The difference between Trump and Rubio/Kasich's appeal in a nutshell

[Squarechoke]

Sticking with the main reason I presented on my first post for the support for Trump.

People are sick of the establishment. Not just the uneducated like myself. The fact the media and politicians hate him only make the people love him more.

The regular media even sees that and reports that. Ya'll can keep trying to pick at me for WHY I support him, but I don't represent all the voters in all the states he won. But at least I am smart enough to know why he's doing so well. We're experiencing a non violent revolution.

I haven't attacked you for supporting anyone, I was responding to a specific thing you wrote that I don't think was very logical. I agree that it has a lot to do with being sick of the establishment, but the only thing that really makes Trump be outside the establishment is that he's new in politics. He still certainly represents the rule of the wealthy, which has caused the US to literally have a wealth distribution similar to the feudal countries in medieval Europe, and has some of the lowest socio-economic mobility of developed countries (despite the talk of the American dream).

People are free to vote however they want, but from my point of view that's hardly a revolution. I don't see how the middle class (or lower) will see any more than the standard level of changes as far as their situation goes.

 

[86'd]

You should give us sn update on this when your back goes out, you get screwed in your worker comp case, and you end up on the dole with an addiction to painkillrrs.

Already happened. Although not to my back and I can't say I got "screwed by workmans comp" because I did not pursue a lawsuit. But was awarded money because I was/considered physically disabled. In a state that pays for pain and suffering, I'd of pretty much been retired before I was even legal to drink. And the workman comp claim agents frequently told me how I was such a joy to work with and actually deserves everything coming my way unlike a lot

I spent two weeks in the hospital, four months physical therapy, (although most I did that on my own cause working out is what I do) and returned to work before I was supposed too. Was recommended by doctors to no longer work outside, and definitely no exposure to the sun. Yet I did and and still do. Was hooked on all drugs from a teen till 5 years ago, although in the prescription world for the injury was legally prescribed to methadone, percecet, and hydrocodone for my injurys and did get hooked.

And too the electrician yes I do consider your work to be a job. Even if you've landed in a good

 

[Higus]

Must be the reason why he got like 50% of the vote in Massachusetts, people are so uneducated there.

Not that surprising when you look at the numbers. Of primary voters, 2:1 voted for democrats. Of the ~600K that voted in the GOP primary, Trump took the lead, but Kasich and Rubio came in 2nd and 3rd, indicating a strong moderate (and according to the OP, educated) presence. Cruz was a distant 4th, probably because the evangelical population is insignificant. So as a total, he only gets maybe 16% of primary voters in MA.

FWIW, there are plenty of dumb people in MA. There just happens to be a lot of very smart people, too.

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

Not that surprising when you look at the numbers. Of primary voters, 2:1 voted for democrats. Of the ~600K that voted in the GOP primary, Trump took the lead, but Kasich and Rubio came in 2nd and 3rd, indicating a strong moderate (and according to the OP, educated) presence. Cruz was a distant 4th, probably because the evangelical population is insignificant. So as a total, he only gets maybe 16% of primary voters in MA.

FWIW, there are plenty of dumb people in MA. There just happens to be a lot of very smart people, too.

Great post, saved me the trouble.

 

[kpt018]

I view it as frustration and fear on his part. He's gonna self implode once Trump wins the election and all that hope and trust he puts on his prediction charts and graphs were all for nothing

I think he, like many of us, would self implode if Trump wins not because we were wrong but because he will be a horrible, horrible president and has a chance to do tons of damage that may have long effects.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think he, like many of us, would self implode if Trump wins not because we were wrong but because he will be a horrible, horrible president and has a chance to do tons of damage that may have long effects.

That is true, but on the other hand, how is he any worse than Rubio or Cruz? And they would have a Republican Congress so all of the idiotic ideas they've been talking about could actually get implemented. Rubio said that we have a debt crisis looming (stupid, but OK), but he's also proposing the complete elimination of capital gains taxes and other cuts mostly to the wealthy that would reduce revenue by $800B a year, plus he wants to increase military spending and protect entitlements for people 55 and older. And he wants a balanced budget amendment! If he eliminated the military completely, he still wouldn't even come close to paying for his tax cut, much less balancing the budget. The thing that Trump has said that seemed to offend him the most is that he wouldn't let people die in the streets because they couldn't afford healthcare. And that guy could actually win. The GOP has literally gone insane.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

That is true, but on the other hand, how is he any worse than Rubio or Cruz? And they would have a Republican Congress so all of the idiotic ideas they've been talking about could actually get implemented. Rubio said that we have a debt crisis looming (stupid, but OK), but he's also proposing the complete elimination of capital gains taxes and other cuts mostly to the wealthy that would reduce revenue by $800B a year, plus he wants to increase military spending and protect entitlements for people 55 and older. And he wants a balanced budget amendment! If he eliminated the military completely, he still wouldn't even come close to paying for his tax cut, much less balancing the budget. The thing that Trump has said that seemed to offend him the most is that he wouldn't let people die in the streets because they couldn't afford healthcare. And that guy could actually win. The GOP has literally gone insane.

This. Kasich too. As governor he supported the standard pro-rich/anti-middle class policies: Cut income tax, eliminate estate tax, raise sales tax, and (unsuccessfully) take collective bargaining rights away from public sector workers.

 

[Jack V Savage]

This. Kasich too. As governor he supported the standard pro-rich/anti-middle class policies: Cut capital gains tax, cut income tax, raise sales tax, and (unsuccessfully) take collective bargaining rights away from public sector workers.

And on the campaign trail, he's also been pushing absurd fantasies (like that balancing budgets will lead to growth and that he can balance budgets by massively cutting taxes on the rich) and outright lies, like that he had something to do with balanced budgets in the 1990s.

With Fox, the Washington Times, talk radio, etc., the right has created its own alternative reality zone, and there is no one who is willing to call out bullshit who will be trusted by the base. Then the Obama years made it much worse. Obama is a pretty non-ideological technocrat who had the idea that there was a lot of good policy that everyone could agree on so let's try to move past partisanship and do those things. So then they were forced to pretend that every moderate idea he had posted an existential threat to the country and later that every policy success was actually a failure. They've become completely untethered to reality.

And the professional pundits getting up in arms about Trump's fantastical claims have no standing if they were defending the equally fantastical claims of Romney or Bush. If you're telling people who trust you that anyone who criticizes Republican claims can't be believed no matter what their credentials or arguments are, you can't then say, "but trust us when we say that this Republican's claims are crazy." The only difference is that Trump's lies are more the lies that the base wants to hear than the lies the donors want to hear.

 

[Victor Maitland]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/super-tuesday-2016-gop-republican-live-updates/


That's really what this election is about.

The angriest, most xenophobic, least intelligent, least informed, least educated voters are hijacking a plurality and steering Hillary Clinton towards the White House. It's ironic given the invective they spew at the base that drove Obama to the White House (perhaps most salient is that Obama's appeal trended opposite of this among voters-- including among whites):

If there was a prison vote , Democrats would win in a landslide .
Everyone knows who the least educated and most violent people in America are.

 

[UL]

Watching Romney going on about Trump.. he's not holding backl.

 

[Tekk]

Also, it seems you can see into the future, and you know the wall won't be built. If so, what are this week's Powerball numbers

He only wants Muslims to carry special IDs and be in a special database. My bad

We both know that won't actually happen; what will likely happen is that we'll watch Muslims even more closely, and for good reason.

So I guess you can also see into the future.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I disagree. What we are witnessing is a modern day revolution. This is about people who have felt powerless and ignored for so long trying to take power back. It's mostly the middle class who are not poor enough for the democrats to pander to, and nowhere near rich enough for republicans to pander to. This is more about voting against the establishment, than voting for trump.

This is actually a good point.

But the truth is, things like universal health care, free college, higher minimum wages and all the other things that Bernie proposes would benefit these working class and lower-middle class whites infinitely more than the standard conservative proposals of Trump.

But supporting Bernie and Democrats comes with a package. And that package is minorities, immigrants, women, the secular, gays. And the GOP has vilified these groups to the point where they'd rather get behind idiocy like "deport the Mexicans! Ban the Muslims!" over being lumped with these undesirables.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Yeah, I mean why would laborers/construction workers like a guy who has made a career of massive building projects that employ said workers?

Yeah, janitorial workers should love Goldman Sachs bankers, after all, who employs them to clean out their offices and bathrooms?? Think about it, libs!!

Kelly Bundy level. My god...

 

[Jack V Savage]

This is actually a good point.

But the truth is, things like universal health care, free college, higher minimum wages and all the other things that Bernie proposes would benefit these working class and lower-middle class whites infinitely more than the standard conservative proposals of Trump.

But supporting Bernie and Democrats comes with a package. And that package is minorities, immigrants, women, the secular, gays. And the GOP has vilified these groups to the point where they'd rather get behind idiocy like "deport the Mexicans! Ban the Muslims!" over being lumped with these undesirables.

I think this is a big mistake that the left makes. Yes, white working-class Southerners would slash their own faces with razors if they thought it would hurt black people more, but that is what they would consider helping them. You gotta understand what they want on their own terms. Or to put it another way, racism has to be fixed before you can expect to get a lot of these people on board with a leftist platform. Doesn't mean you can't work to get what you're looking for without them.

 

[kpt018]

That is true, but on the other hand, how is he any worse than Rubio or Cruz? And they would have a Republican Congress so all of the idiotic ideas they've been talking about could actually get implemented. Rubio said that we have a debt crisis looming (stupid, but OK), but he's also proposing the complete elimination of capital gains taxes and other cuts mostly to the wealthy that would reduce revenue by $800B a year, plus he wants to increase military spending and protect entitlements for people 55 and older. And he wants a balanced budget amendment! If he eliminated the military completely, he still wouldn't even come close to paying for his tax cut, much less balancing the budget. The thing that Trump has said that seemed to offend him the most is that he wouldn't let people die in the streets because they couldn't afford healthcare. And that guy could actually win. The GOP has literally gone insane.

No, please don't get me wrong. I think Rubio and Cruz can do just as much damage if not more. I think we are in serious trouble if Hillary loses. And I agree with everything you said here.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I think this is a big mistake that the left makes. Yes, white working-class Southerners would slash their own faces with razors if they thought it would hurt black people more, but that is what they would consider helping them. You gotta understand what they want on their own terms. Or to put it another way, racism has to be fixed before you can expect to get a lot of these people on board with a leftist platform. Doesn't mean you can't work to get what you're looking for without them.

Agreed. Many on the left think this is one of its biggest failures: the inability to capture disaffected, poor whites.

While I generally agree with this sentiment, it should also be noted that this is a giant mountain to climb. I mean, have poor whites ever allied with minorities outside of big cities? I remember Howard Zinn mentioning a few isolated instances here and there in his People's History but nothing big or long-lasting. Unfortunately, it seems like xenophobia and racism are so deep-seated in white rural culture that they were happy to start voting against their class interests in the 70s and 80s when minorities started coming on board.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

Trump isnt the hero America needs but the hero she deserves. GL with that lol

 

[kahiljabroni]

This is actually a good point.

But the truth is, things like universal health care, free college, higher minimum wages and all the other things that Bernie proposes would benefit these working class and lower-middle class whites infinitely more than the standard conservative proposals of Trump.

But supporting Bernie and Democrats comes with a package. And that package is minorities, immigrants, women, the secular, gays. And the GOP has vilified these groups to the point where they'd rather get behind idiocy like "deport the Mexicans! Ban the Muslims!" over being lumped with these undesirables.

Id say free healthcare, college, and raising the minimum wage would be more aimed at the lower middle class and the working poor than the middle class.
But to your point..those things would be great if we weren't 20 trillion in debt. I mean free healthcare isn't really free it would just be another enormous government expenditure...and free college doesn't address the lack of good paying jobs available for graduates. Im for raising the minimum wage but 15hr is not a middle class income...and minimum wage should be a stepping stone to a true middle class career.

 

[MeatheadMike]

Or maybe people are sick and tired of career politicians and want real true change. The fact that Trump is despised by politicians and the media are only helping his cause.
Regular people can't relate to politicians anymore. The fact that our current president has never had a job goes to show how out of touch politicians are with the middle class.

People can't relate to career politicians who are in the pocket of big business... so instead they should vote for a billionaire who represents big business directly? Cut out the middle man I suppose.

 

[kpt018]

People can't relate to career politicians who are in the pocket of big business... so instead they should vote for a billionaire who represents big business directly? Cut out the middle man I suppose.

And I'll add vote for the anti-establishment guy who holds many establishment positions (regressive taxes for example).