Systema -"A Phd for those with batchelors, you're talking to guys who haven't graduated high school"

[TheMaster]

2. Wrestling/boxing sparrings in self-defense systems are used in fight preparation not to prepare for a one-on-one sports duel, but to introduce a student to a real fight. If he cannot confront by rules even one opponent, he will never cope with 2-3 in a real fight.
3. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
- "so many very experienced sometimes 15 or 20+ year martial artists say it is legit? BJJ and Judo bb's, some former pro mma fighters, kickboxing champions etc"

List mentioned fighters with links to their official statements that the System is working and suitable for preparing for street collisions style, please. Proof or BS.

- "they saw great value in becoming a wannabe spetznaz "

Nope, just making easy money on suckers who are ready to do anything, just to get cool-colored belts there regularly and constantly eat stories about the invincibility of style in street fights and their own toughness.

- "low level hobbyist"

If it's of some importance, I'm master of sports candidate in boxing. I have been training from 2000 to the present, competed from 2001 to 2006.

Is it high enough for you? Can I please find out your level in martial arts/combat sports - the number of official fights, victories / defeats, participation in tournaments and other events?

- "but doesnt like Russia to be 'tarnished' by predominently American mma fans likewise ignorant opinions?"

Have you ever wondered why the representatives of the Systema fled from Russia with shame, but did flourish in the west with magnificent colors? Because here, in Russia, no one believes their tales about the "special forces training system" and other nonsense.

- I have encountered many high level and experienced guys from other arts who do it.
In fact, as an excersise you can do a search of systema instructors and find about their training background. Many came from full contact kickboxing backgrounds that you love.

Also the OP quote which u have ducked so far. Dan had 4 pro MMA fights and is BJJ blackbelt with Hallman and Gokor/Lebell blackbelt. As legit as they get I would say and gave an endorsement of a realitively unkown systema guy who also had a long martial arts history before. You see, not everyone wants to sport fight or become famous but can still reach top level skills.

Also, the systema heads did not 'leave Russia in shame', Vasiliev has (so far unverified) award for his contributions of a govt medal and passive endorsement from Oleg Taktarov who starred in a vid with him. Oleg is prob second most famous mma fighter ever out of Russia next to Fedor - so quite a strong endorsement dont you think, a former UFC champion and legend of the sport.

 

[Dexter]

You are hopeless. Either a naive enthusiast, or the same charlatan, like your friends from the Systema, with their wild stories about the development of style in Russia (which do not stand up to criticism) and completely insane stories about the "bodyguards of Stalin", KGB, FSB ("I know karate, wushu, kungfu, aikido ... and many other scary words shit").

- I have encountered many high level and experienced guys from other arts who do it.
In fact, as an excersise you can do a search of systema instructors and find about their training background. Many came from full contact kickboxing backgrounds that you love.

I politely asked you to list "so many very experienced sometimes 15 or 20+ year martial artists", not to send me to search engine.

Also the OP quote which u have ducked so far.

A bold statement from a person who completely ignores all the facts that DO NOT work for his version, and at the same time manages to call his sherbros "idiots" .

Dan had 4 pro MMA fights and is BJJ blackbelt with Hallman and Gokor/Lebell blackbelt. As legit as they get I would say and gave an endorsement of a realitively unkown systema guy who also had a long martial arts history before. You see, not everyone wants to sport fight or become famous but can still reach top level skills.

What does the number of fights related to the use of specific skills in the battle? If I practice Thai boxing for ten years and aikido for six months and win competitions, does this mean that aikido is a working style? Or if the Aikido Federation pays me to tell at all press conferences that I do aikido?

Also, the systema heads did not 'leave Russia in shame', Vasiliev has (so far unverified) award for his contributions of a govt medal and passive endorsement from Oleg Taktarov who starred in a vid with him. Oleg is prob second most famous mma fighter ever out of Russia next to Fedor - so quite a strong endorsement dont you think, a former UFC champion and legend of the sport.

Not "unverified", but a completely falsified statement.
And I have to disappoint you - Oleg Taktarov really once was well known as a fighter, but he turned into a clown long ago, throwing shit on a fan in the internet and advertising beer. He has no authority in Russia, and is the same freak as Alexander Emelianenko. In Russian forums, he is notorious for his boorish and delusional statements.

 

[Russky]

And I have to disappoint you - Oleg Taktarov really once was well known as a fighter, but he turned into a clown long ago, throwing shit on a fan in the internet and advertising beer.

He did not "endorse" the Systema, he was earning money along with Vasiliev on this shit. https://systemavasiliev.com/store/product/russian-mega-fighting-dvd/

 

[SandisLL]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Taktarov

Sambo, Judo, Jujutsu, Boxing

Here nothing is about Systema.<45>

 

[ThufirHawat]

Fencing? Check.
Contact sensitivity? Check.
Thufir Hawat? Check.

Yep, definitely Caladan.

KANLY!

Le gasp! You uncovered my secret* identity!

Have we met, perchance, or are you in the employ of a rival family? Either way, my point was merely that contact sensitivity is a concept used - to various degrees - in many arts all over the world.

*Only published in around 20 miliions of copies worldwide in the novel "Dune".


Also, I've met two guys who were practicing Systema and Wing Chun, years ago, and got to spar with one of them. He mostly sparred using Wing Chun and credited Systema for his non-linear strikes (which he didn't use much, he'd been studying Wing Chun for years by then, and had only recently started learning Systema) and for the ability to withstand strikes to the body, which he demonstrated.
Make of that what you wish, because I only met them that one time. They didn't turn me into a proponent of Systema, and indeed didn't try to explain its principles, so I still don't know what the shaking was for. But he was shaking a bit upon receiving each hit, and claimed that it nullified the power of my blow. All I could say is, it seemed to work for him.

 

[TheMaster]

I politely asked you to list "so many very experienced sometimes 15 or 20+ year martial artists", not to send me to search engine.


What does the number of fights related to the use of specific skills in the battle? If I practice Thai boxing for ten years and aikido for six months and win competitions, does this mean that aikido is a working style? Or if the Aikido Federation pays me to tell at all press conferences that I do aikido?


Not "unverified", but a completely falsified statement.
And I have to disappoint you - Oleg Taktarov really once was well known as a fighter, but he turned into a clown long ago, throwing shit on a fan in the internet and advertising beer. He has no authority in Russia, and is the same freak as Alexander Emelianenko. In Russian forums, he is notorious for his boorish and delusional statements.

Your friend Russky the researcher may enjoy the task.

https://www.russianmartialart.com/schoollocator.php

List of certified systema schools and instructors. You can see just how many of them have often years of martial experience behind them, some of them Judo blackbelts and kickboxing or karate champions. So looks like for u it must be all some grand international conspiracy involving hundreds of people across nations - please stay off the weed.

You have one name, Dan Theodore. He has sparred numerous UFC champs including Tito Ortiz etc. Trained personally with a high level systema guy and said he is legit. Thats right, there is literally footage posted of him being hit and even handled somewhat and he said so himself, but your brainwashed delusional ass cant even register with your own eyes or hear with your ears. How hard is this to get into your brain?

Also shame on you for trashing on Oleg, one of Russia's finest warriors and the guy who put sambo on the map in the US.
He is a legend.

He did not "endorse" the Systema, he was earning money along with Vasiliev on this shit. https://systemavasiliev.com/store/product/russian-mega-fighting-dvd/

His starring with Vasiliev is a passive endorsement of Vladimir himself and his recognition of his skills. 10x stronger endorsement than if he had simply verbally said it. This cannot be escaped. It was in early 90's where he was a famous name in the martial arts world and a UFC champion. He can make plenty of money teaching seminars and making his own vids rather than starring in a vid with a then little known systema guy. But he did so. A man like Oleg would not put his name alongside just anyone and had no need to. Of course, he chose one of the best in Vladimir.

Also, how were the slow knuckle pushups on hardwood floor?

 

[ThufirHawat]

Your friend Russky the researcher may enjoy the task.

https://www.russianmartialart.com/schoollocator.php

List of certified systema schools and instructors.

Huh, there is after all a school near where I live!

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

I'm probably gonna get ribbed for this, but I have actually trained with Vladimir Vasiliev. I will say he knows body mechanics better than most PTs and Chiropractors. As for Systema, it has some great stuff in there that people love to just throw out as nonsense. Most of the fundamentals do work. The issue I have with it, is that by itself it is an incomplete art. It works great in set scenarios, especially against the untrained. The knife work is fantastic. Overall, I would say it is great if you want to improve your striking or grappling if you go in with an open mind. But, yes, there will be times where you will think in your head, no way I'm ever trying that in a damn fight.

Oh I will also add, yes I have trained other styles, my original school trained Combat Sambo and Systema. I have trained at a few other MMA schools and fought a couple times in MMA. I still occasionally train boxing, Muay Thai, and BJJ since those schools seem to be the easiest to find. (and I like them)

 

[TheMaster]

Huh, there is after all a school near where I live!

Then be open minded and participate in a few sessions. Take a few barefist medium (or heavier if you want) hits from the instructor. Study the body mechanics. Add it to your game. I dont know what your training background is but use it to enhance what you do. If its not for you then so be it. But at least explore a bit before forming an opinion.
The slowmotion practice which is used also in internal CMA, is to study and feel the mechanics. In real life you obviously do it full speed and power.

It would be good to hear your feedback once you experienced it for at least a few sessions rather than most who simply troll from watching videos.

 

[ThufirHawat]

Then be open minded and participate in a few sessions. Take a few barefist medium (or heavier if you want) hits from the instructor. Study the body mechanics. Add it to your game. I dont know what your training background is but use it to enhance what you do. If its not for you then so be it. But at least explore a bit before forming an opinion.
The slowmotion practice which is used also in internal CMA, is to study and feel the mechanics. In real life you obviously do it full speed and power.

It would be good to hear your feedback once you experienced it for at least a few sessions rather than most who simply troll from watching videos.

I'm considering doing exactly this. Don't worry, I've been training for a while and know that being prejudiced isn't really helping me.
Whether I'd be able to train with them, however, depends on a host of factors.

 

[Dexter]

So looks like for u it must be all some grand international conspiracy involving hundreds of people across nations - please stay off the weed.

It's not conspiracy - it's marketing, silly. Advertising is our everything.

please stay off the weed.

Thank you for taking care of my health, but I do not smoke - weed and other charms of life can only be afforded by people from the Systema and their slime burglars, robbing naive inhabitants.

your brainwashed delusional ass cant even register with your own eyes or hear with your ears. How hard is this to get into your brain?

Oh, what a butthurt! Bad sales this month, no bonuses from Systema managers?

Also shame on you for trashing on Oleg, one of Russia's finest warriors and the guy who put sambo on the map in the US.
He is a legend.

Sadly, he WAS a legend. Now he's just a foul-mouthed ever drunk trashtalker.

 

[Regal Boy]

The human body is the human body. Ultimately, the set of all movements that the human body can do is finite, and the set of all possibilities of what a 1v1 no weapons fight between two men is finite.

A rose by any other name smells as sweet. it doesn't matter what you call a jab. In the end, it's still a jab. It's a fucking jab, or hook, or double leg. They're all the same fucking thing regardless of what you call it.

Whenever we have two guys actually start to fight for real with no weapons in a 1v1 fight, it turns into MMA. It looks exactly like what MMA is like. I don't give a shit what you call it, it's the same damn thing. Just learn to fight MMA and you are a good fighter. Whatever individual set of names or system you use to do that is irrelevant.

 

[Russky]

Also, how were the slow knuckle pushups on hardwood floor?

You have very short memory. I told you that we did such pushups at our Judo club in Russia. On a hardwood floor, yes. I am not fat, to me there is not much difference between normal pushups and knuckle pushups. Lose some weight, it may help.

How many Systema schools are there in Russia? Just one with website in English. Is that not strange?
https://www.russianmartialart.com/schoollocator.php
Systema is McDojo to profit on naive foreigners that does not really exist in Russia.

BTW, I can endorse your Systema for just $50 on this thread.

 

[kenji goh]

Even if Oleg himself comes in this thread and admits that he is promoting this systema nonsense for money,
TheMaster will still believe that in some mountain peak on Caucasus there is a systema master who could beat the whole
UFC roster in the same night if he wanted, but he stays hidden because he has too much blood on his hands.

 

[Dexter]

BTW, I can endorse your Systema for just $50 on this thread.

Greedy traitor! How dare you! To sell Mother-Russia for half-hundred bucks!

systema master who could beat the whole
UFC roster in the same night if he wanted, but he stays hidden because he has too much blood in on his hands.

He can't - KGB, FSB and GRU are after his head because he sold russian top secret hand to hand combat style to the Western world.
The only problem with this style is that in Russia no one knows anything about it. But this is not surprising - because witnesses were removed by killers from SMERSH.

 

[TheMaster]

Even if Oleg himself comes in this thread and admits that he is promoting this systema nonsense for money,
TheMaster will still believe that in some mountain peak on Caucasus there is a systema master who could beat the whole
UFC roster in the same night if he wanted, but he stays hidden because he has too much blood on his hands.

You are comedy gold.

In fact no such claim has ever been made from the beginning, another astonishimg failure to register in brain - we have said systema principles can add to, not replace other arts or mma training.

It seems even if this is repeated hundreds of times, you will still be creatimg an imaginary narrative of systema vs ---

How many Systema schools are there in Russia? Just one with website in English. Is that not strange?
https://www.russianmartialart.com/schoollocator.php

If people like u are predominant, no.
I mean you even ignored Rigan Machado's advice to train systema although u do BJJ. I guess Rigan is also for you one of these naive foreigners as well as mentioned many Judo bb's and kickboxing champions.

Russia has two modern martial arts traditions, both can be traced to Soviet studies of asian martial arts.

Sambo - Japanese Judo and wrestling, brought together by Spiridinov and Oschepekov

Systema - evolution from Chinese internal arts and fencing, and offshoot of Spiridinov's work.

 

[Russky]

FFY

Systema - evolution from Chinese internal arts and fencing, and offshoot of Spiridinov's work invented by Ryabko and Vasiliev.

You should give full credit these two gurus.

 

[JKD sanda]

It is known the Soviets have been close to Peoples republic of China for a long time, you dont think they could easily have seen or had exposure to traditional tai chi masters in all that time? I think even at least they may have seem some tai chi pushing hands, got the principle of contact flow sensitivity and the developed systema off this and other influences .


The Soviet Union and the PRC. Were like warm Allies at best , neither trusted each other. The PRC believed they should have more influence over eastern communist countries than the Soviets . I’m sure systema does have internal China art in it . But I doubt China played apart . China banned MA for decades

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

Historically speaking, the Soviet Union and the PRC were only allied out of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle. Each believed that they had the One True Communism and that the other nation was doing it wrong which meant that their relations were frosty.

 

[TheMaster]

FFY

You should give full credit these two gurus.

So if as you claim, Ryabko and Vasiliev primarily were creative influence for systema themselves (ridiculous, as it would mean according to you that Vasiliev got somehow to an elite level in just a few years of studying some sambo and some tai chi tapes to the extent of convincing a UFC and Sambo world champion that he is legit and showing masterful motion and body mechanics and knife work), what exactly did you learn on 'Russian internet' about what you think is the origin of their skills that you can kindly enlighten us about?