StrongLifts 5x5: how realistic is the progression ?

[Saint Of The K]

Hi all,

I recently started the SL 5x5 routine, and am questioning the progression:
+ 5 lbs. per workout on squat, ie. +15 lbs./week, 780 lbs./year

Obviously not many (or rather nobody) will reach this load within a year, so my question is: what is a realistic progression curve for a beginner ?

Ex:
- BW=94 kg/207 lbs, bodyfat ~= 20% (guestimate)
- Started squats at around 60kg/130lbs.
- After 3 months: squat should be xxx kg/lbs.
- After 6 months: squat should be xxx kg/lbs.
etc.

Thanks !

 

[toonie]

No idea about what numbers you should expect, but the progression works. I'll let someone else explain the idea of noob gains and recovery and such.

I ran a similar program (Starting Strength) and took my squat from 165x5 x3 sets to 300x5 x3 sets in four months. That's 135lbs added to my work set over 16 weeks. Works out to be a bit more than 8lbs a week. By later weeks you probably won't be able to add 5lbs a session without failing.

Also went from 150lbs BW to 170lbs.

 

[under]

Tried starting with SL 5x5 for a while, the volume gets pretty tough fast. switched to an "easier" 3x5 starting strength and made steady progress.

maybe that's just me though, never able to get enough sleep and all

 

[matt0331]

Saint the way I understand noob gains goes like this, you have never lifted or lifted wrong. Once you start loading the bar your body adapts very quickly to the increased demands from it. Your question about how long you can proceed on the progrqm is right on. Once you fail with the work sets most of the programs will have you reset and work back up. If this does not work you can experiment with different progressions, reps, sets or switch to more of an intermediate program.

 

[Saint Of The K]

No idea about what numbers you should expect, but the progression works. I'll let someone else explain the idea of noob gains and recovery and such.

I ran a similar program (Starting Strength) and took my squat from 165x5 x3 sets to 300x5 x3 sets in four months. That's 135lbs added to my work set over 16 weeks. Works out to be a bit more than 8lbs a week. By later weeks you probably won't be able to add 5lbs a session without failing.

Also went from 150lbs BW to 170lbs.

Thanks for your feedback, indeed it seems to work for you. I'm not sure what is hindering my progress at this stage, bad form for sure, but possible lack of recovery/sleep also. I guess it's not helping either that I try to maintain the same BW. Will try to eat more in the coming weeks to see if progress is easier or what...

 

[SimonAdd]

Doesn't Stronglifts start with the bar and even suggest you move to 3x5 after a certain point?

 

[Saint Of The K]

^ I don't remember reading that, but it's possible. I thought I'd use this routine for a year or so, I didn't expect the +780lbs. gain of course, but I didn't think it was only for 6 months or so either.

Also, if I hit a wall, what would be the best approach to overcome it ? Put (let's say) 10lbs less and try to work on number of reps ? Something else ? I don't think I've read anything about "deload" on SL5x5.

 

[matt0331]

I would retry the weight again. If that does not work drop to 80-90%you of the failed weight and cut the increases in weight in half then build back up. If you failed on the fourth or fifth set maybe go to 3x5the and keep the same progression. If 5 reps is to much go to 3 reps maybe 5x3 and keep the same progressions. The whole idea is to keep linearly progressing as long as possible.

 

[toonie]

Thanks for your feedback, indeed it seems to work for you. I'm not sure what is hindering my progress at this stage, bad form for sure, but possible lack of recovery/sleep also. I guess it's not helping either that I try to maintain the same BW. Will try to eat more in the coming weeks to see if progress is easier or what...

What are your squat numbers right now? How is your progress with the bench and deadlift? You can certainly continue to make progress without gaining weight, it will just come a bit slower. Also, it's always a good idea to post form videos. I highly recommend you do that as soon as possible.

^ I don't remember reading that, but it's possible. I thought I'd use this routine for a year or so, I didn't expect the +780lbs. gain of course, but I didn't think it was only for 6 months or so either.

Also, if I hit a wall, what would be the best approach to overcome it ? Put (let's say) 10lbs less and try to work on number of reps ? Something else ? I don't think I've read anything about "deload" on SL5x5.

SL5x5 does recommend starting with the bar but you don't have to add only 5lbs per session at first. I think they say 10-15lbs is fine for the first few weeks.

I don't know how it works with SL5x5 but I assume it's similar enough to SS. If you are unable to hit the prescribed reps after three straight work-outs, drop 10% off your working weight, and continue from there. I.e if you can't hit 200 5x5 for three work-outs, drop down to 180 and continue from there.

Also, as previously mentioned, 5x5 volume can be pretty brutal after awhile. You can consider dropping to 3x5 (3 sets of 5) and continue progression from there.

But first of all, best thing you can do is to let us know where your numbers stand and how long you've been running SL5x5.

 

[moyy]

SL5x5 does recommend you start as 5x5, then move to 3x5, then finally 1x5. It also recommends, like SS, that you attempt a weight 3x before resetting 10%.

 

[Tosa]

You start with light weights. If you haven't lifted at all before, just the bar is fine, because it's still more than you've done in the past. Initially you're able to, and will make larger jumps in weight. Gradually the weight increases get smaller, eventually being something like 1lb each workout.

Once you've reached that point, stalled and reset a couple times, then it's time to move onto something else. A fairly naturally progression at that point would be Texas Method, or a Bill Starr routine.

Or at least that's how it's supposed to work.

 

[The Rev]

Mehdi said you should be able to get to 1.5 bw 5x5 without going to 3x5 (aka, deloading twice).
My first deload was @335 in week 16. I started at 150.

 

[Saint Of The K]

Thanks to all for you inputs. Re. my numbers and past/current situation, here is a bit of details.

194cm/6'4 - 94kg/207lbs - 36y.o. - Long limbs, narrow shoulders, small wrist - 18-20% BF (estimated)

Past experience: not much, some lifting here and there but nothing consistent/more than 3 months; Was overweight until 25, lost some weight but both muscle/fat; did a bit of MMA around 30, went down to 174lbs (felt very weak); not much activity for the last 5 years
Started in January on SL5x5, tried to stick to 3wo/week, but was not always possible (traveling for job, etc.).

Starting weights (all on 5x5): Squat: 45kg/99lbs; BP: 40kg/88lbs; DL: 60kg/132lbs; OHP: 25kg/55lbs

Current weights (all on 5x5): Squat: 92.5kg/204lbs (went up to 110kg/242lbs, but with bad form and lacking depth); BP: 65kg/143lbs; DL: 120kg/264lbs; OHP: 40kg/88lbs.

Currently struggling on:
- Squat: getting correct depth, squatting pain free (knee pain), correct form and feet placement
- BP: increasing numbers (slow progress)
- OHP: increasing numbers (slow progress)
- DL: OK, should work on form (a bit of rounded back on last 2 reps)

All in all I've made some progress, and the results are seen both in the mirror and under the bar, but progress has been a bit slow (at least slower than the SL5x5 template). This is due mainly to poor diet (ok during the week but too much on week ends), lack of rest (job), possibly trying to get stronger while maintaining same body weight, at least that's what I think. I need to track diet and training properly, might as well start a training log here...

 

[MAAddict**]

There really isn't anything magical about the program despite whatever bullshit Mehdi tries to peddle down your throat. You'd follow the same progression as you would on starting strength.

 

[Bngel]

SL5x5 does recommend you start as 5x5, then move to 3x5, then finally 1x5. It also recommends, like SS, that you attempt a weight 3x before resetting 10%.

If you dont get 1 sinlge rep with a weight. Do you still attempt 3x before reset? It doesnt make any sense.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

If you dont get 1 sinlge rep with a weight. Do you still attempt 3x before reset? It doesnt make any sense.

If you hit the required 25 or 15 reps the workout before required to progress in weight, then there are few reasons you should be unable to complete a single rep after a 5 or 10 pound increase in the weight used. Some of those reasons would be injury or severe fatigue, in which case you should not be attempting the lift anyway.

How does that not make sense to you?

 

[T800***]

if ur starting squats are.130lbs u need to change to a more basic and all round beginner program

 

[spicy(sfc)]

Im doing the Bill Starr 5x5 which is very similar. I used to lift a lot but had to take about 2 years off because of health reasons, spending months at a time in a hospital bed. I am very doughy now and am using it to get back to competition strength. I am 5'10 230 and 3 weeks in my bench has gone from 115 to 155 and squat from 95 to 155. The first time I did this my gains were just as fast.

 

[Saint Of The K]

OK thanks for the info, but would you say that 115 and 95 were your max, ie. you couldn't have done one more rep ? I feel people often don't go to max at first, and then their starting weights are actually lower than they could be.
In my case at least that was true, it's difficult to find the correct weight to perform 5 reps but not one more over 5 sets.

if ur starting squats are.130lbs u need to change to a more basic and all round beginner program

Not sure what you mean. SL5x5 IS a program for beginner, so...

 

[T800***]

OK thanks for the info, but would you say that 115 and 95 were your max, ie. you couldn't have done one more rep ? I feel people often don't go to max at first, and then their starting weights are actually lower than they could be.
In my case at least that was true, it's difficult to find the correct weight to perform 5 reps but not one more over 5 sets.



Not sure what you mean. SL5x5 IS a program for beginner, so...

imo u shouldnt be doin a 5x5 program if ur a beginner and if 130lbs is all u can squat then id say you need more time looking at form/rest/nutrition. just my 2 cents gl with ur work