Crime Texas: Two fat hillbillies kill a Father over garbage

[second sight]

O

They were confronting a guy committing a crime in the alley behind their home. That shit is aggravating as fuck. The garbagemen won't take it and now you have to pay to have it picked up by a private garbage pickup service or load it into your truck, take it to the dump and pay to dump it. Or just have an old mattress rotting behind your house forever.

i doubt it was a crime, likely a shared dumpster

 

[brothir]

Were they? The guy was daring them to point the guns at him which would have been brandishing.

My understanding is that brandishing a weapon is basically holding it, so that it's not in a holster or the like. For instance, the son has a hold around the handle of the shotty leaning it on his shoulder, rather than having it in a strap on his back or waist. So he's brandishing, rather than carrying as I understand it.

 

[method115]

You assume these guys are poor because...

They are in a trashy back alley worried about people dumping shit there. Sure they could be rich but that's not where I'd place my money if I had to bet.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I know Texas is open carry, but there's more than just breaking gun laws. I can have a license to drive a car, and still be convicted on other crimes while driving my car.

Plus there's civil suits where surely the family will sue. Open carry doesn't mean you can just shoot anyone. I mean from what I see on just the tape, this was justified. But just for the sake of having conversation while working from home, I'm talking about what we didn't see.

Carrying might not be a charge, but an overzealous prosecutor could try to prove criminal intent with why he carried in the first place. Being Texas that's unlikely, but just saying.

So you're ignoring evidence and speculating because you don't like the evidence provided?

 

[uppercutbus]

The woman's own video clears them I bet.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

They are in a trashy back alley worried about people dumping shit there. Sure they could be rich but that's not where I'd place my money if I had to bet.

What does a non trashy back alley look like? And since your so rich, you don't mind me dumpimg garbage behind your house?

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Jesus...do people not know how to de-escalate a situation without killing someone?

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

This is from the wiki about the texas open carry law:
As of January 1, 2016, holders of a Texas CHL or LTC are able to openly carry handguns in the same places that allow concealed carry with some exceptions. Openly carried handguns must be in a shoulder or belt holster.

I don't think that guy how is hand gun in a shoulder or belt holster. Not sure how much that changes things in this situation if it could be see as him going out an intimidating people with a weapon or something.

They had their weapons at the ready because a psychotic was yelling death threats at them while his harpy of a wife egged him on.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm sure the law in Texas differentiates between having a gun clearly holstered on your hip against walking around with it in your hand and finger on the trigger.

I don't think either of them even had their fingers on the trigger. They seemed like safe operaters of those weapons. Handled the guy with allot less bullets then cops seem to be able to do it with.

As far as holding the gun, they were confronting someone who was already breaking the law. They had every reason to think the situation could turn hostile, and they were right.

Let's not confuse this at all with shooting someone trying to run away, after breaking into your car. This dumbass gave the old man every reason to legally kill him, and his idiot wife filmed it, just to prove their innocence.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

So you're ignoring evidence and speculating because you don't like the evidence provided?

What are you talking? I said, multiple times, simply based on the portion of video provided it was a justified shooting. I feel like you don't read full posts, just focus on the parts you don't like.

 

[Madmick]

News story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...over-mattress-man-said-then-he-was-shot-dead/

This takes the cake. this is the most senseless, unnecessary death you will see. Everyone involved was an idiot. The man that was shot appeared to pull out a baseball bat after screaming at the armed hillbillies, you can tell because in the full video he throws the baseball bat after the two pistol shots.

In a way it's hard to not say it was self defense...the guy drew a baseball bat and said he would kill them.

Anyways I am using this to soap box on gun owners. It is very obvious to me that some gun owners think that buying some 300$ EC9 or mossberg shockwave that they are now powerful. This is merely an observation of mine. I have bought 10+ guns in the last year, I am around gun nuts all the time because shooting is fun. I am just observing this commonality in the community. One of my friends texted me "I feel so powerful" after he bought his first ar15. I was disturbed because even if he was joking that isn't something I would even think to say because it's weird as fuck.

This video in particular has kind of fucked me up. Last week I was walking my dog and some lady on the path started ordering me off the path because my dog was "going to attack her". She was crazy. I just ignored her because why would I entertain that? Ego. I should have just complied.

Instead I just ignored her and held my dog's leash tighter. When I was within 10 feet or so she bladed her stance and put her hand on her hip like she was about to draw on me. All I said to her was "you are not about to shoot my dog". She did not do anything, because obviously she was just trying to intimidate me to do what she wanted. I can't help but feel like she thought the fact that she was armed meant she could get me to do what she wanted.

In the video you hear the now deceased man ordering the two fat fucks what to do, "go back inside and put the gun away" when he himself could have done the exact same thing.

I understand why gun owners are viewed so negatively now.

Are your panties in a twist because this isn't true, or because it clearly is?

Those "fat hillbillies" warned him about a hundred times. They're being charged with 1st degree homicide? That's bizarre.

From the WaPo story it sounds like the man who got killed was putting his mattress in the hillbilly's dumpster. It's incredibly disappointing that none of the journalists reporting this in any newspaper I can find felt compelled to investigate this question...since, you know, it's the most important question to answer. It would tell us why this dumpster was a source of dispute. I can't tell if this was a common trash bin shared between their properties, or if it belonged to the hillbillies exclusively. The alley where it resides is neutral ground, but that doesn't tell us who pays for and has rights to the dumpster itself. I can't infer from the charges who's trash it was.

It sounds to me like the victim was possibly a trash pirate-- fuck those people. If so, that's like the people who throw their mattresses into restaurant/business dumpsters to avoid paying dump fees. This is a major problem for any public business that doesn't literally lock up its dumpsters. Even then, if it's in a dark, secluded area, they come and throw their garbage on top of the dumpster, anyway. They don't care. That's why major corporations put street light lamps above their dumpsters, and burn money keeping them lit during all hours of the night: because of leech pieces of shit.

Box and Howard had thrown the mattress in the dumpster a couple days earlier, she said. But on Sept. 1, they saw the mattress back on their property. So Howard moved it back to the dumpster. Box said Howard’s nieces, nephews and brothers were with them, too. She told the paper that she and her husband then watched the elder Miller, John, walk to the dumpster, pull the mattress out and toss it back on Howard’s property.

That’s when, Box said, Howard and Miller started shouting at each other. John Miller pulled a handgun out of his basketball shorts, she said, and, at some point, his son arrived with a shotgun. Then Box started to record.

Heavy.com reports of the victim:

Box said Howard battled mental illness his entire life, but was getting help for a condition called IED, otherwise known as Intermittent Explosive Disorder, before he was killed. The couple was together for two years and were engaged to be married.

I wonder what her excuse is for being stupid enough to smugly declare, "You're not going to shoot my husband." Lady, you don't have a gun, don't tell people with the guns what they're going to do. This isn't Texas Hold 'Em--- wtf are you thinking calling bluffs? Did you consider what the consequences would be if you called it wrongly? Clearly not, and you passively encouraged your husband by emboldening him with that language.

Play stupid games.

 

[method115]

They had their weapons at the ready because a psychotic was yelling death threats at them while his harpy of a wife egged him on.

That's an assumption though? From what he's saying he started getting psychotic because they came out with guns. You can't open carry a handgun the way the older man was. So we don't know if he came out with his gun drawn like that or not.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I don't think either of them even had their fingers on the trigger. They seemed like safe operaters of those weapons. Handled the guy with allot less bullets then cops seem to be able to do it with.

As far as holding the gun, they were confronting someone who was already breaking the law. They had every reason to think the situation could turn hostile, and they were right.

A Texas prosecutor obviously feels differently since they have been charged with murder from what I read earlier.

If someone is dumping garbage in my alley, addressing them with my gun drawn the moment I walk out the back door of my house is not an appropriate response. Coming out with my gun holstered safely is one thing.

And lazily slinging a shotgun over your shoulder like some type of movie character is not safe handling of a firearm IMO. The old guy seemed to have better gun handling safety than the younger guy with him.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Jesus...do people not know how to de-escalate a situation without killing someone?

How would you have de escalated that situation without just allowing the guy to dump trash behind your house?

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

That's an assumption though? From what he's saying he started getting psychotic because they came out with guns. You can't open carry a handgun the way the older man was. So we don't know if he came out with his gun drawn like that or not.

I'm gonna take a wild guess the guy has a history of incidents like this one.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I mean who tries to provoke two armed people?

seriously, who does that?

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

A Texas prosecutor obviously feels differently since they have been charged with murder from what I read earlier.

If someone is dumping garbage in my alley, addressing them with my gun drawn the moment I walk out the back door of my house is not an appropriate response. Coming out with my gun holstered safely is one thing.

And lazily slinging a shotgun over your shoulder like some type of movie character is not safe handling of a firearm IMO. The old guy seemed to have better gun handling safety than the younger guy with him.

I didn't like the kid's stance either.

 

[glenwo2]

Yeah. Dude is gonna have a closed casket funeral after that head shot.

Too soon???

I was actually referring to the Legal aspect regarding Tweedle-Fat and Tweedle-Fatter.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

You can't open carry a handgun the way the older man was. So we don't know if he came out with his gun drawn like that or not.

Yeah from a legal stand point I think any conviction would likely hinge on that. Did they come out of their house, guns in hand? Or did they brandish draw them afterwards?

I've been on a jury for federal case before (was a constitutional rights violation of a police officer on someone he arrested). So if I were to put myself on this jury that would be the argument I would like to hear both sides on.

 

[glenwo2]

Did she get convicted?

She's a woman.

You know the answer to that.