The American Gun Rights Thread Vol. 3

[jlagman]

Some idiot bumped the thread so let's dance the dance. The argument was lost then, he bumped it...it still has changed.

LOL, lost the argument then, you still have two left feet bro, is that all you got? Just so you're aware, here is an example of how much grasping you've had to do.

Pistol grips are better, see:

 

[Greoric]

It doesn't have anything to do with me. The argument was does the design of a weapon allow it to be easier to use during certain combat situations?

All that these dipshits can come back with is "but you can do all these things with the other more clumsy design..."

And we keep going around and around!

How do you define someone forcefully breaking into your house that's also armed? The homeowner defending their life should have to settle for a weapon that's more clumsy and ineffective in your opinion?

Keep in mind, we keep going around in circles with this because you refuse to answer my questions. Let's suppose it makes the weapon more effective at engaging specific targets. Therefore what? You don't give any non arbitrary reason that should make something illegal. All you do is point out that the military uses it. What does that have anything to do with anyone else?

 

[My Spot]

Some idiot bumped the thread so let's dance the dance. The argument was lost then, he bumped it...it still has changed.

At least you took me off ignore. Baby steps.

 

[BVG]

Are we not talking about what is or isn't clumsy. The best shooters in the world use shotguns with stocks over grips. They also use AR's because it is the best overall platform.

The AR/M4 platform overall is best. It is better than anything else. Are you fucking stupid. How many times do people have say this. Low recoil, accessories, low weight, compact, etc. The pistol grip is better for transporting in a low ready position.

However the pistol grip does nothing for pure shooting that would give a rampaging civilian an advantage over a stock. That is the argument. That you somehow think a pistol grip in civilian hands is an unstoppable death machine and that in your opinion(without ever holding one) a stock is some clumsy pos.

Just gtfo idiot.

http://www.rem870.com/2009/09/17/pistol-grip-vs-stock-on-a-tactical-combat-home-defense-shotgun/

1. Manuverability
Pistol grip decreases a shotgun length and also you don’t need to raise your elbow as in traditional shooting stance which is used with stock. It will be much easier for you to maneuver in a house, stairs, around corners etc. with a shotgun which has a pistol grip installed(especially in close quarters). It is easier to move, crouch, run, hold it with one hand etc.

2. Safety Button
Personally for me it is much more easier to find the safety button with a pistol grip. It is much more intuitive.

3. Сonvenience
It is more convenient to hold your shotgun with your hand on a grip for a long time if you have a pistol grip. Your hands will get tired not as fast as with traditional stock. Also it reduces strain of your wrist.

4. Easier Transition
If you have a pistol or rifle with a pistol grip (AR-15 for example) it will be easier for you to use a shotgun with a pistol grip because you are already familiar with it.

5. Reducing a Silhouette
Pistol grip allows you to have your hands close to the body and reduce your silhouette which is important in a gunfight.

 

[BVG]

At least you took me off ignore. Baby steps.

You were never important enough for me to bother with the ignore feature. Don't take that personally lol

 

[jlagman]

http://www.rem870.com/2009/09/17/pistol-grip-vs-stock-on-a-tactical-combat-home-defense-shotgun/

1. Manuverability
Pistol grip decreases a shotgun length and also you don’t need to raise your elbow as in traditional shooting stance which is used with stock. It will be much easier for you to maneuver in a house, stairs, around corners etc. with a shotgun which has a pistol grip installed(especially in close quarters). It is easier to move, crouch, run, hold it with one hand etc.

2. Safety Button
Personally for me it is much more easier to find the safety button with a pistol grip. It is much more intuitive.

3. Сonvenience
It is more convenient to hold your shotgun with your hand on a grip for a long time if you have a pistol grip. Your hands will get tired not as fast as with traditional stock. Also it reduces strain of your wrist.

4. Easier Transition
If you have a pistol or rifle with a pistol grip (AR-15 for example) it will be easier for you to use a shotgun with a pistol grip because you are already familiar with it.

5. Reducing a Silhouette
Pistol grip allows you to have your hands close to the body and reduce your silhouette which is important in a gunfight.

Congratulations, you managed to find and post one blogger's opinion. I had the exact same pistol gripped stock on the same shotgun too.



It sucked; made the gun actually feel awkward and clumsier than the free stock it came with, so I got rid of it.

BRB, gonna throw some spoons to prove my point.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

http://www.rem870.com/2009/09/17/pistol-grip-vs-stock-on-a-tactical-combat-home-defense-shotgun/

1. Manuverability
Pistol grip decreases a shotgun length and also you don’t need to raise your elbow as in traditional shooting stance which is used with stock. It will be much easier for you to maneuver in a house, stairs, around corners etc. with a shotgun which has a pistol grip installed(especially in close quarters). It is easier to move, crouch, run, hold it with one hand etc.

2. Safety Button
Personally for me it is much more easier to find the safety button with a pistol grip. It is much more intuitive.

3. Сonvenience
It is more convenient to hold your shotgun with your hand on a grip for a long time if you have a pistol grip. Your hands will get tired not as fast as with traditional stock. Also it reduces strain of your wrist.

4. Easier Transition
If you have a pistol or rifle with a pistol grip (AR-15 for example) it will be easier for you to use a shotgun with a pistol grip because you are already familiar with it.

5. Reducing a Silhouette
Pistol grip allows you to have your hands close to the body and reduce your silhouette which is important in a gunfight.

Say's some random dude...

1. Is incorrect. Length would be negligible at best either way. Certain brands will be shorter or longer.

I and others have already addressed the elbow angle.

2. Lol

3. The holding I've already said. Low ready, it's the only real advantage.

4. Lol


5. is literally just the elbow angle which again is already been explained. Elbow hard in isn't natural and is uncomfortable with any gun.

Here for example you can see someone tucking vs a natural hold with a pistol grip.

Since you like military pictures so much...

Elbow in and out is just a hold. You adjust for the situation.

If it were better to shoot and maneuver the best shooters in the world would use it in competition.

 

[Was Exiled]

Just on the whole elbow in vs elbow out thing, never owned a gun but just offering my 2 cents from when I talked to the guy running the range I was at before. He said that elbow tucked is preferred particularly for SMGs as they'd be used more inside and you don't want your elbow sticking out when going through doorways etc.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

@jlagman

I'm pretty sure this proves my point.

 

[jlagman]

Just on the whole elbow in vs elbow out thing, never owned a gun but just offering my 2 cents from when I talked to the guy running the range I was at before. He said that elbow tucked is preferred particularly for SMGs as they'd be used more inside and you don't want your elbow sticking out when going through doorways etc.

And on a submachine gun, chambered for pistol ammo or a tactical carbine chambered in intermediate rifle rounds like 5.56 NATO or 7.62x39mm, he'd be right. With those guns, there is no advantage to chicken winging the grip because you don't have to create the pocket between your shoulder and chest to deal with heavy recoil. In a big bore or belted magnum hunting rifle, not chicken winging sucks and you're liable to injure yourself or have the gun jump off your shoulder while firing. Like @RerouteToRemain said, how you grip the gun is situational.

 

[Prutfis]

Needing to carry a gun makes you a pussy ass coward. And most of you need it, itt
seems.

Must be hard being such a pussy that you feel the need to carry.

 

[Was Exiled]

Needing to carry a gun makes you a pussy ass coward. And most of you need it, itt
seems.

Must be hard being such a pussy that you feel the need to carry.

I'm sure in a situation where your home is being invaded and you and your family are powerless the guy who chose not to have the gun is the pussy.

 

[BVG]

Say's some random dude...

1. Is incorrect. Length would be negligible at best either way. Certain brands will be shorter or longer.

I and others have already addressed the elbow angle.

2. Lol

3. The holding I've already said. Low ready, it's the only real advantage.

4. Lol


5. is literally just the elbow angle which again is already been explained. Elbow hard in isn't natural and is uncomfortable with any gun.

Here for example you can see someone tucking vs a natural hold with a pistol grip.

Since you like military pictures so much...

Elbow in and out is just a hold. You adjust for the situation.

If it were better to shoot and maneuver the best shooters in the world would use it in competition.

In the fucking picture you just posted the wrist is bent unnaturally.

Since you've barked in this thread, I've visited a few gun affectionate threads that talked about the differences between stick and pistol, and it's funny how alike they sound to what I've been saying. Funny how that works when you remove an agenda from the equation.

Sorry fella. Not convinced. The us military isn't convinced.

Keep trying, it's cute.

 

[BVG]

I'm sure in a situation where your home is being invaded and you and your family are powerless the guy who chose not to have the gun is the pussy.

There's that paranoia I was talking about earlier

 

[jlagman]

As a previous owner of a Mesa Tactical Urbino stock on my Remington 870, I'll use firsthand experience (and not a single blog post, pictures of soldiers holding pistol gripped rifles, the $700 billion argument or videos of dudes throwing silverware) to explain why it sucked.

1. It was heavy: when you want to make an argument about awkwardness of clumsiness, weight actually makes more of a difference than how some dude, who has never even touched a gun, imagines how a field stock should be held. Unnecessary bulk and weight negatively effect a gun's handling characteristics. Basic physics fella, it's a thing, look it up.

2. Controls and accessibility: while it's true what rem870.com said about the safety being easier to switch off, the same effect is achieved with a $5 big button safety instead of dropping $150 on a pistol gripped stock. What he didn't mention is how the safety is a pain in the ass to switch back on. The Remington 870 shotgun has a crossbolt safety, located forward of the trigger, therefore you still have to relinquish firing grip to put it back onto safe. Same goes for the action lock, which is even more forward of the safety. It's almost like 870 shotguns weren't designed for pistol grips.

3. Reloading: I like to rest the butt of my stock on my hip, point the barrel in the air, roll the receiver so the ejection port faces outside, so I can see the loading gate at the bottom and feed it with my support hand. With a normal field stock, I don't have to reposition my firing hand, with a pistol gripped stock, I do. Sounds awkward and clumsy to me.

4. Recoil: here's what rem870.com didn't mention, guess where a pistol grip places the wrist and web of the firing hand? In the direct path of recoil. So instead of directing all of the recoil into larger muscle groups like the shoulder and chest, some recoil now "bleeds" into more sensitive areas like the wrist and web of the hand. Virtually anyone who has fired a pistol gripped shotgun with full power, 12 gauge, 2.75", 00 Buck defensive loads can relate. Again, sounds more awkward to me.

 

[jlagman]

In the fucking picture you just posted the wrist is bent unnaturally.

Since you've barked in this thread, I've visited a few gun affectionate threads that talked about the differences between stick and pistol, and it's funny how alike they sound to what I've been saying. Funny how that works when you remove an agenda from the equation.

Sorry fella. Not convinced. The us military isn't convinced.

Keep trying, it's cute.

Holy shit, a whole ~15 degrees of forward tilt in the wrist on a stock versus a pistol grip, soooooo unnatural, I think you may have just invented a new submission, the 'tard-o-plata.

 

[BVG]

Holy shit, a whole ~15 degrees of forward tilt in the wrist on a stock versus a pistol grip, soooooo unnatural, I think you may have just invented a new submission, the 'tard-o-plata.

Several posters have already admitted that pistol grips lend themselves to be more suited for combat.

Just shut it already. It's already a dead issue. (it was a dead issue BEFORE you bumped this thread foolishly) You just have an agenda at this point to trying to prove me wrong...which I'm not.

See his posture? Elbows tucked in, gun tight inside the body? He can move fast yet keep his gun at the ready easier helped with the second pistol grip down the barrel of the gun. Short barrel...small silhouette...very little to snag on anything around him. Efficient. Comfortable.

You COULD do this with a stock handled machine gun but it would be uncomfortable and more clumsy.

I honestly don't know why you keep posting.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

In the fucking picture you just posted the wrist is bent unnaturally.

Since you've barked in this thread, I've visited a few gun affectionate threads that talked about the differences between stick and pistol, and it's funny how alike they sound to what I've been saying. Funny how that works when you remove an agenda from the equation.

Sorry fella. Not convinced. The us military isn't convinced.

Keep trying, it's cute.

No it isn't. You've never handled one.

Some shitty blog...

Again the best shooters in the world use standard stocks. That is all you need to know about the manuverability and control. If a pistol grip was better they would use it. They would use it in skeet as well. Hell why would there even be shotguns without a pistol grip.

With a straight stock you can manuver while aiming and point more naturally. Both hands are in line with each other. It is more natural to control quickly while aiming.

Pure shooting the straight is better. Hands and head are in line with the rifle. For moving with the firearm in low ready the grip is better.


Agenda? You are the one spewing bs like a straight stock is clumsy.

I have a pistol grip shotgun. I like it, it's fun. But it isn't better for shooting. I am much faster with a straight stock. The reason I got this is because FN was having a blowout sale of old stock and were selling these $800 shotguns for $450.

 

[BVG]

No it isn't. You've never handled one.

Some shitty blog...

Again the best shooters in the world use standard stocks. That is all you need to know about the manuverability and control. If a pistol grip was better they would use it. They would use it in skeet as well. Hell why would there even be shotguns without a pistol grip.

With a straight stock you can manuver while aiming and point more naturally. Both hands are in line with each other. It is more natural to control quickly while aiming.

Pure shooting the straight is better. Hands and head are in line with the rifle. For moving with the firearm in low ready the grip is better.


Agenda? You are the one spewing bs like a straight stock is clumsy.

I have a pistol grip shotgun. I like it, it's fun. But it isn't better for shooting. I am much faster with a straight stock. The reason I got this is because FN was having a blowout sale of old stock and were selling these $800 shotguns for $450.

No.

There is a difference in priorities versus combat and shooting competitions...for fuck sakes.

LOL. Is this two accounts I'm dealing with?

 

[jlagman]

Several posters have already admitted that pistol grips lend themselves to be more suited for combat.

You sure about that? Let's revisit the posts shall we?

You're still not following through with your logic. Let's suppose that's the case. Why should something that makes a weapon more effective against specific targets also make it illegal? And why are you drawing the line at pistol grips?

Well hold right there. Don't go shifting goal posts on me and talking about tanks and bullshit now. We're talking about pistol grips and ability to make a weapon more effective.

Let's consider that's the case. Therefore why should that make the weapon outlawed in and of itself? You can still target a single person with that add-on. Or is that just an arbitrary line that you're drawing on the way to your tank analogy?

Do you speak English? Does, "Let's suppose that's the case" mean something different where you're from? It's not agreement, it's hypothetical, in order to intice you follow through with your dumb bullshit. Instead you got caught up on military budgets, spoons, knives, forks and shit.

I agree the pistol grip thing is a dead issue, because it's largely preferential and has nothing to do what some dumbass whose never held a gun thinks about combat design, you're wrong; it's a common occurrence when you don't actually know what you're talking about and have to post videos of neck beards juggling cutlery to make a point about firearm accessories, get over it.

As for not posting, nah, I'll keep owning you with actual knowledge and experience on firearms. I actually find it amusing to watch you squirm, dig yourself into a deeper hole and get rustled.