Crime Texas: Two fat hillbillies kill a Father over garbage

[IndyCovaHart]

If the dude with the bat didn’t make any aggressive movements towards the hicks, they’re fucked. No intent to harm=no deadly force justification. One could argue the death threats created intent though. But still, they went overboard and made sure he was dead. I didn’t watch the video, is it gory?

It’s not the gore factor which makes this video disturbing although there are flashing glimpses at the very end.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

It’s not the gore factor which makes this video disturbing although there are flashing glimpses at the very end.

Hearing the stupid bitch with the camera yell his name at the end was pretty chilling. Something just went down and the results are permanent. He looked like a physically large man, maybe 6'5 just a guess and 300 lbs. Why was she filming him physically threaten two armed fat hillbillies?

Men that size are in larger danger of being shot in situations like this, she was very niave in not trying to control him more.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

If you watched the video and think that's what happened you must have been in the Millers' meth lab.

This is a non-argument. What part of my description do you take issue with?

Also, it's funny how a quick perusal of Youtube comments shows that the overwhelming majority agree Howard was the aggressor and are even more sympathetic towards the Millers than I am.



"Vic McLaglen6 days ago
If a police officer was forced to shoot and kill a crazy man that ignored warnings and charged at him with a bat, we wouldn't have this. But a Civilian does it...bam, murder charge. There is a clear double standard regarding self defense. The civilian is expected to allow himself to be beaten half to death before opening fire.

88"

"Gary Neely5 days ago
I live in Abilene , Sure hope i get called on jury duty ... NOT GUILTY

21"

N I G H T S TA L K E R5 days ago
They should be let free, they're innocent.

55

Bob Powers6 days ago
I wonder if while he was lying there bleeding out if he ever thought to himself "I shouldn't have been talking all that shit..."

122

HeyImShiveR6 days ago
They should be free men. He threatened to kill them and looked like he swung a bat. Still trailer park idiots the lot of them

57

Maybe it's you who should lay off the meth?

 

[lfd0311]

Hearing the stupid bitch with the camera yell his name at the end was pretty chilling. Something just went down and the results are permanent. He looked like a physically large man, maybe 6'5 just a guess and 300 lbs. Why was she filming him physically threaten two armed fat hillbillies?

Men that size are in larger danger of being shot in situations like this, she was very niave in not trying to control him more.

She was there to establish the rules. Mainly "ya'll not gun shoot my huzzband".

 

[lfd0311]

This is a non-argument. What part of my description do you take issue with?

Also, it's funny how a quick perusal of Youtube comments shows that the overwhelming majority agree Howard was the aggressor and are even more sympathetic towards the Millers than I am.



"Vic McLaglen6 days ago
If a police officer was forced to shoot and kill a crazy man that ignored warnings and charged at him with a bat, we wouldn't have this. But a Civilian does it...bam, murder charge. There is a clear double standard regarding self defense. The civilian is expected to allow himself to be beaten half to death before opening fire.

88"

"Gary Neely5 days ago
I live in Abilene , Sure hope i get called on jury duty ... NOT GUILTY

21"

N I G H T S TA L K E R5 days ago
They should be let free, they're innocent.

55

Bob Powers6 days ago
I wonder if while he was lying there bleeding out if he ever thought to himself "I shouldn't have been talking all that shit..."

122

HeyImShiveR6 days ago
They should be free men. He threatened to kill them and looked like he swung a bat. Still trailer park idiots the lot of them

57

Maybe it's you who should lay off the meth?

Oh, experts on YT don't think so?

https://www.reporternews.com/story/...howard-john-miller-michael-miller/1419910002/

Can't possibly imagine why they charged these dudes with murder.

@VivaRevolution, you just totally surrender, bro?

 

[Slick_36]

Hearing the stupid bitch with the camera yell his name at the end was pretty chilling. Something just went down and the results are permanent. He looked like a physically large man, maybe 6'5 just a guess and 300 lbs. Why was she filming him physically threaten two armed fat hillbillies?

Men that size are in larger danger of being shot in situations like this, she was very niave in not trying to control him more.

She might of been filming for evidence of whatever he did or didn't do. Sounds like he had enough problems with the law that they could say whatever about the guy and it would stick, filming at least gave a record of what would happen. I don't think she expected that.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

She might of been filming for evidence of whatever he did or didn't do. Sounds like he had enough problems with the law that they could say whatever about the guy and it would stick, filming at least gave a record of what would happen. I don't think she expected that.

No she expected her husband to beat the shit out of those guys and get it on film I think. They miscalculated. Not trying to glorify the fat hillbillys actions but it is what it is. He called their bluff and they were serious.

 

[lifelessheap]

He obviously wasn't afraid for his life. He was standing there with a gun in his hand daring the guy to give him an excuse to use it. They killed a neighbor they didn't like over a dumpster. I hope they go to jail.

How would you feel if a 6'6" 300 pound beast of a man was threatening to kill you and acting like an unhinged lunatic? Judging by the woman filming, orange shirt must have been bullying people and beating people on the regular. She was escalating the situation, and talking about it like it was second nature to her. I assume orange shirt was an asshole that intimidated everyone in his way to get what he wanted, and when these rednecks produced guns he lost his mind because he couldn't bully them.

I would have backed away slowly while keeping my gun ready, but those men were entitled to their space. So the orange shirt lunatic should have stayed away from them. Oh well, he is gone now. His ego got the best of him.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

How would you feel if a 6'6" 300 pound beast of a man was threatening to kill you and acting like an unhinged lunatic? Judging by the woman filming, orange shirt must have been bullying people and beating people on the regular. She was escalating the situation, and talking about it like it was second nature to her. I assume orange shirt was an asshole that intimidated everyone in his way to get what he wanted, and when these rednecks produced guns he lost his mind because he couldn't bully them.

I would have backed away slowly while keeping my gun ready, but those men were entitled to their space. So the orange shirt lunatic should have stayed away from them. Oh well, he is gone now. His ego got the best of him.

That's a very flippant response. First of all never assume. We'll see what a jury decides on this matter. They had the power, yet decided to escalate the situation, rather than checking their egos and just walking away.

 

[lifelessheap]

That's a very flippant response. First of all never assume. We'll see what a jury decides on this matter. They had the power, yet decided to escalate the situation, rather than checking their egos and just walking away.

First of all I will assume whatever I want. This is a fucking Karate forum full of nerds. They did not escalate. Old fatty stayed calm and clearly asked for the lunatic to stay away in a polite fashion. The dead man blew his top and lost all control while his dumb fuck woman egged him on.

If he is dumb enough to act that irrationally and aggressively to armed men, well fucking imagine what he would do to unarmed people. The trash was taken out that day.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

Oh, experts on YT don't think so?

You completely missed the point. These are random, average people with no knowledge of either party witnessing the confrontation for the first time. Contrary to Ghost in the Dark's blatant lie I was responding to, ordinary folks overwhelmingly believe that Howard was a violent, rage-filled aggressor and the Millers were acting in self-defense.

That does not mean the Millers acted perfectly themselves, but it shows who the instigator was in damn near everyone's mind.

https://www.reporternews.com/story/...howard-john-miller-michael-miller/1419910002/

Can't possibly imagine why they charged these dudes with murder.

They can charge them with whatever they want; it remains to be seen whether they will be convicted. Even the official police statements clearly favor the position that the Millers were acting in self-defense. It's also notable that their bail was set at only $25k. In most murder cases, there is no bail of any kind, or if there is, it's over $500k. Why so low in this case? Couldn't have anything to do with the extenuating circumstances of the video shot by Howard's own wife (egging him on, no less!), could it?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

First of all I will assume whatever I want. This is a fucking Karate forum full of nerds. They did not escalate. Old fatty stayed calm and clearly asked for the lunatic to stay away in a polite fashion. The dead man blew his top and lost all control while his dumb fuck woman egged him on.

If he is dumb enough to act that irrationally and aggressively to armed men, well fucking imagine what he would do to unarmed people. The trash was taken out that day.

Make an ass out of yourself as often as you like. That was not responsible gun ownership being displayed despite what you believe. We'll see how things turn out for them in a court of law.

 

[lifelessheap]

You completely missed the point. These are random, average people with no knowledge of either party witnessing the confrontation for the first time. Contrary to Ghost in the Dark's blatant lie I was responding to, ordinary folks overwhelmingly believe that Howard was a violent, rage-filled aggressor and the Millers were acting in self-defense.

That does not mean the Millers acted perfectly themselves, but it shows who the instigator was in damn near everyone's mind.



They can charge them with whatever they want; it remains to be seen whether they will be convicted. Even the official police statements clearly favor the position that the Millers were acting in self-defense. It's also notable that their bail was set at only $25k. In most murder cases, there is no bail of any kind, or if there is, it's over $500k. Why so low in this case? Couldn't have anything to do with the extenuating circumstances of the video shot by Howard's own wife (egging him on, no less!), could it?

There is a very good chance they are getting over charged on purpose. If they are over charged with murder then they can easily be found not guilty. Manslaughter would be easier to prove in court.

 

[Slick_36]

No she expected her husband to beat the shit out of those guys and get it on film I think. They miscalculated. Not trying to glorify the fat hillbillys actions but it is what it is. He called their bluff and they were serious.

If that was her intention, she probably wouldn't have released the video. It's highly unlikely she was filming to see him beat them up, they were armed with guns. They probably filmed it because people/authorities wouldn't believe them since he has a history of anger and a record. Like Viva said, it's he said/she said without a video.

 

[Slick_36]

There is a very good chance they are getting over charged on purpose. If they are over charged with murder then they can easily be found not guilty. Manslaughter would be easier to prove in court.

I would be ok with manslaughter, they're 100% guilty there. Murder is harder to judge, they may not have set out to kill him, but they were negligent resulting in a death.

 

[Slick_36]

You completely missed the point. These are random, average people with no knowledge of either party witnessing the confrontation for the first time. Contrary to Ghost in the Dark's blatant lie I was responding to, ordinary folks overwhelmingly believe that Howard was a violent, rage-filled aggressor and the Millers were acting in self-defense.

That does not mean the Millers acted perfectly themselves, but it shows who the instigator was in damn near everyone's mind.



They can charge them with whatever they want; it remains to be seen whether they will be convicted. Even the official police statements clearly favor the position that the Millers were acting in self-defense. It's also notable that their bail was set at only $25k. In most murder cases, there is no bail of any kind, or if there is, it's over $500k. Why so low in this case? Couldn't have anything to do with the extenuating circumstances of the video shot by Howard's own wife (egging him on, no less!), could it?

Go look at the comments on the Cheerios commerical with a mixed race couple. Thinking YouTube comments speak for society as a whole is insane.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

There is a very good chance they are getting over charged on purpose. If they are over charged with murder then they can easily be found not guilty. Manslaughter would be easier to prove in court.

Why, it's almost like the police and DA aren't a fan of the well-known local violent bully Aaron Howard, whose house they had been called to many times over the past few months! Howard threatening the mailman to the point where he wouldn't even come by anymore probably doesn't help.

Who knew?

Go look at the comments on the Cheerios commerical with a mixed race couple. Thinking YouTube comments speak for society as a whole is insane.

This is a ludicrous, dishonest comparison. Then again, dishonest is how you've consistently framed this situation, so no surprises there.

Mixed race couples trigger certain groups, who then link to the video on their sites/forums with "look how bad this is!" Ergo the comments are by those same angry people.

By contrast, who the hell is triggered by the video? It's one white guy facing off against two white guys. What is the angle here?

 

[Slick_36]

Why, it's almost like the police and DA aren't a fan of the well-known local violent bully Aaron Howard, whose house they had been called to many times over the past few months! Howard threatening the mailman to the point where he wouldn't even come by anymore probably doesn't help.

Who knew?



This is a ludicrous, dishonest comparison. Then again, dishonest is how you've consistently framed this situation, so no surprises there.

Mixed race couples trigger certain groups, who then link to the video on their sites/forums with "look how bad this is!" Ergo the comments are by those same angry people.

By contrast, who the hell is triggered by the video? It's one white guy facing off against two white guys. What is the angle here?

My point wasn't that it was racist, it's that stupid people are the loudest on there and just life in general. Nothing dishonest about it.

 

[lfd0311]

You completely missed the point. These are random, average people with no knowledge of either party witnessing the confrontation for the first time.

Why do you think that makes your point more valid? It actually makes it less valid. Context is the key to everything. These guy's clear response to anything, like a neighbor asking them why took the mattress he has twice put in the dumpster that is shared by them back into the dumpster so the city will take it away out of the dumpster and put it on the ground was to simply pull guns. That's a display of intent. That's how our laws work. These guys weren't thrust unwillingly into a situation where they had to shoot someone. There first reaction was to pull guns and attempt to intimidate their neighbors. That's who they are, and that escalated what wasn't even a dispute until they decided to pull guns out, over a mattress, into a shooting death in under 3 minutes. That's why they got charged with murder and that's hopefully why they spend the rest of their lives in Prison. These are not the dudes you should be defending. This isn't a "We're pro Second Amendment" argument. People in this country are absolutely trying to take your guns away. And they're trying to take them away from you specifically because of the preponderance of douchebags like these two within our society.

Contrary to Ghost in the Dark's blatant lie I was responding to, ordinary folks overwhelmingly believe that Howard was a violent, rage-filled aggressor and the Millers were acting in self-defense.

What lie? You keep talking about "but if you read the local police reports it contradicts the WaPo article etc, etc" despite the fact that the last article I linked to you WAS the link to the local report, the Abilene Reporter, in which it states the following:

"A heated argument Sept. 1 in the alley in the 4300 block of Don Juan Street about a mattress/box spring discarded in the community trash container turned deadly, with Howard, 37, shot in the chest, head and arm. The Millers were arrested by Abilene police immediately and charged with murder.

“We had never spoken to the Millers until that morning,” said Kara Box, Howard's common-law wife, Monday."

"On Sept. 1, a Saturday, Howard, Box, Campbell and Campbell’s three children were driving down the alley in a Suburban pulling a trailer to put items in the backyard, Box said. They noticed a twin-sized mattress/box spring that they had put in the community trash container several days earlier was on the ground next to their property, she said.

After Howard returned the mattress to the trash bin, John Miller came out into the alley, pulled the mattress out and threw it on the ground, Box said.

Howard yelled at him to put it back in the container so that the city would pick it up, Box said.

John Miller pulled out a gun from his shorts and refused to pick up the mattress, Box said. Michael Miller popped his head out of the gate for a moment, disappeared and then came out to the alley with a shotgun.

About a minute into the argument, Box started videoing the scene. Campbell removed the children from the Suburban and took them into the house. He also called 911, Box said.

The cellphone video lasts 2:33 minutes and is available online at ReporterNews.com (Warning: It contains obscene language and is graphic.)"

These are the people you're defending. Never, ever spoken to there neighbors before. Takes a mattress out of the dumpster, throws it on the ground, refuses to put it back in, pulls gun when asked to put it back in, shoots guy over it.

That does not mean the Millers acted perfectly themselves, but it shows who the instigator was in damn near everyone's mind.

It looks to be the Millers to me. This Howard dude is clearly not innocent, but if your first interaction with your new neighbor is to pull a gun over a mattress, you're a crazy person.

Secondly, to try and pretend that those YT comments represent anything other than you selecting a handpicked set of quotes from ultra far right posters and attempting to pass them off as "Every day, normal people" and the "majority of people" is really kind of lame.

They can charge them with whatever they want; it remains to be seen whether they will be convicted. Even the official police statements clearly favor the position that the Millers were acting in self-defense. It's also notable that their bail was set at only $25k. In most murder cases, there is no bail of any kind, or if there is, it's over $500k. Why so low in this case? Couldn't have anything to do with the extenuating circumstances of the video shot by Howard's own wife (egging him on, no less!), could it?

This Police Report is in the Miller's favor? If that's true, they would not have been arrested for murder in the first place. There is a large gap in your critical thinking there.

http://press.abilenepolice.org/index.php?mode=thread&id=710

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

I would be ok with manslaughter, they're 100% guilty there. Murder is harder to judge, they may not have set out to kill him, but they were negligent resulting in a death.

5 shots fired that ain't no manslaughter bud. They were shooting to kill.