"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

[grimballer]

Joined in 2008, 20,000 posts in a karate forum, how so illiterate?

All those guys you mention beat him.
2010 Nick embarrass Perry. Shields and Kim mop the floor with him. Woodley, Rory and Hendricks were already on the rise. WW-MWs much more complete than Perry as Misaki, Lawler or Marquardt would outclass him. BJ Penn, Donald among other LWs move up and take Perry to school. Paulo Thiago, Ricardo Almeirda, let alone Maia, among others in 2010 outgrapple Perry, they are not Mickey Gall, grimretard.
Kampmann or Santiago could be favourable matchups for him...he could lose too.
Evangelista Cyborg are the kind of match ups he would be getting...and still could end up getting submitted from what we've seen.

again that’s all speculation

the reality is Perry has wins over Ellenberger and Oliveira. Guys who have wins over: condit, shields, koscheck, Sanchez, Marquardt, Matt Brown...

Bj penn literally beat one guy in ufc as ww and that was relic Hughes.

You simply don’t know what you’re talking about

 

[Intellidamus]

And yet guys with no tdd, like hardy and condit, were getting title shots during Fitchs era...

so much for his point about “overall ability has dropped”



Also Perry did beat Ellenberger (guy who has wins over top guys from that era in koscheck and shields) and Oliveira (guy who choked out another top guy from that era in condit)

that’s what actually happen, not what you think (with your limited knowledge) what would happen

Ellenberger’s victory over Shields is worth nothing. Shield’s dad died 3 weeks prior to the fight.

 

[grimballer]

Ellenberger’s victory over Shields is worth nothing. Shield’s dad died 3 weeks prior to the fight.

yeah there’s always an excuse for a loss...

the reality is there nothing to suggest that fight would go any differently

shields had sub par striking and got blasted by a power puncher with good wrestling

 

[Intellidamus]

yeah there’s always an excuse for a loss...

the reality is there nothing to suggest that fight would go any differently

shields had sub par striking and got blasted by a power puncher with good wrestling

Good point, having your dad die so close to a fight probably wouldn’t change much.
Either you’re a warrior or a little bitch.

Edit: “power puncher with good wrestling”
Thank god Shields never faced someone like Hendo.

 

[grimballer]

Good point, having your dad die so close to a fight probably wouldn’t change much.
Either you’re a warrior or a little bitch.

His dad dying had nothing to do with him being a sub par striker going against power puncher with good tdd.

 

[pankrat]

You simply don’t know what you’re talking about

Also Perry did beat Ellenberger (guy who has wins over top guys from that era in koscheck and shields) and Oliveira (guy who choked out another top guy from that era in condit)

that’s what actually happen, not what you think (with your limited knowledge) what would happen

This thread is about discussing Fitch's stance.
You definitely dont know better than Jon Fitch .
Your knoewledge:

mike perry would be one of the most complete fighters in 2010.

About 50 embarrassing posts you have deliver in this thread already. Obsessed. Declared the official clown in this thread long time ago iits about time you go litter any other thread

 

[Cuttyrock]

Ken Shamrock probably agrees with him

 

[grimballer]

This thread is about discussing Fitch's stance.
You definitely dont know better than Jon Fitch .
Your knoewledge:






About 50 embarrassing posts you have deliver in this thread already. Obsessed. Declared the official clown in this thread long time ago iits about time you go litter any other thread

In other words You got destroyed with facts in your own thread and are now begging me to stop and leave you alone?

You need a “safe space”?




sure, I don’t like picking on mentally challenged anyways...

 

[cmw43]

And yet guys with no tdd, like hardy and condit, were getting title shots during Fitchs era...

so much for his point about “overall ability has dropped”



Also Perry did beat Ellenberger (guy who has wins over top guys from that era in koscheck and shields) and Oliveira (guy who choked out another top guy from that era in condit)

that’s what actually happen, not what you think (with your limited knowledge) what would happen

Hardy's run wasn't impressive, GSP was just running out of contenders, most people at the time said Hardy didn't deserve a shot.

Ellenberger was beyond shot by that time.

Before all his knee injuries Condits combo of high level striking with great BJJ was enough to be an elite fighter. Usually a better striker and if he got taken down he was dangerous enough on the floor to beat the guy up from the bottom and force a stand up, check out his fight with Rory Mac.

 

[grimballer]

Hardy's run wasn't impressive, GSP was just running out of contenders, most people at the time said Hardy didn't deserve a shot.

Ellenberger was beyond shot by that time.

Before all his knee injuries Condits combo of high level striking with great BJJ was enough to be an elite fighter. Usually a better striker and if he got taken down he was dangerous enough on the floor to beat the guy up from the bottom and force a stand up, check out his fight with Rory Mac.

Hardy still got a title shot and was ranked as low as 5 in a “deep” division.

again ts argued that it was same as Al Iaquinta fighting for the vacant title, which is absurd. Al was last minute replacement after top contender got injured and other 2 replacements weren’t cleared by ac.

Also both Ellenberger and condit started losing in their early 30s, which are prime years in mma.

You can say they were past their prime, I can say they just started facing better fighters....

the reality is condit never had good tdd and would lose against grapplers with good sub d.

Ellenberger is explosive with power and wrestling, however he would lose if his opponent isn’t slow, has good tdd and good striking.

 

[pankrat]

This is a silly statement. You sound like a noob. For a while there, no one except GSP could stop Fitch, and it was a HUGE statement for GSP to dominate Fitch like he did. Fitch cleaned out the division almost as thoroughly as GSP with the exception of GSP.

You can't say Fitch cleaned out the division even close "as throughly" as GSP.
Fitch himself says in the podcast that he should've faced more prominent WWs of his generation given the amount of time he was ranked #2 in the division.

Fitch faced four WW tittle challengers during his stint in UFC - Alves, BJ, Hendricks and Maia - and he is 1-2-1 vs them.
He also beat Shields later in his career, but far from his best version.

I'd say his #2 spot was rather inflated and there was some 170lber apart from GSP who I'd have favoured to beat him but he was still unanimously considered a top5 WW for about half a decade, and rightfully so.
He was riding a 13-1 run in UFC at some point which is impressive.

All in all, Fitch has a solid case to be a top10 WW of all-time imo

 

[jsbx45]

You can't say Fitch cleaned out the division even close "as throughly" as GSP.
Fitch himself says in the podcast that he should've faced more prominent WWs of his generation given the amount of time he was ranked #2 in the division.

Fitch faced four WW tittle challengers during his stint in UFC - Alves, BJ, Hendricks and Maia - and he is 1-2-1 vs them.
He also beat Shields later in his career, but far from his best version.

I'd say his #2 spot was rather inflated and there was some 170lber apart from GSP who I'd have favoured to beat him but he was still unanimously considered a top5 WW for about half a decade, and rightfully so.
He was riding a 13-1 run in UFC at some point which is impressive.

All in all, Fitch has a solid case to be a top10 WW of all-time imo

Oh god, another noob.

 

[Claude]

WW's and MW's are better than ever.

HW's and LHW's are a lot weaker than 15 years ago.

 

[Blond]

Don't see why it'd drop, but it probably hasn't evolved much. The only obvious improvement is in the weightcutting department.

 

[Hirashin]

Evolution of mma has stopped somewhere around Fedor vs CC fight.

 

[grimballer]

The closest to a complete fighter you say...

Hey look!

It’s simple pankrat desperate for attention again

 

[pankrat]

Yup!

 

[Aluminati]

I think it evolves but more at a tactical than technical level - definitely not stagnant.
This decade it has evolved a lot in lighest weighclass and WMMA, becuse of money and talent pool.
At heavier weightclass not that much. At HW you could even argue its stagnant

A HW just scored a KO with a spinning back wheel kick this weekend. The game is still changing, just not as fast as it used to.

 

[pankrat]

A HW just scored a KO with a spinning back wheel kick this weekend. The game is still changing, just not as fast as it used to.

We saw a kick like that from Shawn Jordan vs a better opponent in Derrick Lewis long time ago. Obviously, it says nothing.

Probably you are right though, the game is still changing but Fitch made several valid points.
I do think you see guys getting at the top or even tittle shots without barely having their grappling tested, especially in certain divisions.

Look at Darren Tilll, for example. Former tittle challenger and top ranked for quite some years yet until he fought Brunson we had not seen how good his wrestling was. He literally had not faced anybody willing to test him in that regard. And surprise: it was very dissapointing.

 

[PalmStrike]

Let me know when it evolves past the chit Mighty Mouse did in his insane run...