Economy Study: Middle Class Is Over

[Oblivian]

Stopping you at where you live
That’s a crap answer
Move
I liked California too but it was too expensive so I went back to Kentucky
It’s a one step solution

Well yes and no. Someone in California making $60k may not make the same elsewhere. The point is that you can't make a generic statement like "$60k is enough to get a family of three by". Lots of people in the USA live in an area where $60k isn't enough.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I don't know why some people struggle so hard with the concept that wages aren't keeping up with inflation. And the employment stats are lies. Because they count all these jobs that don't pay people shit, or under employ people.

Wages are adjusted for inflation when they are studied, and if people were taking lower-paying jobs, it would cause average and median wages to fall, which hasn't been happening (very slight decline in the most recently reported period, though). The issue isn't really falling wages. One problem is actually that we all pay a portion of the salary of a lot of other people so if you have low relative wages, you're going to have problems paying for some important things. That's a big part of the problem with healthcare and with education (and childcare). And then restrictive zoning is choking off growth in the housing supply in a lot of economically booming cities. And then in a general sense, there's this:

A bigger share of the economy is going to people who own things and a smaller share is going to workers.

 

[cincymma79]

Well yes and no. Someone in California making $60k may not make the same elsewhere. The point is that you can't make a generic statement like "$60k is enough to get a family of three by". Lots of people in the USA live in an area where $60k isn't enough.

Stop fucking then
If you handle pulling out at a minimum, stop fucking

I can feed my family of 12 on minimum wage!
No fucking shit

Replace had a kid with bought a Mercedes. Same argument.

I’ll grant you one kid. You messed up. 3? Fuck right off.

 

[luckyshot]

Well yes and no. Someone in California making $60k may not make the same elsewhere. The point is that you can't make a generic statement like "$60k is enough to get a family of three by". Lots of people in the USA live in an area where $60k isn't enough.

Which is why, I think, a study like this looks at the number of people who actually struggle to pay for healthcare, food and housing rather than at number such as the "poverty line," which we all know is fairly arbitrary.

 

[cincymma79]

Pope Francis: Health care is part of the Church’s mission
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/12/11/pope-francis-health-care-part-churchs-mission/
Health care is a right, not a privilege, pope says
http://www.catholicnews.com/service...care-is-a-right-not-a-privilege-pope-says.cfm
Pope Calls for Guaranteed Health Care
https://www.americamagazine.org/content/all-things/pope-calls-guaranteed-health-care

I think the Pope knows what's in the Bible.

It does say something like suffer the children come into them

Maybe he misinterpreted that a little

 

[superpunch]

Perhaps most shocking, one in four American adults experienced food insecurity at some point in 2017.

Yet the average man is 5'9" 190 lbs.

I know how my grandparents lived in the 1950s from their photographs and how they describe their lives. They had "healthcare" if healthcare was just a guy that said they were sick and to eat chicken noodle soup because that's all "healthcare" was back then. They had "education" if education was just a one room schoolhouse with one teacher teaching all ages. They had "food" if food was homecooked food like ham and bean soup everyday, which is still cheap. They had "reliable housing" if a house was a shack in the country that would be illegal to build in 2018. They head easy access to "healthcare", "food", and "housing", and so they were statistically "above the poverty line" and "middle class". Yet, if you go deeper than the statistics, I know how they really lived and I know that everyone, even the absolute poorest people, is better off today.

 

[cincymma79]

I will agree child care is goddamned outrageous and we should adjust single parent assistance for this. 800 a month is crushing if you don’t make as much as me

 

[luckyshot]

It does say something like suffer the children come into them

Maybe he misinterpreted that a little

Those priests should not have molested those kids. That was a wrong thing to do.

 

[Oblivian]

Stop fucking then
If you handle pulling out at a minimum, stop fucking

I can feed my family of 12 on minimum wage!
No fucking shit

Replace had a kid with bought a Mercedes. Same argument.

I’ll grant you one kid. You messed up. 3? Fuck right off.

WTF are you even ranting about? You are the one that made the following statement. Try to stay on track....

60000 is enough to raise 3 kids. I know multiple people doing it.

My point is that you can't make a generic statement like that when cost of living varies greatly throughout the US.

 

[franklinstower]

Yet the average man is 5'9" 190 lbs.

I know how my grandparents lived in the 1940s from their photographs and how they describe their lives. They had "healthcare" if healthcare was just a guy that said they were sick and to eat chicken noodle soup because that's all "healthcare" was back then. They had "education" if education was just a one room schoolhouse with one teacher teaching all ages. They had "food" if food was homecooked food like ham and bean soup everyday, which is still cheap. They had "reliable housing" if a house was a shack in the country that would be illegal to build in 2018. They head easy access to "healthcare", "food", and "housing", and so they were statistically "above the poverty line" and "middle class". Yet, if you go deeper than the statistics, I know how they really lived and I know that everyone, even the absolute poorest people, is better off today.

The race to the bottom. Also you forgot to mention how much better off the rich are today than back then..... Hmmm.

 

[superpunch]

nm

 

[NoDak]

*Unless you work, in which case you automatically make too much for food stamps, housing benefits, or welfare. Unless you pop out kids like a moron.

Not entirely Mike, and although every state participates in Medicaid it does vary from state-to-state where the extent of services available and financial cutoffs are concerned. There are around 73 million Americans currently covered.

 

[franklinstower]

nm

Are you making a coherent argument or just trying to draw me into some kind of loaded bullshit?

 

[Black Helicopters]

Healthcare is a complicated subject but when talking about housing, a lot of that has to do with government regulation restricting building homes and the fact that building homes hasn’t advanced much. California is the prime example of this since they’re the biggest state and the most notable when it comes to restricting the building of new homes

It’s not really “the system” if the system means capitalism. You can find affordable housing in places that are economically booming and have tons of people moving in like in Texas.

I’m not saying to destroy all wildlife for homes and in certain cases I think their should be regulation such as preserving the Everglades but then again you have to acknowledge that places like Miami have the highest percentage of their checks going into paying for housing in the nation.

 

[cincymma79]

WTF are you even ranting about? You are the one that made the following statement. Try to stay on track....



My point is that you can't make a generic statement like that when cost of living varies greatly throughout the US.

If it isn’t enough where you live
Stop fucking

 

[superpunch]

Are you making a coherent argument or just trying to draw me into some kind of loaded bullshit?

I can't prove it but I don't think the stats comparing the 1970s to today are the same thing.

Here's how I see it:

Healthcare in 1970 was a primary care doctor and a can of chicken noodle soup. That doesn't qualify for 2018's definition of healthcare which is access to high tech treatments and specialists for everyone. So, healthcare affordability appears to be better back then.

Food in 1970 was home cooked ham and pea soup every day of the year. Food in 2018 is being able to feed your family prepared food.

Housing in 1970 was in units that are illegal to build today. Zoning laws, construction standards, it's all different. If you allowed anyone to build a shack or high rise of any size out of anything, anywhere -- lower quality, 1900s housing -- housing prices would go down.

I just know that I've talked to older Americans in my family, seen how people actually lived back then. There's no way that everyone doesn't have a higher quality of life across the board.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Pope Francis: Health care is part of the Church’s mission
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/12/11/pope-francis-health-care-part-churchs-mission/
Health care is a right, not a privilege, pope says
http://www.catholicnews.com/service...care-is-a-right-not-a-privilege-pope-says.cfm
Pope Calls for Guaranteed Health Care
https://www.americamagazine.org/content/all-things/pope-calls-guaranteed-health-care

I think the Pope knows what's in the Bible.

Pope directly accused in cover ups of abuse scandals

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/oth...sed-in-cover-ups-of-abuse-scandals/vi-BBMwrTO

Catholic Priests Abused 1,000 Children in Pennsylvania, Report Says

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-church-sex-abuse-pennsylvania.html

Well I'm glad you think the Pope is some kind of authority to be respected but I think he's a child sacrificing satanist who is leading the biggest pagan religion in the world. He also preaches straight from the mouth of a serpent.

 

[franklinstower]

I can't prove it but I don't think the stats comparing the 1970s to today are the same thing.



Here's how I see it:

Healthcare in 1970 was a primary care doctor and a can of chicken noodle soup. That doesn't qualify for 2018's definition of healthcare which is access to high tech treatments and specialists for everyone. So, healthcare affordability appears to be better back then.

Food in 1970 was home cooked ham and pea soup every day of the year. Food in 2018 is being able to feed your family prepared food.

Housing in 1970 was in units that are illegal to build today. Zoning laws, construction standards, it's all different. If you allowed anyone to build a shack or high rise of any size out of anything, anywhere -- lower quality, 1900s housing -- housing prices would go down.

I just know that I've talked to older Americans in my family, seen how people actually lived back then. There's no way that everyone doesn't have a higher quality of life across the board.

That could be argued a lot of ways man but I dont think it is the point honestly. The point is that technology ought to be freeing everyone, scientific advancement ought to be raising everyone up and it is not.

It comes downs to what you want in this world. I want to live in a world where everyone has a certain basic level of dignity. A dignity I already enjoy. I think we can and should create a world where everyone has enough and can live in dignity.

The health care received back in the day is what was available. The healthcare received today ought to also be what is available.

The human experiment can progress in various ways. Education, nutrition, health care and a system that allows for the survival instinct to be largely satisfied can and will lead to a higher quality human race and happiness. I am all for this.

 

[Oblivian]

If it isn’t enough where you live
Stop fucking

Maybe people would if others didn't say things like "60000 is enough to raise 3 kids. I know multiple people doing it".

 

[Shoemaker]

Nope. It will always happen. You go to school and work, it happens. You don’t go to school and get a low paying job, it happens. You get a good job but live outside your means, it happens

If you guys care so much then start helping anyone you know that is going through this

They could be already. You’re just making an assumption in a futile attempt to end the discussion.