Take this information with a grain of salt.

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Designer steroids aren't some mythical thin they exist and I'm sure WADA is aware they exist but they can't test for it because it's hard to test for something if you don't know its chemical structure or what exactly it even is.

Conte and Heredia are famous because they sold designer steroids that you couldn't test for and they obviously weren't the first or last to do so.

The doping industry is always ahead of testing as the testers can only wait and react
Heredia has repeatedly said that steroids are the lowest level of service he ever offered. They simply don't provide the benefit as his other methods and they're too easy to detect because of their effects on hormone levels, if not the chemical structures themselves.

He preferred to use his own blend of EPO and some other things. Sometimes he used some growth hormone, but since he mostly worked with track and field athletes, he didn't see much benefit in steroids or growth hormones. But he did explain some of his other methods, and quite frankly, that kind of approach along with current technology is exactly what you'd need to pass USADA testing. He beat the best testers in the world for years and years (and probably still is to this day, though he of course denies it now).
 
I have a personal friend that competes in a sport under USADA/WADA testing. No its not MMA. We started talking about peds in sports. I told him about Jon Jones and Brock testing positive for clomid. He's not a big MMA fan but he did hear about the story in the news. He was telling me most guys at the very top use a special designer ped completely untraceable by USADA. It's along the lines of Balco style designer ped. He says it costs between 10 to 20k PER MONTH! Sometimes MORE! I was like wtf! Are you serious? He said yes. Now mind you he doesn't make anywhere near that much to be able to afford a ped of that class. Usually not very many people in his sport could afford something like that.

He was telling me it's either a cream or a pill, or some kind of liquid you put under your tongue. It may even be a time released patch. He doesn't really know what form of use it is but 99 percent sure it's not injectable. Injectables are too incriminating he says.

This is how it works. You take it immediately in the morning and even after use. Let's 20 minutes after its applied and USADA were to test you. You will test clean every time. Now this drug isn't without its drawbacks. He says the time when trace metabolites of modified molecules that could show up in a test is usually in the evening. Between the hours of say 10pm to 5am. That is if you applied the drug on at 6am the day before. That time frame usually means you're ok. Because the testers aren't gonna be knocking on your door at 2am. But they will come at 6am. Now if a user didn't apply the drug until say 10 am the day before. It's very possibly to test positive if a tester tests you at say 7am the following day.

He says the tests are only getting better and better. They are able to test even more nanograms than before. But guess what drug this designer PED may metabolize in? Yep!!! Clomid! And possibly latrozole or whatever that other drug was. But the ped itself doesnt have actual clomid in it. It's modified version of it. To beat the tests. But as the drug burns off. It can leave trace metabolites of the drug clomid.

This is very true in my experience. How certain can metabolize into completely other drugs. I see a pain management doctor that prescribes Norco to me and they test me on occasion to make sure I'm not abusing my medication. Well on one test I tested positive for codeine. I never used codeine! I don't know how it got in there. I know my mom had some codeine cough syrup in her medicine cabinet but I never touched the stuff. I had no reason to lie but the doctor said the only other thing that can give a positive for codeine is if I took heroin!!! I was like wtf? I don't touch that shit. And she knows that. It was a non issue but that just let's you know that certain drugs can metabolize into completely different ones but in the same class of drugs.

He said he wouldn't be surprised if Brock and Jones were taking the same stuff. It's very very expensive.
Just crazy enough to be true

I'll remember your post when it leaks to the mainstream.
 
@ClosetVitorFan TS, there may be some truth in there

First read this:

DESIGNER STEROID DEFINTION
A Designer Steroid is usually a synthetic steroid derived by simple chemical modification from another steroid, usually an anabolic steroid. It differs from a Pro-hormone in that it does not need to convert to a active steroid via enzymes like a typical Pro-Hormone does. They are usually alittle more potent and have much higher anabolic properties than Pro-Hormones. Designer's are already active from the moment they are orally ingested and contribute right away to a higher plasma level of active hormones. Designer Steroidial compounds have there Pro's and Con's like any steroidial or hormonal substance. Side effects can be alittle more pronounced so thats why they are typically blended with Pro-Hormones to make very potent Anabolic/Androgenic cocktails. They are in terms actually steroid compounds not yet prohibited by laws governing steroid use and possession.
http://www.anabolicandrogenicresearch.com/pro-hormone-compound-info.html


Now read this:

The abuse of unknown designer androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) is considered to be an issue of significant importance, as AAS are the choice of doping preference according to World Anti-doping Agency statistics. In addition, unknown designer AAS are preferred since the World Anti-doping Agency mass spectrometric identification criteria cannot be applied to unknown molecules. Consequently, cheating athletes have a strong motive to use designer AAS in order to both achieve performance enhancement and to escape from testing positive in anti-doping tests. To face the problem, a synergy is required between the anti-doping analytical science and sports anti-doping regulations. This Review examines various aspects of the designer AAS. First, the structural modifications of the already known AAS to create new designer molecules are explained. A list of the designer synthetic and endogenous AAS is then presented. Second, we discuss progress in the detection of designer AAS using: mass spectrometry and bioassays; analytical data processing of the unknown designer AAS; metabolite synthesis; and, long-term storage of urine and blood samples. Finally, the introduction of regulations from sports authorities as preventive measures for long-term storage and reprocessing of samples, initially reported as negatives, is discussed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24702116


Im still doing research on the topic.... but looks promissing
 
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it could be a cream or a power or a dust under your tongue?? ahaha my "friend" doesn't know what it is but he knows exactly how it works. BULLSHIT
 
@ClosetVitorFan TS, you may be right....

First read this:

DESIGNER STEROID DEFINTION
A Designer Steroid is usually a synthetic steroid derived by simple chemical modification from another steroid, usually an anabolic steroid. It differs from a Pro-hormone in that it does not need to convert to a active steroid via enzymes like a typical Pro-Hormone does. They are usually alittle more potent and have much higher anabolic properties than Pro-Hormones. Designer's are already active from the moment they are orally ingested and contribute right away to a higher plasma level of active hormones. Designer Steroidial compounds have there Pro's and Con's like any steroidial or hormonal substance. Side effects can be alittle more pronounced so thats why they are typically blended with Pro-Hormones to make very potent Anabolic/Androgenic cocktails. They are in terms actually steroid compounds not yet prohibited by laws governing steroid use and possession.
http://www.anabolicandrogenicresearch.com/pro-hormone-compound-info.html


Now read this:

The abuse of unknown designer androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) is considered to be an issue of significant importance, as AAS are the choice of doping preference according to World Anti-doping Agency statistics. In addition, unknown designer AAS are preferred since the World Anti-doping Agency mass spectrometric identification criteria cannot be applied to unknown molecules. Consequently, cheating athletes have a strong motive to use designer AAS in order to both achieve performance enhancement and to escape from testing positive in anti-doping tests. To face the problem, a synergy is required between the anti-doping analytical science and sports anti-doping regulations. This Review examines various aspects of the designer AAS. First, the structural modifications of the already known AAS to create new designer molecules are explained. A list of the designer synthetic and endogenous AAS is then presented. Second, we discuss progress in the detection of designer AAS using: mass spectrometry and bioassays; analytical data processing of the unknown designer AAS; metabolite synthesis; and, long-term storage of urine and blood samples. Finally, the introduction of regulations from sports authorities as preventive measures for long-term storage and reprocessing of samples, initially reported as negatives, is discussed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24702116


Im still doing research on the topic.... but looks promissing

I think you're on the right track. It just makes me hate all of sports sometimes. Because when u really look at it. These tests only affect the poor or underclass in pro sports. They wouldn't be able to afford these types of designer drugs. But the guys at the top. They get the good stuff that's undetectable. It makes even more sense that guys are still getting popped post USADA. You would think after USADA you would fucking stop!!! You can't cycle on and off with traditional steroids/peds under USADA. You can't beat those random tests. With designer peds u can beat the tests with ease. That's why I think they should just legalize a few of the cheap peds and regulate it that way. A cheap mainstream ped has the same effect or even better because it doesnt have to hide itself!!! What a joke.
 
This sounds 100% plausible. I figured there can only be a handful of distributors that produce these designer PEDs. I assumed Jon and Brock got their stuff from the same people and there was a bad mixture that led to their busts
 
This sounds 100% plausible. I figured there can only be a handful of distributors that produce these designer PEDs. I assumed Jon and Brock got their stuff from the same people and there was a bad mixture that led to their busts
 
I have a personal friend that competes in a sport under USADA/WADA testing. No its not MMA. We started talking about peds in sports. I told him about Jon Jones and Brock testing positive for clomid. He's not a big MMA fan but he did hear about the story in the news. He was telling me most guys at the very top use a special designer ped completely untraceable by USADA.

So at this point you are saying its untraceable

It's along the lines of Balco style designer ped. He says it costs between 10 to 20k PER MONTH! Sometimes MORE! I was like wtf! Are you serious? He said yes. Now mind you he doesn't make anywhere near that much to be able to afford a ped of that class. Usually not very many people in his sport could afford something like that.

So 10k or 20k or more.. thats very vague.. there is a huge difference between 10k and more than 20k


He was telling me it's either a cream or a pill, or some kind of liquid you put under your tongue. It may even be a time released patch.

So its possibly a cream, maybe a liquid, maybe a pill, you dont know.. brillians...


This is how it works. You take it immediately in the morning and even after use. Let's 20 minutes after its applied and USADA were to test you. You will test clean every time.

So youre till saying its untraceable.. 20 minutes after taking it its totally gone from the system...

Now this drug isn't without its drawbacks. He says the time when trace metabolites of modified molecules that could show up in a test is usually in the evening. Between the hours of say 10pm to 5am. That is if you applied the drug on at 6am the day before.

Now hang on, it is traceable... but only between the hours of 10pm and 5am? So this magic drug actually knows what time of day it is? light sensitive maybe?

That time frame usually means you're ok. Because the testers aren't gonna be knocking on your door at 2am. But they will come at 6am. Now if a user didn't apply the drug until say 10 am the day before. It's very possibly to test positive if a tester tests you at say 7am the following day.

So it is traceable/detectable then..... if the tester visits after 10pm, or around 7am, or maybe 8am on a tuesday... what nonsense is this

He says the tests are only getting better and better. They are able to test even more nanograms than before.

So weve now gone from undetectable, to detectable between certain hours, to detectable all te time?


But guess what drug this designer PED may metabolize in? Yep!!! Clomid! And possibly latrozole or whatever that other drug was. But the ped itself doesnt have actual clomid in it. It's modified version of it. To beat the tests. But as the drug burns off. It can leave trace metabolites of the drug clomid.

So a ped that metabolizes itself into Clomid? well you may as well just take clomid then.....



This is very true in my experience. How certain can metabolize into completely other drugs. I see a pain management doctor that prescribes Norco to me and they test me on occasion to make sure I'm not abusing my medication. Well on one test I tested positive for codeine. I never used codeine! I don't know how it got in there. I know my mom had some codeine cough syrup in her medicine cabinet but I never touched the stuff. I had no reason to lie but the doctor said the only other thing that can give a positive for codeine is if I took heroin!!! I was like wtf? I don't touch that shit. And she knows that. It was a non issue but that just let's you know that certain drugs can metabolize into completely different ones but in the same class of drugs.

No, this is nonsense.. I dont know if you fully understand what the word metabolise means. Thats the process by which something is converted from one form to another form (the latter form being one the body can use.). But for instance asparin, can not miraculously turn into codiene, growth hormone can not miraculously turn into epo.. Some substances can cause the body to increase natural production of something, but they cant magicaly create something that is exogenous to the human body without the base elements being there. For instance, you can make water if you have hydrogen and oxygen, but you cant make water from carbon and argon..

He said he wouldn't be surprised if Brock and Jones were taking the same stuff. It's very very expensive.

well its somewhere between 10k and more than 20k

and he doesnt know what form it comes in...




yes, there are cutting edge drugs being used by athletes, but your mate is talking crap ;)
 
I think you're on the right track. It just makes me hate all of sports sometimes. Because when u really look at it. These tests only affect the poor or underclass in pro sports. They wouldn't be able to afford these types of designer drugs. But the guys at the top. They get the good stuff that's undetectable. It makes even more sense that guys are still getting popped post USADA. You would think after USADA you would fucking stop!!! You can't cycle on and off with traditional steroids/peds under USADA. You can't beat those random tests. With designer peds u can beat the tests with ease. That's why I think they should just legalize a few of the cheap peds and regulate it that way. A cheap mainstream ped has the same effect or even better because it doesnt have to hide itself!!! What a joke.
Yes... basically from what i understand so far it goes:

USADA has a list of banned substances.
Shady lab changes known steroid molecule just enough so its considered "another substance" but still keeps many of its benefits.
New substance is not on the list. Athlete passes.

This can go on for quite some time and USADA will always be behind the curve. No way around it.
 
As for the cutting edge undetectable stuff, most of it is research chemicals from the big pharmaceutical companies uually in stage 1 or 2 clinical trials. usually stuff aimed at helping with cancer, heart disease, anemia etc.

but those companies are getting much better at supplying wada details of the products fairly early in the trials

For instance, with FG-4592 it was still in phase 1 trials when the pharma company producing it supplied details on markers etc to wada to aid detection.

Same with CJC-1295 more recently.. The trial of that was abandoned, but its floating round Europe still a a PED
 
Or...... he did a traditional cycle and got caught on PCT
 
It may not be a cream. A cream needs to be meticulously measured. It may very well be a patch. Just slap it on one of your ass cheeks. A patch is measured perfectly every time. But if it's a cream there is a bigger margin of error no doubt. Just sloppiness from Jones.

but the whole point of a patch is to release the substance over time.. how the hell would that work with this "suddenly appears in your system between 10pm and 5am" thing...

How does this substance know its 10pm?
 
So at this point you are saying its untraceable



So 10k or 20k or more.. thats very vague.. there is a huge difference between 10k and more than 20k




So its possibly a cream, maybe a liquid, maybe a pill, you dont know.. brillians...




So youre till saying its untraceable.. 20 minutes after taking it its totally gone from the system...



Now hang on, it is traceable... but only between the hours of 10pm and 5am? So this magic drug actually knows what time of day it is? light sensitive maybe?



So it is traceable/detectable then..... if the tester visits after 10pm, or around 7am, or maybe 8am on a tuesday... what nonsense is this



So weve now gone from undetectable, to detectable between certain hours, to detectable all te time?




So a ped that metabolizes itself into Clomid? well you may as well just take clomid then.....





No, this is nonsense.. I dont know if you fully understand what the word metabolise means. Thats the process by which something is converted from one form to another form (the latter form being one the body can use.). But for instance asparin, can not miraculously turn into codiene, growth hormone can not miraculously turn into epo.. Some substances can cause the body to increase natural production of something, but they cant magicaly create something that is exogenous to the human body without the base elements being there. For instance, you can make water if you have hydrogen and oxygen, but you cant make water from carbon and argon..



well its somewhere between 10k and more than 20k

and he doesnt know what form it comes in...




yes, there are cutting edge drugs being used by athletes, but your mate is talking crap ;)
What I'm saying is the designer ped metabolizes into clomid. Because the molecule is basically an off shoot of clomid but not clomid.

There's a reason why they always get popped for "trace metabolites" if Jon were taking a full on PCT cycle with clomid. It wouldnt be nanograms of trace metabolites. It would be full on test positive for clomid.

You're right aspirin doesn't metabolize into a ped or morphine because it's not in the same family. But a modified molecule of a ped or ped cocktail may metabolize later into something that's in the same family and is on the USADA banned list.

The drug is supposed to be undetectable upon application but it is detectable when it burns out. I.E. Not working anymore. Every drug that burns out leaves something. This does the same thing but only between hours where u should be sleeping. Hence why u take it in the morning.
 
but the whole point of a patch is to release the substance over time.. how the hell would that work with this "suddenly appears in your system between 10pm and 5am" thing...

How does this substance know its 10pm?
When a drug burns out. It leaves something behind. It doesn't know what time it is. It's not magical. But when u take it in the morning. It's undetectable. But as the drug metabolizes later in your system. As the drug decays. It leaves something behind. All drugs do. But it leaves so little that it should be flushed out the following morning.
 
What I'm saying is the designer ped metabolizes into clomid. Because the molecule is basically an off shoot of clomid but not clomid.

There's a reason why they always get popped for "trace metabolites" if Jon were taking a full on PCT cycle with clomid. It wouldnt be nanograms of trace metabolites. It would be full on test positive for clomid.

You're right aspirin doesn't metabolize into a ped or morphine because it's not in the same family. But a modified molecule of a ped or ped cocktail may metabolize later into something that's in the same family and is on the USADA banned list.

The drug is supposed to be undetectable upon application but it is detectable when it burns out. I.E. Not working anymore. Every drug that burns out leaves something. This does the same thing but only between hours where u should be sleeping.

wtf is a trace metabolite?

this is something invented by Frank Mir to make it sound like that wasnt very much.



Virtually everything, ever, in the entire history of anti doping is "trace".. they are getting it from a urine sample, there arent huge great lumps of HGH floating around in your piss like turds in a swimming pool.. everything detected, by the very nature of urine is "trace"

Hence why u take it in the morning.

how can you take a patch in the morning, the whole point of a patch is it releases over time.

And everybody is different, we have different metabolisms, different rate of excretion, so many things effect it, hydration, wether weve eaten, our blood, kidney function.

If i took something in the morning, and you took something in the morning our bodies would react in totally different ways, it would clear our systems at different times.
 
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