Students Suspended Indefinitely For Confederate Flag

[TripLikeIDo]

Just some good ol' boys never meaning no harm...

 

[Halge]

So you're agreeing that the state right they sought to protect above all others was slavery. Great, we're all in agreement then.

If you feel comfortable reading what you want to read into it, then yes.

 

[ncordless]

Not today it isn't. Today the confederate flag is about freedom.

Says who? Your freedom to keep people as chattel maybe. Your freedom to become a traitor to your country perhaps.

 

[SammyPops]

They did cite their right to the slave system as a major reason for their cessation, if that's what you mean*. Not sure about the murdering or raping or working to death though. Those were explicitly forbidden even in the deep south**.

But above all the war was about protecting their rights as states. There is a reason they called their new government "confederacy", after all.

This is the connotation the confederate flag has for most people flying it today. But some people want it to mean something else.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_codes

**http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

so what other rights did the south go to war to protect, other than the rights to own slaves to protect their entire economic system?

 

[UpaLoompa]

Not today it isn't. Today the confederate flag is about freedom. Racist accusations is a strawman argument.

According to whom? The racists flying the flag?

 

[UpaLoompa]

so what other rights did the south go to war to protect, other than the rights to own slaves to protect their entire economic system?

Uh, freedom, obviously.

 

[Halge]

so what other rights did the south go to war to protect, other than the rights to own slaves to protect their entire economic system?

They protected their right not to have any policies, including slavery, dictated by central government. How is this so difficult to understand?

 

[Scrody]

1. why is mass murder worse than just working people to death and random murders? 2. How about murdering people for not wanting to be slaves?

1. Is that a serious question? Killing someone is always the worst thing you can do. The Nazis worked people to death and also committed mass murders on a scale not ever seen before.
2. The Nazis did that as well, but the whole Mass murder thing is what sets them apart. The Confederate states of America were fucking choir boys compared to the Axis.

 

[Halge]

According to whom? The racists flying the flag?

Now you're just being pathetic.
If a man says he brandishes the confederate flag because he believes it represents liberty, what kind of bullshit argumentative tactic is it to continuously, and falsely, claim he's doing it to promote slavery? This is like strawman 101. Show the man some respect.

 

[ncordless]

They protected their right not to have any policies, including slavery, dictated by central government. How is this so difficult to understand?

What other policies were the concerned about besides slavery? What moves was the federal government making to effect an anti-slavery policy when they committed treason against the Constitution? How is a state not its own central government?

 

[SammyPops]

Uh, freedom, obviously.

well, yeah clearly

 

[ncordless]

Now you're just being pathetic.
If a man says he brandishes the confederate flag because he believes it represents liberty, what kind of bullshit argumentative tactic is it to continuously, and falsely, claim he's doing it to promote slavery? This is like strawman 101. Show the man some respect.

If I wave around a Nazi flag and tell everyone I am doing so because I believe it represents liberty, does that mean everyone who is offended by a Nazi flag being waved around should show me some respect and defer to my interpretation, or does it mean that I should get a clue about what the flag means?

 

[TheBox]

They protected their right not to have any policies, including slavery, dictated by central government. How is this so difficult to understand?

It's not hard to understand; it's just wrong.

Their Constitution explicitly prevented Confederate states from banning slavery. So if Georgia decided 10 years down the road that it wanted slavery gone inside its borders, their central government would have said NOPE, you have to keep it going.

 

[ncordless]

Killing someone is always the worst thing you can do.

I disagree. There are many things someone could do to me that I would consider worse than death. One of them would be to separate me from my wife and child and sell me to someone else far away from them for the rest of my life.

 

[SammyPops]

They protected their right not to have any policies, including slavery, dictated by central government. How is this so difficult to understand?

seriously?

so your argument is that it did not matter what the policy was, but rather that the previously agreed upon central govt was forcing a policy on them?

If I understand this correctly, why did the south accept other policies forced upon them but decided this one specific policy was worth fighting awar over?

that's what is difficult for me to understand.

 

[Tekk]

According to whom? The racists flying the flag?

Its not racist, it's about states rights.
It's not racist, it's about heritage.
Its not racist, its about freedom.

Everybody loves freedom, Amirite?

 

[UpaLoompa]

Now you're just being pathetic.
If a man says he brandishes the confederate flag because he believes it represents liberty, what kind of bullshit argumentative tactic is it to continuously, and falsely, claim he's doing it to promote slavery? This is like strawman 101. Show the man some respect.

First, why would I show a person who displays a flag of traitors and slaves respect? Second, the southern states attempted to secede primarily because of slavery. The battle flag is synonymous with fighting for slavery in the US. Pretending otherwise is trying to seek cover for racism.

 

[SammyPops]

1. Is that a serious question? Killing someone is always the worst thing you can do. The Nazis worked people to death and also committed mass murders on a scale not ever seen before.
2. The Nazis did that as well, but the whole Mass murder thing is what sets them apart. The Confederate states of America were fucking choir boys compared to the Axis.

well, I guess if you believe mass murder is the worst, worse than killing lots of people in other ways, then ok you have the right to that opinion.

 

[Halge]

If I wave around a Nazi flag and tell everyone I am doing so because I believe it represents liberty, does that mean everyone who is offended by a Nazi flag being waved around should show me some respect and defer to my interpretation, or does it mean that I should get a clue about what the flag means?

The nazi flag is not the confederate flag.

And the meaning of the nazi flag is not set in stone. Like every symbol, its meaning is in the eyes of the beholder.
In the eyes of most beholders, the nazi flag represents, well, nazism. If someone was waving the nazi flag and saying that, for them, it represented liberty, I'd respect their opinion. But theirs would be a minority opinion.

The confederate flag however, has much wider connotations. Despite the wishes and ardent efforts of some people to make it just about slavery.

 

[Scrody]

I disagree. There are many things someone could do to me that I would consider worse than death. One of them would be to separate me from my wife and child and sell me to someone else far away from them for the rest of my life.

You're still alive.