Take this information with a grain of salt.

ClosetVitorFan said:
When a drug burns out. It leaves something behind. It doesn't know what time it is. It's not magical. But when u take it in the morning. It's undetectable. But as the drug metabolizes later in your system. As the drug decays. It leaves something behind. All drugs do. But it leaves so little that it should be flushed out the following morning.
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and how does it flush out? in your urine? so the window becomes pointless because it will take probably 2-3 urinations to completely clear the system of it.

it wont all leave the body with the first Pee of the day.
 
Hey guys! Let's all become rich athletes so that we can spend all of our money on ridiculous drug compounds and our management! Whoop sounds like the best! Brain trauma and no money at the end of the day, sign me up.
 
dimspace said:
As for the cutting edge undetectable stuff, most of it is research chemicals from the big pharmaceutical companies uually in stage 1 or 2 clinical trials. usually stuff aimed at helping with cancer, heart disease, anemia etc.

but those companies are getting much better at supplying wada details of the products fairly early in the trials

For instance, with FG-4592 it was still in phase 1 trials when the pharma company producing it supplied details on markers etc to wada to aid detection.

Same with CJC-1295 more recently.. The trial of that was abandoned, but its floating round Europe still a a PED
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You dont really need to be in big pharma in order to make undetectable stuff... A lot of regular steroids are made for the black market by clandestine laboratories.

The same people could be working on untracable stuff too, also for OTC "supplements" and they are not informing shit to usada/wada.

By the way, TS post is obviously based on bro science and with a lot of caviots. But doesnt mean there isnt any truth behind it. It was just poorly expressed, by his friend, and the post.
 
I-dont-believe-you.gif
 
dimspace said:
wtf is a trace metabolite?

this is something invented by Frank Mir to make it sound like that wasnt very much.



Virtually everything, ever, in the entire history of anti doping is "trace".. they are getting it from a urine sample, there arent huge great lumps of HGH floating around in your piss like turds in a swimming pool.. everything detected, by the very nature of urine is "trace"



how can you take a patch in the morning, the whole point of a patch is it releases over time.

And everybody is different, we have different metabolisms, different rate of excretion, so many things effect it, hydration, wether weve eaten, our blood, kidney function.

If i took something in the morning, and you took something in the morning our bodies would react in totally different ways, it would clear our systems at different times.
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I'll try to explain it again. You sound like a retard that doesn't get it. It's untraceable because the drug being taken isn't on the USADA list!!!!

Let me break it down in layman's term. Let's say the drug heroin is a designer ped. They don't know about it. But Codeine IS on the list. I take the drug test but I fail for Codeine. Why oh why did I fail for codeine?? Simple. Heroin metabolizes INTO codeine!!! Therefore I'm busted. Even though they don't test or know about heroin. It's part of the same family and metabolized into a drug that IS on the banned list. Ugh.
That's why I said when they initially take the designer ped it's untraceable because it's not on their fucking list!!!! But the drug later metabolizes into a drug that IS on the banned list because the designer ped is in the same fuckin family. Do you u get it now?
 
Sounds right to me, TS.
They are going to be on the latest thing that is undetectable. When one gets caught, it is because the test has been perfected, and multiple catches should happen.
The poorer fighters cant afford to do undetectable juice.
I would rather see straight juicing than this, but when i see big names get caught, it seems like USADA are doing it right.
 
ClosetVitorFan said:
I'll try to explain it again. You sound like a retard that doesn't get it. It's untraceable because the drug being taken isn't on the USADA list!!!!

Let me break it down in layman's term. Let's say the drug heroin is a designer ped. They don't know about it. But Codeine IS on the list. I take the drug test but I fail for Codeine. Why oh why did I fail for codeine?? Simple. Heroin metabolizes INTO codeine!!! Therefore I'm busted. Even though they don't test or know about heroin. It's part of the same family and metabolized into a drug that IS on the banned list. Ugh.
That's why I said when they initially take the designer ped it's untraceable because it's not on their fucking list!!!! But the drug later metabolizes into a drug that IS on the banned list because the designer ped is in the same fuckin family. Do you u get it now?
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Oh.
 
When I say the drug is untraceable I don't mean that it's cloaked like a Klingon starship. The drug is in their system. It's just that the drug that IS in their system isn't on their list yet. Hence untraceable.
 
Verace said:
You dont really need to be in big pharma in order to make undetectable stuff... A lot of regular steroids are made for the black market by clandestine laboratories.

The same people could be working on untracable stuff too, also for OTC "supplements" and they are not informing shit to usada/wada.

By the way, TS post is obviously based on bro science and with a lot of caviots. But doesnt mean there isnt any truth behind it. It was just poorly expressed, by his friend, and the post.
Click to expand...

I would say 98%+ of drugs used in sport originate originally from the big pharma's as medicines intended for totally different purposes.

The big ped's of the last few years, all medicines in clinical trials, GW1516, FG4592, CJC1295 and sarms like MK677 etc all start out as legitimate research chemicals


the clandestine labs arent creating anything new, just variants on old forgotten substance, or producing their own version of things in research phase .
 
I found it interesting even if you made the whole thing up, TS! Hah..
 
ClosetVitorFan said:
I'll try to explain it again. You sound like a retard that doesn't get it. It's untraceable because the drug being taken isn't on the USADA list!!!!
Click to expand...

So its not untraceable

You said it was untraceable, then you said it was traceable during certain times, then you said that USADA are getting really good and can trace it in even lesser amounts than ever...

and now you are saying its untraceable because its "not on their list"




is it traceable or not?





and besides, usada dont detect use of something by checking against "their list".. most of the anti doping is done by looking at levels of the bodies various proteins and factors, and seeing when something rises when it shouldnt.

This magic PED will have some effect on the body, either it will raise testosterone levels, or it will raise IGF-1 Levels, or it will reduce estrogen production, or it will increase the number of red blood cells, it will have some effect in some way (or it would be totally useless. a ped that doesnt effect the physiology of the body in any way is not a ped :D)..

thats what usada work on, its like the new hgh test, that doesnt even try and detect hgh, it ues a totally different methodology, but it can prove you used hgh even if it doesnt detect hgh.

The same way either the steroidal module of the passport, or the endocrine module, or the hematological module will detect USE of this drug even if they dont detect the drug itself.
 
ClosetVitorFan said:
Exactly!! And these designer peds are very expensive. Making them cost prohibitive for the average Joe or even the average player in the NBA or NFL that make 350k a year.
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The average NBA salary is ~$4 million. The average NFL salary is currently ~$1.9 million. Little confused by your 350k illustration - even the minimum required salaries of both are above your number.

Prime example is what Mir tested postive for. He tested positive for Tianabol. It's basically an off shoot from dianobol. Tianabol was the designer steroid of its time. Created to beat the tests. But since this is like 35+ years later. Tianabol has been found out and put on the list, has been found years.
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If your story is credible or not doesn't really matter, because the concept is completely accurate. Designer PEDS will always be out in front of testing methods by nature of the development cycle. Something has to be created and used before testers can acquire and identify it.
 
ClosetVitorFan said:
When I say the drug is untraceable I don't mean that it's cloaked like a Klingon starship. The drug is in their system. It's just that the drug that IS in their system isn't on their list yet. Hence untraceable.
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honestly, your a decent poster but man.. you dont even know if this ped comes in pill, liquid, powder, patch form.. it costs something between 10k and who knows...

so you dont even know how its administered but you expect us to believe that you understand how it metabolizes in the body?
 
dimspace said:
I would say 98%+ of drugs used in sport originate originally from the big pharma's as medicines intended for totally different purposes.

The big ped's of the last few years, all medicines in clinical trials, GW1516, FG4592, CJC1295 and sarms like MK677 etc all start out as legitimate research chemicals


the clandestine labs arent creating anything new, just variants on old forgotten substance, or producing their own version of things in research phase .
Click to expand...

I just did a google search on the first one you mentioned and this is one of the first things on the page:

"(also known as GW-501,516, GW1516, GSK-516 and on the black market as Endurobol)"

So the black market/clandestine lab scene may not be creating it, but apparently they have their hands on it. Which is pretty much what matters.... i mean, who cares who created it?! Athletes just wanna use it.
 
dimspace said:
honestly, your a decent poster but man.. you dont even know if this ped comes in pill, liquid, powder, patch form.. it costs something between 10k and who knows...

so you dont even know how its administered but you expect us to believe that you understand how it metabolizes in the body?
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If I knew everything about it wouldn't USADA know all this? I'm just some schmuck who heard some rumors from a guy who is tested by USADA. This is what I was told!!! I just don't want to comment anymore because I only have bits and pieces of this quite larger puzzle.
 
dimspace said:
As for the cutting edge undetectable stuff, most of it is research chemicals from the big pharmaceutical companies uually in stage 1 or 2 clinical trials. usually stuff aimed at helping with cancer, heart disease, anemia etc.

but those companies are getting much better at supplying wada details of the products fairly early in the trials

For instance, with FG-4592 it was still in phase 1 trials when the pharma company producing it supplied details on markers etc to wada to aid detection.

Same with CJC-1295 more recently.. The trial of that was abandoned, but its floating round Europe still a a PED
Click to expand...


Dim - one thing that bugs me a little about your theory here is it doesn't have much congruity with PEDS scandals like Balco.

You had one rogue chemist invent 'clear' - which propagated through the highest levels of sport.

So history tells us there are compounds made in secret - which may be closely related to other commercially developed compounds, but are not the same.

What surety do you have that this sort of practice no longer exists?
 
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