The bullying of the Regressives

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

You have a weird obsession with making everything about "conservatives".

Because for the most part their party is guided by idiots. And now your side is trying to portray the left like how they're viewed.

 

[ehtheist]

Because for the most part their party is guided by idiots. And now your side is trying to portray the left like how they're viewed.

Kong, which Republican candidate do you see in this figure?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Kong, which Republican candidate do you see in this figure?

Its funny that very small portions of the left are acting like how the republicans have acted for decades.

Now the flood gates have opened and the right wingers can't handle it for even a second.

 

[Shoemaker]

Because for the most part their party is guided by idiots. And now your side is trying to portray the left like how they're viewed.

My side? lol you hack. You don't even know my politics. I agree with your assessment; your obsessive because it's irrelevant to this particular conversation.

 

[ehtheist]

Its funny that very small portions of the left are acting like how the republicans have acted for decades.

Now the flood gates have opened and the right wingers can't handle it for even a second.

Ok. Now what GOP member do you see selling the peons out to their corporate overlords here?

 

[Fawlty]

It's big amongst the Breitbart, Gamergate, "anti-PC" identity politics types and the anti-muslim industry (Geller, Gabriel, Spencer etc). Mostly used a lot more broadly (to the point of being a meaningless pejorative) than the original sense of people defending sexism and bigoted behaviour by Muslims.

On the left it's mostly been taken up by atheist anti-religious bigots like Maher, Harris etc.

I hadn't noticed you calling Sam Harris a bigot. I strongly disagree with that. I think his rationalization for his criticism of Muslims in particular is logical and defensible. I see him encouraging moderate behavior and criticizing radical behavior. I am not impressed by the intellectual honesty of his detractors in the media. Maher I've never observed being a bigot but I haven't followed his show enough to say.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I guess it's a half of the point I don't consider that relevant.

I don't see how that can be.

I'm not arguing for or against the person - I'm arguing for or against the position they're adopting. If Donald Trump were to have some really sound idea that came out of his general racist, populist ramblings, I would be quite happy to say "Well, that's a damned good idea - old Trump got it right this time."

Sure, sure. I think there's a disconnect somewhere here. It's not some kind of ad hominem fallacy.

I might have misunderstood the issue... Is the problem that the "regressive left" is unwittingly supporting the right, or that dumbassed college kids - like the ones we talked about yesterday - want Plato effectively censored because he says things they don't like? IE - "bullying" the "wrong" viewpoints. I don't really see that as an issue related tied to the right... I might have misunderstood the whole contention here.

The concept of a "regressive left" does refer to the left unwittingly supporting right-wing ideals (like differing legal status for women or ethnic nationalism). Apparently you also have a lot of mouth-breathers who simply use the term to refer to the actual left in a kind of empty insult.

It is the left's insane, aggressive and divisive identity politics that are driving people people to support Donald Trump. Many people (especially working class white males) are tired of being shamed, guilted and condemned by regressive leftists. The only person who is not pissing on them at the moment is Donald Trump. People will only tolerate being shit on for so long before they lash out. Supporting Trump is their way of lashing out against a society that is entirely against them.

So white nationalism is just a reaction to campus radicals "shaming" people? I think maybe you should read a little about U.S. history.

 

[stellarborg]

There were so many threads about all this college campus stuff when it happened. It was retarded, most sane people agreed, hell I think even Obama said these kids were wack.

pretty much this

these right wing agitators are really good at taking isolated instances like this and making it seem like the world is against them, playing the victim card

 

[Ruprecht]

Calm down Mr Affleck.

Calling Maher and Harris bigots just exposes you as being a total moron. They have said and done nothing bigoted at all, and you asshats can never prove they said anything racist or bigoted, proving your delusions.

In an attempt to hide behind your lies - rather than admit any mistake or unfair judgement - idiots such as yourself quote-mine and take phrases they did say completely out of context to make it appear that they're saying something that they're not.

It's this high level of dishonesty that is your undoing. Rational people see your tactics for what they are even when your ego blinds you. Pitiful.

Maher in particular has always been a religious bigot. The fact that you can't see the atheist bigotry in movies like "religulous" and in his "jokes", just goes to show that you're an atheist bigot. Not surprising really, since you constantly spew ignorant opinions on religions you clearly know noting about. That's par for the course.

 

[Ruprecht]

I hadn't noticed you calling Sam Harris a bigot. I strongly disagree with that. I think his rationalization for his criticism of Muslims in particular is logical and defensible. I see him encouraging moderate behavior and criticizing radical behavior. I am not impressed by the intellectual honesty of his detractors in the media. Maher I've never observed being a bigot but I haven't followed his show enough to say.

Harris isn't a racist, and doesn't make the bigoted "jokes" that Maher does, but he still absolutely promotes over generalised and flat out inaccurate criticisms of Islam under the guise of "rational atheism". ...and as for his "liberal idealism", he's the one that openly stated that fascist fearmongers have it right about Islam and that politically he'd side with Ben Carson (!) over Chomsky.

 

[Fawlty]

Harris isn't a racist, and doesn't make the bigoted "jokes" that Maher does, but he still absolutely promotes over generalised and flat out inaccurate criticisms of Islam under the guise of "rational atheism". ...and as for his "liberal idealism", he's the one that openly stated that fascist fearmongers have it right about Islam and that politically he'd side with Ben Carson (!) over Chomsky.

He reached too far to criticize the left with that Carson quip, and in his defense he was fresh off a very frustrating exchange with Chomsky, where Chomsky Chomsky'd him. Petty and a shame he said that, it's a fair point. This is also a guy who is co-authoring with moderate Muslims and seeking a dialogue that the left refuses to have. I have to praise him for it even if he gets a bruised ego and lashes out now and then. His positions on Islam have been widely misrepresented and he has taken great pains to clarify them. (Things like his "support" for torture and a nuclear first strike, which were taken completely out of context)

I would like to see him center himself this year and get back to the less easily-shaken Sam Harris that won me over years ago. The man is not a bigot though.

 

[ocfightfan]

They are narcissistic children and baby totalitarians taking advantage of our sympathy for victims. They know that guilt is a powerful weapon in American public discourse because of the residual Christian decency and love of freedom that still exists in our culture. They would use that to gain power, and then turn us into the victim. I guarantee you that when they are running things they won't tolerate us in the way that we tolerate them.

Not long ago someone quoted Muad'dib from Dune as summing up the Progressive approach:
"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles."

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Maher in particular has always been a religious bigot. The fact that you can't see the atheist bigotry in movies like "religulous" and in his "jokes", just goes to show that you're an atheist bigot. Not surprising really, since you constantly spew ignorant opinions on religions you clearly know noting about. That's par for the course.

If we used bigot in the way you are, then we could say that you're bigoted against white supremacists. You're bigoted against Nazi's. And so on.

Religion isn't a race. Religion is a set of ideas. It's perfectly okay to be bigoted against bad ideas, which is why we don't really consider being intolerant to white supremacy as a bad thing.

If you're applying the use of the word bigoted to being intolerant of bad ideas, then it's a useless term since we are all bigoted against bad ideas, and we should be.

Maher criticises religion, yes. Because religion is a bad idea. Faith is a bad idea.

This is not like criticising someone based upon something that they cannot control - such as race. You might choose to believe that the world is flat, and I might choose to be intolerant of your stupid view, and I'd have a good reason for it.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Harris isn't a racist, and doesn't make the bigoted "jokes" that Maher does, but he still absolutely promotes over generalised and flat out inaccurate criticisms of Islam under the guise of "rational atheism". ...and as for his "liberal idealism", he's the one that openly stated that fascist fearmongers have it right about Islam and that politically he'd side with Ben Carson (!) over Chomsky.

I've yet to see Sam Harris incorrectly criticize Islam. Perhaps you could demonstrate where he did without quote mining.

 

[Jack V Savage]

If we used bigot in the way you are, then we could say that you're bigoted against white supremacists. You're bigoted against Nazi's. And so on.

Religion isn't a race. Religion is a set of ideas. It's perfectly okay to be bigoted against bad ideas, which is why we don't really consider being intolerant to white supremacy being bigoted.

If you're applying the use of the word bigoted to being intoleranthe of bad ideas, then it's a useless term since we are all bigoted against bad ideas, and we should be.

Maher criticises religion, yes. Because religion is a bad idea. Faith is a bad idea.

This is not like criticising someone based upon something that they cannot control - such as race. You might choose to believe that the world is flat, and I might choose to be intolerant of your stupid view, and I'd have a good reason for it.

This is kind of what you were (incorrectly) accusing me of in the other thread. You're so damned sure that you're right that you think it justifies being a total dickhole to everyone. No. There are billions of believers in the world, and most people are just trying to get through their days and do a little good in the world. You (and I) might think they're misguided, but that doesn't excuse rudeness.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

This is kind of what you were (incorrectly) accusing me of in the other thread. You're so damned sure that you're right that you think it justifies being a total dickhole to everyone. No. There are billions of believers in the world, and most people are just trying to get through their days and do a little good in the world. You (and I) might think they're misguided, but that doesn't excuse rudeness.

Wrong again, Jack.

First off, you're creating a straw man. I never said anything about being a dickhole. Is acknowledging that belief in the extraordinary absent any evidence is generally a bad idea being a dickhole?

Secondly, being a dickhole is subjective, it is not an objective truth. A white supremacist might think you're being a dickhole for calling him an asshole. Who the fuck cares?

 

[Ruprecht]

He reached too far to criticize the left with that Carson quip, and in his defense he was fresh off a very frustrating exchange with Chomsky, where Chomsky Chomsky'd him. Petty and a shame he said that, it's a fair point. This is also a guy who is co-authoring with moderate Muslims and seeking a dialogue that the left refuses to have. I have to praise him for it even if he gets a bruised ego and lashes out now and then. His positions on Islam have been widely misrepresented and he has taken great pains to clarify them. (Things like his "support" for torture and a nuclear first strike, which were taken completely out of context)

I would like to see him center himself this year and get back to the less easily-shaken Sam Harris that won me over years ago. The man is not a bigot though.

He's done much the same thing again and again, whether it's calling for the profiling of muslims, through to, "In our dealings with the Muslim world, we must acknowledge that Muslims have not found anything of substance to say against the actions of the September 11 hijackers, apart from the ubiquitous canard that they were really Jews." ( The End of Faith, p. 134)
He's defended the use of torture.
He's not a bigot on the level of Spencer, Litman/Ye'Or, Geller or Gabriel, but his generalisations still amount to bigotry.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

He's done much the same thing again and again, whether it's calling for the profiling of muslims, through to, "In our dealings with the Muslim world, we must acknowledge that Muslims have not found anything of substance to say against the actions of the September 11 hijackers, apart from the ubiquitous canard that they were really Jews." ( The End of Faith, p. 134)
He's not a bigot on the level of Spencer, Litman/Ye'Or, Geller or Gabriel, but his generalisations still amount to bigotry.

Try again.

 

[Ruprecht]

If we used bigot in the way you are, then we could say that you're bigoted against white supremacists. You're bigoted against Nazi's. And so on.

Religion isn't a race. Religion is a set of ideas. It's perfectly okay to be bigoted against bad ideas, which is why we don't really consider being intolerant to white supremacy as a bad thing.

If you're applying the use of the word bigoted to being intolerant of bad ideas, then it's a useless term since we are all bigoted against bad ideas, and we should be.

Maher criticises religion, yes. Because religion is a bad idea. Faith is a bad idea.

This is not like criticising someone based upon something that they cannot control - such as race. You might choose to believe that the world is flat, and I might choose to be intolerant of your stupid view, and I'd have a good reason for it.

Bigotry isn't just another word for racism. I used the term accurately. Bigotry towards people that hold religious beliefs is still bigotry. On the other hand we have you equating religion with Nazism and White supremacy... a good example of your atheist bigotry.

 

[Ruprecht]

Try again.

I didn't say "racially". His call for profiling was just as ignorant. Regressive, in the literal sense.