The Hook Debate: Palm in or Palm down? (17 threads mashed together, have fun)

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Err no it isnt.

err yes it is

you are more likely to injure your hand hooking with it like that

 

[Brian Tellis]

the way ive always been taught, and the way i teach, is with your thumb on top. That way the first two knuckles and your metacarpals are in line with your arm bones, also having my thumb facing in feels really wierd for me to try and get any power behind it and hurts my wrist more if i mess up.

 

[Da Speeit]

Thumb on top, son.

Youre going to risk a break with it horizontal.

 

[Shark Week]

the way i understand it is this

vertical fist goes with a regular hook

horizontal fist goes with a corkscrew hook

45 degree fist goes with a shovel hook

 

[AXelator]

err yes it is

you are more likely to injure your hand hooking with it like that

Only if strike with the outsdie of your knuckled.

In Thailand they etach to throw the hook with the palm facing down, like I said, for the elbow if you miss, It's not awkard at all it's just different.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Only if strike with the outsdie of your knuckled.

In Thailand they etach to throw the hook with the palm facing down, like I said, for the elbow if you miss, It's not awkard at all it's just different.

and exactly how often do you see this transition from a missed hook to a elbow?

its a nifty idea but the likelihood of it being used is rare

that and the fact that the fist is kept horizontal makes it harder to land with the first two knuckles thus increasing the chance of damaging your hand because your often going to land the last two

 

[AXelator]

and exactly how often do you see this transition from a missed hook to a elbow?

its a nifty idea but the likelihood of it being used is rare

that and the fact that the fist is kept horizontal makes it harder to land with the first two knuckles thus increasing the chance of damaging your hand because your often going to land the last two

It happens all the time, especially in boxing. In fighter misses with a hook to the head and instead ends up hitting them with his forearm and occasionaly the elbow. I used to throw it vertically, but since then I've had about 10 thai trainers tell me to throw is horizontally. Since it's there sport I'm inclined to listen to them.

 

[fightingrabbit]

like this..

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

It happens all the time, especially in boxing. In fighter misses with a hook to the head and instead ends up hitting them with his forearm and occasionaly the elbow. I used to throw it vertically, but since then I've had about 10 thai trainers tell me to throw is horizontally. Since it's there sport I'm inclined to listen to them.

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=LUhPbnN4cWuRpNzFvR1k&muay-thai-learning-the-hook

yes and when you watch this video you can see why keeping the fist horizontal is awkward

1. it raises your elbow and exposes your side more
2., it hinders the movement of putting your back into the strike and becomes more of an arm punch

if the elbow or forearm does land off the missed punch it would be if your opponent moves into your range typically if you miss with the punch your elbow will miss as well unless your opponet moves in after the punch and that an IF


and if he does you can still hit him with your forearm or elbow if the fist is kept vertical

think about it the elbow is in the same postion no matter how your fist is kept either way

 

[thirteen]

The ts highlights a problem of training two
different styles/sports, namely if two coaches
tell you two different things which one is correct?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

The ts highlights a problem of training two
different styles/sports, namely if two coaches
tell you two different things which one is correct?

you have to decide that for yourself

its never a god idea to blindly follow a teacher:icon_chee

 

[Marvin Covar]

The ts highlights a problem of training two
different styles/sports, namely if two coaches
tell you two different things which one is correct?

Whatever works for you.

 

[nogistudent]

Y'know, I saw a thread like this a year ago or so... and the answers seemed pretty much evenly divided. And everyone was dead certain they were right.

 

[AXelator]

Muay Thai Learning The Hook - VidoEmo - Emotional Video Unity

yes and when you watch this video you can see why keeping the fist horizontal is awkward

1. it raises your elbow and exposes your side more
2., it hinders the movement of putting your back into the strike and becomes more of an arm punch

if the elbow or forearm does land off the missed punch it would be if your opponent moves into your range typically if you miss with the punch your elbow will miss as well unless your opponet moves in after the punch and that an IF


and if he does you can still hit him with your forearm or elbow if the fist is kept vertical

think about it the elbow is in the same postion no matter how your fist is kept either way

1. Your elbow is meant to be high with your forearm paralel to the ground when throwing a hook to the head.

2. What? That just isn't true.

3. Watch any insdie boxer like Tyson and you will see him ocassionally missing with the hook to the head after smashing the body but his forearm or elbow will stick hit them, his opponents used to complain about this. Yes, I know tyson threw vertical hooks which leads to point 4.

4. Yes you will still hit them with the elbow on a vertical hook, however you're mucuh more likely to cut them with the elbow turned out by throwing a hook horizontally making it more useful for muay thai.


In k1 and boxing I agree the vertical feels better, in Muay Thai and maybe MMA the horizontal hook works better, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Frode Falch]

its not like its only one answer to this question..

 

[Oblivian]

Wouldn't a lot of the power of the punch be lost with a horizontal fist? I would imagine that once you turn your hand over, it would bring your elbow exaggeratedly up and away from your body, thus losing power.

 

[polsarc]

-More than one way to hook, I'm sure every striking coach says something different
-I prefer thumbs on top, I can throw harder without fear of injuring it
-I also train with thumbs down, palm out, elbows up type of "hook" + step forward.

 

[Pro Killer]

Firstly: To address the dude on the bottom of the first page, In Muay Thai you do get taught very short hooks with fist vertically to elbow people on the follow through so yes quite often how about watch some proper Muay Thai not MMA or K-1 etc....


To the Thread, We get a thread every other fucking month asking about it, I've even started one myself because I decided to go against my trainers wishes, I was taught Horizontal but I kept hurting my thumb, So I started using a vertical fist immitating the Assistant trainer and I've felt not only is my hook more powerful but It protects by hand more. I think it's personal preference really!

 

[ssullivan80]

If your going to throw an elbow, just throw an elbow, not a hook with a back-up plan!

If your going to throw a hook, throw a hook, and i don't care who tells you that a horizontal fist is the correct way to throw a hook, it is absolutely not. An overhand lead left may be used with a vertical fist, but a hook is thrown by pivoting, rotating the shoulders and lifting the elbow (thumb up) as you deliver the hook. The fist may turn vertical on the follow through, but at impact, thumb up!

The primary reason for this (and there are several others), a vertical fist allows you to tuck your chin into your lead shoulder and protect it from getting hit. A vertical fist also keeps the punch (your elbow really) tighter to your body, which puts more mass behind the punch. A vertical fist hook also gives you better range control, allowing you to extend or retract the hook mid-swing more effectively. Lastly, if you miss with a horizontal fist, your much easier to counter. A vertical fist hook allows you, just at/after impact to pull the hook (rolling the wrist like you would arm wrestling) back in towards your sternum, with the point of your elbow aimed right at the opponents chest. This is how you snap a hook through the target without, lunging or swinging wildly. If thrown across the chin correctly, it creates the whipping effect, causing your opponents head snap back n forth = night night!

See below, rumor has it these guys had pretty good hooks.

 

[AXelator]

Every example you gave was a boxer, like I said in boxing and k1 throw it vertically. Muay Thai is not boxing.