of those officers was in training, hence the other officer asking what he thought had occurred. But I don’t agree that no trespassing occurred, the people that called simply didn’t want to push the issue. I believe had your daughter simply gotten out of the vehicle, they would have asked her a. why did you think they had your dog, b. Why in the fuck were you carrying and waving a knife if you simply wanted to ask them if they had your dog, c. why in the ever loving fuck did you try to open their door like you had some right to do so? and d. where did you find your dog?-my guess is in her own house or running the neighborhood, but absolutely not in either of the neighbors’ yards/homes.
Like I said earlier, I will respond and answer any questions YOU have, but not the other bag of dicks that wanted to discuss this issue.
