Social The Divided States of America - A discussion of the problems and potential solutions.

[avenue94]

Go look at what the left is still trying to do to Kirk even now.

So no there can be no peace or "coming together".

What is "the left" trying to do with Kirk?

 

[Rod1]

What is "the left" trying to do with Kirk?

Probably spreading conspiracy theories about being killed by his gay lover.

Or claiming its a nothingburger like the Minnesota guy who wanted to kill all Democrat lawmakers.

 

[avenue94]

Probably spreading conspiracy theories about being killed by his gay lover.

Or claiming its a nothingburger like the Minnesota guy who wanted to kill all Democrat lawmakers.

Ah yes, the Left, which is headquartered at The Left HQ on 123 Commie Way in DC or whatever. Yup.

 

[oldshadow]

What is "the left" trying to do with Kirk?

Using clips out of context to try and act like he deserves what happened to him. Just blame him for what happened to him on his beliefs. This includes people like Crockshit that is a member of congress as well as other members of congress.

Talk shit about his wife.

Go after any "star" that send their condolences.

They have the freedom to do that and I would not change it.

However fuck this bullshit of "can't we get along and be nice".

We need to keep it legal but any weapon that is legal to defend and attack those that attack us.

 

[avenue94]

Using clips out of context to try and act like he deserves what happened to him. Just blame him for what happened to him on his beliefs. This includes people like Crockshit that is a member of congress as well as other members of congress.

Talk shit about his wife.

Go after any "star" thst send there condolences.

They have the freedom to do that and I would not change it.

However fuck this bullshit of "can't we get along and be nice".

We need to keep it legal but any weapon that is legal to defend and attack those that attack us.

What leading figures of the left are trying to justify his killing?

As I've said previously, Kirk was a hateful man, so it's not surprising many people aren't bawling over his death.

If you want to argue he deserves the grace he didn't much provide to his targets because that's the high road or Christian thing to do, go for it. But it's rich that suddenly Kirk has become a saint beyond reproach or criticism in death.

And what are these legal to use weapons you want folks to use? You were an extremist before his death, so I'm not surprised that's your response.

 

[oldshadow]

What leading figures of the left are trying to justify his killing?

As I've said previously, Kirk was a hateful man, so it's not surprising many people aren't bawling over his death.

If you want to argue he deserves the grace he didn't much provide to his targets because that's the high road or Christian thing to do, go for it. But it's rich that suddenly Kirk has become a saint beyond reproach or criticism in death.

And what are these legal to use weapons you want folks to use? You were an extremist before his death, so I'm not surprised that's your response.

Look at Crockett look at some of the "squad".

I want the left/democrats to keep doing just what they have been doing.

I dont expect people that didn't like him to be upset he is dead but that's different then finding joy in it.

Charlie had his faults and I disagreed with some of his views. He and everyone knew tha..

Weapons, all that are legal. Cancel culture and every weapon the left/democrats use plus any other legal weapon we can use that are legal. Not weapons like you want to make it. Im not talking about physical harm.

I dont support physical going after people but defending yourself is legal.

Me and extremist, well I guess to some like you I am. After all you believe that about anyone that disagrees with you.

 

[aerius]

There's much more I could say but I'd have to gather my thoughts. There's the typical stuff, like money out of politics, reinstating old regulations, rank choice voting, etc, but Capital always breaks those chains and reverses those wins eventually, I think it's time for an evolution, something more enlightened. The infinite growth model is simply unsustainable, our entire system of governance is outdated. Trump just pressed the accelerator on an already deteriorating system and is showing its flaws and limitations, he's capitalized on people's legitimate grievances by introducing boogeymen for them to direct their ire at, unfortunately those boogeymen are human beings.

I don't really have answers beyond that overall hierarchy should be questioned and discarded if it's not valid and happiness and sustainability should be prioritized.

I'm starting to think a hybrid system of some sort based on what China & Russia are experimenting with these days could be part of the answer, though I'm not sure how Americans can be convinced to adopt a similar system unless everything goes up in flames first. We need a way to do 10-50 year plans so that we can actually build large infrastructure projects and reform the education, healthcare, and financial systems without the government reversing direction and fucking things up every 4 years.

Communism doesn't work, socialism can work but not in America, and unfettered capitalism always ends up with regulatory & government capture to the detriment of the people which is where the US is right now. Unfortunately I don't see a path towards fixing things unless the current power & money structure is purged, and I don't think that can happen peacefully.

 

[avenue94]

Look at Crockett look at some of the "squad".

Care to link what they said/posted?

I dont expect people that didn't like him to be upset he is dead but that's different then finding joy in it.

Is that different from how Trump handled McCain's death?

Me and extremist, well I guess to some like you I am. After all you believe that about anyone that disagrees with you.

No, but when someone is spouting extremist rhetoric such as the below, I'll call them one.

However fuck this bullshit of "can't we get along and be nice".

We need to keep it legal but any weapon that is legal to defend and attack those that attack us.

So no there can be no peace or "coming together".

Something tells me that if I were to look at your posts in BLM threads, I'd see you accusing the protestors of fomenting violence by chanting No Justice, No Peace.

 

[Jeffy37]

I know you don't have balls to share your picture on here. It's easy to talk shit hiding behind a screen

 

[oldshadow]

Care to link what they said/posted?

Is that different from how Trump handled McCain's death?

No, but when someone is spouting extremist rhetoric such as the below, I'll call them one.


Something tells me that if I were to look at your posts in BLM threads, I'd see you accusing the protestors of fomenting violence by chanting No Justice, No Peace.

Its easy to look up what they have said just Google it.

I said what I did because its true. The democrats just want to try and minimize the damage this does to them. They will go back to it hell they haven't stopped now trying their best to smear Kirk to minimize damage.

You know nothing about me.

 

[avenue94]

Its easy to look up what they have said just Google it.

I said what I did because its true. The democrats just want to try and minimize the damage this does to them. They will go back to it hell they haven't stopped now trying their best to smear Kirk to minimize damage.

You know nothing about me.

As far as I can tell Crockett's remarks were that her rhetoric didn't cause Kirk's death, and that there's a difference between rhetoric criticizing Trump and calling for physical violence.
https://www.newsweek.com/jasmine-crockett-rejects-violence-claims-charlie-kirk-death-2129434
Am I missing something?

And one doesn't need a crystal ball to see your plainly extremist rhetoric in thread after thread to see your a bitter old man full of anger toward large swathes of his countrymen.

And what smears of Kirk are we talking about?

 

[Rod1]

Using clips out of context to try and act like he deserves what happened to him. Just blame him for what happened to him on his beliefs. This includes people like Crockshit that is a member of congress as well as other members of congress.

Who says he deserves it?

Talk shit about his wife.

Ironic considering that when Pelosi's husband was almost murdered when a guy tried to kill Pelosi the right only mocked her and began saying shit about gay lovers and other insane shit

However fuck this bullshit of "can't we get along and be nice".

MAGA began and will die as a hate platform that thrives on division, that's why 99% of Trump's ads were about the other side never about what they intended to do when they got power like Project 2025, without hate the right has NOTHING, because their policies have been shit since forever

We need to keep it legal but any weapon that is legal to defend and attack those that attack us.

Im sure Kirk owned a gun, that didn't served him much

 

[Rod1]

And one doesn't need a crystal ball to see your plainly extremist rhetoric in thread after thread to see your a bitter old man full of anger toward large swathes of his countrymen

You can see they are looking for any excuse to lash out against others because they can't defend orange cheetard president Trump disastrous governing.

Tariffs, America giving up on allies, destroying American institutions and filling them with incompetent people, without hate they have nothing to latch onto.

 

[oldshadow]

Who says he deserves it?


Ironic considering that when Pelosi's husband was almost murdered when a guy tried to kill Pelosi the right only mocked her and began saying shit about gay lovers and other insane shit


MAGA began and will die as a hate platform that thrives on division, that's why 99% of Trump's ads were about the other side never about what they intended to do when they got power like Project 2025, without hate the right has NOTHING, because their policies have been shit since forever


Im sure Kirk owned a gun, that didn't served him much

Plenty on the left making excuses and his "hate speech" the reason he was assassinated.

Pelosi was taking shit and calling Trump all kinds of things but that doesn't excuse anyone celebrating the attack on her husband.

The democrats have gone out of their mind on Trump and anyone that supported him in anyway since he ran the first time. There whole platform is now "orange man bad" and "all the people that voted for him are Nazis".

So what's you point with owning a gun when my post had nothing to do with it.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Alright so I have a few things I'd like to discuss. I'd appreciate if people could answer in good faith and not the typical whatabout team play horse shit that leads nowhere. This is about discussing ideas, not specific individuals or groups.

Freedom of Speech vs Dangerous Rhetoric

Is the current implementation of Freedom of Speech adequate for our society in the year 2025? As it stands, calling someone a Fascist, Nazi, Communist, Marxist, et cetera is covered under the First Amendment in virtually every instance. In the wake of recent events, many people argue that this particular kind of rhetoric incites violence. Does that matter?

Who determines what's dangerous and what's not? This is where the argument starts to break down. What if you have a Government or SCOTUS that determines that calling one side a certain thing constitutes dangerous speech, but doing the same to the other side is totally fine? Beyond that, is so-called dangerous speech dangerous if it's true? That gets to the real heart of the issue, and why the First Amendment is as important as it is. Because if you do have a Fascist candidate or Government, you can't have a society where calling a spade a spade is illegal.

In my opinion The First Amendment does not need to be changed, and in fact I think doing so to exclude the aforementioned would be far more dangerous than leaving it alone. In my opinion, free speech is not the problem.

Individual vs Collective and the dangers therein with regards to sowing division in the country.

This is a more complex topic, but I've come to the conclusion that it's at the epicenter of the division in this country that has been accelerating for the last decade or more. If you want to see it first hand, you need only go to the Charlie Kirk thread.

When a bad actor on one "side" does something bad in this country, it becomes nothing more than a cudgel with which to cast aspersions upon all of your perceived political enemies, while further cementing the justifications for your own hatred and political viewpoints. You could throw that thread straight into the Heavies, because it's functionally no different than a PBP thread where people are hoping their guy wins and the other guy loses. It's a disturbing result of how tribal and hateful we've become as a society.

As most of you (I'm assuming the majority of us are 30+ at this point) know, this is not how things used to be. When Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold massacred 14 people nobody was waiting with baited breath hoping they turned out to be trannies, migrants, or hillbillies so that "their side" would pick up a win. It was a loss for us all, as it should be.

So why is this such a popular thing now? Well it's far easier to generalize. It's far easier to hate a collective. It's far easier to place blame on an ideology if you can cherry pick bad actors and apply the label to the entire group. And most importantly, picking sides and blaming the collective invariably leads to perpetual hatred. Why? Because there will always be bad actors on both sides. If that's enough to start a war, then we will forever be at war, and there will never be a solution to this problem. In this scenario we all lose, but somebody out there wins. Who is it?

And when did it change? And what were the key factors? Partisan news, social media, and a general decline in political decorum?

Is it because society has completely gone to shit? Fun fact: most crime—violent or otherwise—is down substantially from where it was in the 90s. But peoples' perception of that rate of crime is far higher than it was in the 90s. Except hate crimes. Those are up significantly.

So what conclusion do you draw from that? Sensationalist 24 hour news media skewing peoples' perception immediately comes to my mind. When you have to fill 24 hours of news content, and outrage brings the most engagement, outrage becomes the headline, every day.

And how about our politicians? Compare them now to what they were 30 years ago. Compare the time they spend governing to the time they spend sowing division and engaging in culture war rhetoric.

Another avenue that absolutely must be explored is foreign actors. Asymmetric warfare utilizing social media, streaming, influencers, and online news entities in order to destabilize a nation. We know it happens. How much of a factor does it play?

There's a lot more I'd like to say, and several other topics that I'd like to add, but that's enough to get started.

Speak.

The billionaire class has identified working people as a threat to their power and privilege.

They don’t feel safe unless workers are terrified, under siege, hating one another.

There are some fundamentally opposing viewpoints sort of woven into right and left in the USA as a result of the two party system.

These are amplified using media. The goal is to prevent compromise on even widely popular ideas like Medicare for all, etc, to maintain the status quo.

A lot of people have decided to support whoever appears to represent change the most, to ruin the status quo from whatever direction they can.

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

The US is pretty much fcked. Canada....also fcked but in different ways. North America in general is fcked. Honestly has been for a while. Find a better, more progressive and forward thinking rock to plant your ass on. Several nations which are infinitely better to choose from. Make a 3-5 year plan and leave. Dont waste time. No hope in North Murica.

 

[Azure]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that many people have leftist views. I think the Internet makes it seem like there is

Yeah but the Dem's focus on pleasing the small loud minority which is why they lost. I would say 70% of the population is is between Center-Left and Center-Right. Then you have the more hardcore moving to the fringe lunatics. The 15% on the left are noisy and the 10% on the right. The last 5% is where the line on the right exist and you have the actual Nazi's and white supremacists that most people on both side understand are too far on the spectrum. The left does not have this line or it has not been reached yet and that why the left jump over each other to try to out be the most "progressive".

 

[Hellowhosthat]

The truth? Me included?
We have to stop thinking we are special or righteous in our ideals. Stop coagulating together with those with ideals we used to abhor. Eventually, there's going to have to be compromise.
You're trans? Congrats, someone is gonna dislike you. Arbitrarily hate you. Straight white male? Same. Successful black female? Same. Poor Jewish family? Free Palestine. People are varying degrees of stupid and brilliant, kind and mean, informed and ignorant. It's a synthesis.

If you really just step out of the echo chamber, and start discriminating the craziness, you start to realize just how fucking stupid everyone sounds. And, hey! There's money to be made on that. The disgusting thing is when a leftist/rightist thinks some corporation is behind your ideals. They don't call you a customer, they call you a 'strategy'. Come the fuck on. Target doesn't care about trans people. They just want to sell shit and not get sued. The ONLY ideal in the top rungs of society, the real shot callers, is the endless pursuit of money. When you get that big, what else is there to chase? We all get divided up, preyed upon, have algorithms targeting us. Every sense you have has been deconstructed and weaponized against you throughout modern history. They know all the buttons to push, all the words to say, all the images to show.

We are divided because we choose to be. Everyone knows the problem, recognizes it, but just plays along. There are awful people of all representation. It's not hard to figure out, really, it's just the dopamine doomscrolling outrage everyone is addicted to. Jump off it. Realize that you should protect the liberty of others, no matter their views or persuasion. Because, really, it's about who should come out with the best ideas to bring us together and help everyone. Not divide, play victim politics, anger fits. Stop treating people like they are above or below you. We are all in it together to figure out, not to delegate for someone else to. If you are getting your political agendas from people like Ben Shapiro, Gavin Newsome, Andrew Breitbart, Joe Rogan... well, that's on you for not being critical. These people only say things because ratings go up and money flows in. You think this should would continue if everyone was like, "Woah, wait a fucking minute. This is ALL bullshit."

Take it for what it is. It's just time open your horizons to things you aren't comfortable admitting and call what's crazy, crazy. On both sides. Trans people deserve acknowledgement and respect. White people shouldn't be judged on actions that aren't theirs. The majority of whites, believe it or not, AREN'T racist drooling, Tom Hanks type Republicans.

Stop thinking you are special. You live in a world that would eat us all alive if it could. We need each other.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read in the war room. Cheers Sherbro.

 

[ShadowRun]

If someone credible starts this thread I’m interested. But not someone who’s never shown any capacity for open minded conversation.

100

 

[Seano]

Its going to take a generation or two for woke culture to eat itself, maybe our grandkids will get along.