Social The daily "AOC says something stupid on Twitter" thread.

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Rygu, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Politically they align on most things. Both want Medicare for all, both want money out of politics, want to raise the marginal tax rate for the rich, both want tuition free college, both want a new green deal, both want to raise the minimum wage, both opposed Paygo, and so on.

    I like Sanders much more because he's been there and done that. He was the one who started all this. Because of him, minimum wage has been raised in several states, medicare for all is now on the table and student debt is part of the public conversation. He's a great man.

    AOC panders more to the minorities, and I don't care a single bit about identity politics. Neither from the right nor the left. She's also very green and has said some stupid shit. With that, looking at policies and what she's voting for, I respect a lot of the work she's doing. She can reach out to people that Sanders can't, and she was responsible for getting the discussion about marginal tax rates out there. Her 70% was initially scoffed at, but it has been at that level for decades before. There's nothing radical about it.

    This clip is pretty much spot on in that regard:


    As for why people are going crazy? In part, she says some dumb things sometimes, and she's also actively trolling the republicans on social media. She doesn't back down and she's learning pretty fast. Also, she's a hispanic women and she's young, which conservatives can't stand. Goes back to the identity politics thing.

    Bottom line, I don't give a shit about all that other stuff, I care about issues and voting records. I agree with her politics most of the time, as well as Sanders. Neither of them take PAC money and they are running for the people and middle class. Away with the neoliberal and corrupt corporate pupputs on either side.
     
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  2. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hi again Sano,

    that's pretty much how i see it.

    they seem really similar from a policy perspective.

    one of them is young, brown, and has a name that sounds un-american (to some) and one of them is a white senior citizen.
    that's just optics, though. in a legislative sense, they're the same person.

    yet Mr. Sanders received chest thumping, prodigious support from the leftwing of the War Room and Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, not-so-much.

    right wingers seem to actually despise Ms. Ocasio-Cortez more than Mr. Sanders, even though its Mr. Sanders who is probably going to run for POTUS and Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is just a junior member of the House.

    its weird.

    - IGIT
     
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  3. uppercutbus

    uppercutbus Red Belt

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    Nice try. The article didn't say she "Supports Putin" etc. For example "supporting Assad" means backing his war effort. That's not what the article is saying. It's making a point about her attacks on capitalism the virtues of socialism not reflected in reality, the hypocrisy of leftist billionaires. It's not a scientific or court of law document. If we want to be literal it is wrong, but I'm sure you understand the colloquial language used.

    For example she has never mentioned Kim Jong for instance as far as I know, or called him a favorite, but the article explains what the message it's trying to convey quite clearly forestalls a literal interpretation - which is what your arguing. The article goes through a list of people who aren't capitalists, something she rails on.

    The reason the article lists them is because she attacked wealth, and those people are very wealthy.

    You're arguing with yourself friend. It's perfectly acceptable to call Bernie a socialist. Politifact is leftists too and agrees with this. It doesn't seem to care to split hairs over it in it's conclusion.

    I don't see the mystery. Every one of Cortez's threads ridiculing her quote what she's being ridiculed/criticized on.
     
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  4. ShadowRun

    ShadowRun error Platinum Member

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    Hahaha she’s a clown
     
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  5. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hi uppercutbus again,

    but Ms. Ocasio Cortez and Mr. Sanders have essentially identical positions, from a policy perspective, lol.

    and he's the one who is going to run from President (assuming he announces), not her. he's the one with the legislative juice, not her.

    maybe my problem is that i don't use Twitter, idk.

    i find the focus on Ms. Ocasio Cortez sort of peculiar. i'd figure that Mr. Sanders is the real enemy and the real threat to someone uncomfortable with Democratic Socialism - not her.

    - IGIT
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  6. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    I don't know exactly what you nor what the article is arguing. I'm not trying to trap you in anything. You initiated with saying that they were her "favorite commies" and the articles is a headline saying "her favorite socialists". I'm sure you can see the issue with that statement here and the mistakes the article makes.

    First is that you, and the article, are conflating various ideologies and getting them wrong. Putin is not a socialist, nor is Assad. Second is trying to tie AOC in with various brutal dictators. She is a progressive, same with Sanders, which is the exact opposite of someone like Putin. Can you explain to me how they are her favourite "socialists"? She has never shown any favor, nor praise, for them.

    It's not splitting hairs. If you are using the term socialist as a Democratic Socialist then fine. That has nothing to do with Russia, Syria, China, South Africa and North Korea though. You might as well then claim that the Danish prime ministers is a socialist in line with Kim Jung Un. For us to not talk past each other it would help if you could tell me what you believe a socialist is.
     
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  7. uppercutbus

    uppercutbus Red Belt

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    But that's not really why people make threads on her, it's her outlandish and entertaining quotes.

    I think Bernie as a threat is overstated. Look how old he is and he has already failed once already, I think most people can safely dismiss him as a candidate in fact it could be good for the opposition for him to run again. His socialist ideas can be passed on though. Cortez is with establishment dems and wants to abolish ICE, not sure if Bernie is on the same page on things like that.

    She attacked capitalism and wealth accumulated via capitalism are you not seeing the point of the article? Here is the conclusion quote again:

     
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  8. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hey there uppercutbus, last post for now, i gotta head to work,

    Mr. Sanders has been saying pretty much the same thing as Ms. Ocasio-Cortez though, and for much longer.

    i agree that the threat Mr. Sanders poses is overstated, but not because of his age - its because his dogma is repulsive to most centrists on either side of the aisle.

    you're not sure?

    this will help clarify, then;

    In 2002 I voted against the creation of DHS and the establishment of ICE. That was the right vote. Now, it is time to do what Americans overwhelmingly want: abolish the cruel, dysfunctional immigration system we have today and pass comprehensive immigration reform.
    - Bernie Sanders July 3rd, 2018.

    i gotta go, good talking with you!

    - IGIT
     
  9. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    I can see that the article says that somehow because Cortez is a democratic socialist, then she backs the ideology and economy of Russia, China, North Korea, South Africa and so on, but I as we've talked about they did not make that connection. Those countries have vastly different ideologies and economies in the first place, which we talked a little about before. If you think about it, as someone who believes in working class rights, a strong democracy and a market economy, can you really say that her ideology and economic policies are the same as Kim-Jung Un?
     
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  10. uppercutbus

    uppercutbus Red Belt

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    You're asking why people are giving her attention when she's just Young Bernie? If you ask me her quotes are entertaining and without much substance on implementation ("feelz > realz", "you just pay for it" etc.), if you ask another person they'll say she's "young and enthusiastic" and something about "media loves that" etc.

    If his ideas are repulsive to both sides, wouldn't that also apply to AOC? They've both been saying "the same things". ;)

    The people listed "most of them are what you’d call socialists, communists, and Marxists — supposedly the antithesis of capitalist." You're making it more complicated than it needs to be. The message of the article isn't hard decipher.
     
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  11. Brodels

    Brodels Low IQ Trump & Kavanaugh Supporter

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    Now she wants to get rid of airplanes and renovate buildings across the country.

    Hey what is up with the story about her being fired from Hot Dog On A Stick in 2008? I don't care that Snopes says it isn't true.
     
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  12. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Erroneously piling a group of dictators and authoritarians together and then erroneously trying to lump a progressive together with them as a way to smear that person with no connection between the two parties. Yes, the message is quite clear. When you think about it, does the fact that I want accurate information mean that I'm overthinking it? When you go through what we've talked about, is there any part of you that might raise some questions about the legitimacy of that article, and wonder if it is in fact providing feelz over realz?
     
  13. uppercutbus

    uppercutbus Red Belt

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    So are they capitalist or not? That's the crux of the point you're making with the article. She directly attacks capitalism and the wealth attained from it. The article points out those who aren't capitalist yet very rich with background commentary on the failures of socialism.
     
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  14. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    So because she has criticisms of capitalism and wealth inequality, that must mean that she supports North Korea and Russia? Do you see how one doesn't follow the other? I have plenty of criticisms against aspects of capitalism, does that mean that I support Putin? I can tell you I don't. I also believe that capitalism, if regulated and kept free from corruptive elements, is a good thing.

    To answer your questions, most of them have capitalism in various forms yes, the ones that have market economies. However the state in many cases have most of the power. In Russia about 50% of the corporations are state owned, which would make it about 50/50. Russia is an oligarchy though. A few select families control the majority of the wealth and power. It's not unlike how the wealthiest people in the US lobby the state to gain control over the legislation and market, however in Russia they just skip the pretend part and use violence.
     
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  15. uppercutbus

    uppercutbus Red Belt

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    she doesn't doesn't support regimes, she supports socialism though. The article is quite clear on the message it's making.

    Regular Poindexter over here.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    But she supports Democratic Socialism and the Scandinavian model, just like Sanders. She said this many times, here in her 60 minutes interview:

    "In an interview with Anderson Cooper, the newly sworn-in House Rep laughed when asked if what she has in mind for the US mirrors the oppressive socialist regimes found in the former Soviet Union, Cuba or Venezuela.

    'Of course not. What we have in mind and what my policies most closely re-resemble are what we see in the UK, in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden,' Ocasio-Cortez said."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-wants-socialist-policies-modeled-Sweden.html

    Looking through her policies and voting record, her economic and philosophical ideology (phrase from the article) is in line with Norhern and Western Europe, not Russia, North Korea and Syria. Are you beginning to see where the mistakes are in the article? Both with lumping various ideologies together into one pool, and also faulty attributing those ideologies to AOC?
     
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  17. uppercutbus

    uppercutbus Red Belt

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    I don't have a problem calling Sweden and Finland socialist colloquially, but technically they aren't and also have some of the highest taxes in the world.
    https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

    UK is only called socialist from a pure capitalist perspective.

    "Closely resembles" is a convenient get-out clause. She is quite anti-capitalism, even saying "capitalism won't last forever" when all European countries have mixed, market-based economies that are dominated by private capital. America has to replicate Nordic countries with some of the highest taxes in the world? No, if we are looking to Europe for inspiration also look at France, which is fed up with taxes.
     
  18. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hi uppercutbus,

    i am a little perplexed why she's getting so much attention, sure. she's just a junior member of congress who has adopted the Sanders platform.

    i figure its because she's really young and a woman and a minority (i'm not adding that to point the finger of racism, i just figure that it makes her different, visually, so it helps her stand out).

    yep, absolutely. Mr. Sanders' platform, which it seems Ms. Ocasio-Cortez has adopted, is radioactive to centrists in congress.

    - IGIT
     
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  19. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hello Brodels, nice to meet you,

    that's because she sees mankind driving the planet off the edge of a cliff - and to be honest, her assessment isn't out of line with the scientific consensus - so she's ringing the alarm bell (because she's young enough that she'll live to see this occur).

    i can't blame her, but i'm with most Americans on this issue.

    i believe that mankind is degrading the environment and we have pretty much reached the point of no return...but i also don't care, since there are dinner reservations to made, vacations to take, pot to be smoked, and good times to be had.

    it's going to be someone else's problem and i wish them all the best luck in the world in dealing with it...but i don't want my own life to be too inconvenienced in the meantime.

    - IGIT
     
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  20. PHATV

    PHATV WHITEBELT Platinum Member

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