Still doubt karate?

[shincheckin]

 

[Frode Falch]

I dont doubt karate. Most styles got something good to offer. But some styles you got to look extra hard to find a practitioner or gym that can show you the real deal from that style.

And when you got to look that long.. Is the style then a good style.

Hell. I am sure there are even some badass shotokan or wushu guys out there.

 

[shincheckin]

I dont doubt karate. Most styles got something good to offer. But some styles you got to look extra hard to find a practitioner or gym that can show you the real deal from that style.

And when you got to look that long.. Is the style then a good style.

Hell. I am sure there are even some badass shotokan or wushu guys out there.

had the same problem with MT for years. Its insane how much the sport has grown in the past 10 years indireclty through mma and also social media. Back in the day before youtube was invented, you couldnt just search up thais training online etc. so what took me years of searching to learn, now takes someone 5 minutes! lol

i always doubted karate, now i dont for sure. wish i would have done Kyokushin as a youngster or even as an adult. If i won the lottery a trip thailand for MT, and a trip to japan for KK.

 

[Guestx]

I'm not sure how much McDojoism there is in Kyokushin. Probably not much. It just doesn't seem like the kind of style that would lend itself to that sort of thing.

It's a shame that with other styles of karate you have to wade through so much shit to find the good schools. I feel like a lot of karate instructors don't even understand their own art. But when they do, they're actually pretty good.

This guy says he was involved with kickboxing and actually left that sport to study Shotokan. I'm sure he'd need to make some adjustments for MMA, but he seems like he's more than capable of handling himself in a self-defense situation.

 

[Hotora86]

I'm not sure how much McDojoism there is in Kyokushin. Probably not much. It just doesn't seem like the kind of style that would lend itself to that sort of thing.

It's a shame that with other styles of karate you have to wade through so much shit to find the good schools. I feel like a lot of karate instructors don't even understand their own art. But when they do, they're actually pretty good.

This guy says he was involved with kickboxing and actually left that sport to study Shotokan. I'm sure he'd need to make some adjustments for MMA, but he seems like he's more than capable of handling himself in a self-defense situation.

Thanks to Karate he married a hot Japanese chick.
That's a win for Karate in my books.

 

[Guestx]

Thanks to Karate he married a hot Japanese chick.
That's a win for Karate in my books.

It's a pretty cool video. I liked seeing some of his training methods where he's developing his speed, footwork and accuracy.

He's also a big, tall motherfucker. Probably be a long night for some random who fucks with him.

There are things about Shotokan that I don't feel like quite make the grade, but there's always been something about that style that fascinates me.

 

[Tayski]

I dont doubt karate. Most styles got something good to offer. But some styles you got to look extra hard to find a practitioner or gym that can show you the real deal from that style.

And when you got to look that long.. Is the style then a good style.

Hell. I am sure there are even some badass shotokan or wushu guys out there.

I'm not sure how much McDojoism there is in Kyokushin. Probably not much. It just doesn't seem like the kind of style that would lend itself to that sort of thing.

Every single Kyokushin dojo I've been to in Europe (I've been to 15+ different dojos in the UK, France, Sweden, etc.) were all legit in their own way, and some of them were actually very very hardcore. I've heard it's the same in Russia and Japan, the training is legit and hard.

There are not many Kyokushin mcdojos at all, maybe in the US if anything but even there I'm sure most dojos are legit.

 

[j123]

I'm not sure how much McDojoism there is in Kyokushin. Probably not much. It just doesn't seem like the kind of style that would lend itself to that sort of thing.

It's a shame that with other styles of karate you have to wade through so much shit to find the good schools. I feel like a lot of karate instructors don't even understand their own art. But when they do, they're actually pretty good.

This guy says he was involved with kickboxing and actually left that sport to study Shotokan. I'm sure he'd need to make some adjustments for MMA, but he seems like he's more than capable of handling himself in a self-defense situation.

Iirc KK has the highest drop out rate of all martial arts. I don't think its common to find a McDojo out of those.

 

[shinkyoku]

There are a few McDojo kyokushin places, but they tend to be independents (as in not connected to a international organization. -on the other hand, some of the most hardcore kyokushin dojos I ever seen was independents) who mix their kyokushin with other stuff (aikido or whatever) -and ofcourse there are places who claims to be kyokushin but on closer inspection is not. In The US there is a organization called AKKO, formed 97. It was notorious for low quality control of its member dojos in the early days. But they seem to have kicked out the worst joke dojos by now -possibly by enforcing the universal requirement for knockdown fighting in belt tests. Knockdown rules is not a good fit for McDojos.

 

[spacetime]

I never knew UFC 1 had a Kyokushin- champion but it did indeed!

Gerard Gordeau (8 time Dutch Kyokushin champ) got choked out in one minute and 44 seconds against Royce Gracie (who wasn't even near the best of the Gracies)

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Every single Kyokushin dojo I've been to in Europe (I've been to 15+ different dojos in the UK, France, Sweden, etc.) were all legit in their own way, and some of them were actually very very hardcore. I've heard it's the same in Russia and Japan, the training is legit and hard.

There are not many Kyokushin mcdojos at all, maybe in the US if anything but even there I'm sure most dojos are legit.

I think it helps that the average person doesn't look into styles of karate and just goes to a class or sends their kids to one. I'm willing to bet if the class is serious enough to know what kyokushin even is, then it's probably a good place to learn.

 

[Christian Woodward]

There are a few McDojo kyokushin places, but they tend to be independents (as in not connected to a international organization. -on the other hand, some of the most hardcore kyokushin dojos I ever seen was independents) who mix their kyokushin with other stuff (aikido or whatever) -and ofcourse there are places who claims to be kyokushin but on closer inspection is not. In The US there is a organization called AKKO, formed 97. It was notorious for low quality control of its member dojos in the early days. But they seem to have kicked out the worst joke dojos by now -possibly by enforcing the universal requirement for knockdown fighting in belt tests. Knockdown rules is not a good fit for McDojos.

My first post since I have lurked here for years. I take KK in America and my Sensei received his BB under Don Buck who started AKKO. After Don Buck past away his son took up the AKKO, and from what I have heard he add kenpo karate more or less to it.

From what I know of my time in Kyokushin which has been about 4 years, every test you do Knockdown format. White belt want your first stripe, you fight one person. In 4 year im only a 5th kyu due to being older and only getting to practice once a week. But my next test for a 2nd stripe I get to fight 8 people in a row with just a mouth piece at 1.5 min to 2 min intervals with 15 second break in between. Fun times.

As for training for adults we do 45 mins of conditioning via your gambit of push ups / burpees etc, and body conditioning. Last 45 mins of class is usually hard sparring fighting everyone in class white belts through black, 2 min fight catch your breath for 15 to 20 seconds rinse repeat. Usually with mma gloves and sometimes with head shots just to keep things live.

As for the average person, not many come into the dojo. So many new people I see, and out of 10 maybe 1 or 2 stays. I sometimes have to take time off for work for 6 months but always come back, and am welcomed back with some good sparring. OSU

 

[spacetime]

I know of regular working class men you would never expect take martial arts, can't kick for shit... that do Kyokushin. Dudes who would get beat up by bums. Kyokushin doesn't only include "alpha males"

 

[Guestx]

Hell. I am sure there are even some badass shotokan or wushu guys out there.

A while back I trained briefly at a Shotokan dojo. Most of the instructors were older guys who had been doing the shit for 40 fucking years and were way past their prime, but there was this one instructor who was early 30s and a competition specialist.

That guy was no joke. Tall and long, really fast, and could hit hard as hell.

I would not want to be the drunk at the bar who provoked an altercation with him.

 

[Azam]

Kyokushin is definitely a respectable style of Karate. I think there are a lot less mcdojo's because it's a full contact style that's largely built around knockdown karate sparring & competition. So any mcdojo-ism literally gets eaten away if it doesn't work in sparring or competition (mcdojo's don't really survive or thrive in that environment). But it's not perfect - it also has it's issues just like any other style.

Most other styles of Karate aren't necessarily as sports/competition focused the way that Kyokushin is - so there's room for mcdojo-ism to creep in especially if the instructor isn't worth his/her salt. But I will add that you have excellent & poor instructors in every style - even one's that don't really have as much mcdojo-ism. Technical instructors that know the ins & outs of their craft are a dime in a dozen regardless of the art you practice (like for example imo Rick Hotton).


In regards to the video - Kyokushin conditioning is pretty damn insane. Out of all the styles I've done kyokushin conditioning is second to none. But I personally think that in regards to conditioning their comes a point of diminishing returns or when it becomes counter-productive. The amount of conditioning in Kyokushin is necessary for kyokushin practitioners because of the training/competition environment like the instructor says in the video.

Outside of Kyokushin - that amount of conditioning I honestly feel isn't necessary. In fact it's probably counter-productive. After all - all it takes is a well placed punch to the chin and the lights go out - no matter how much you've strengthened your body. Something as simple as solid jabs to your face can negate all that conditioning. I feel like MT, kickboxing & boxing have got the right mix of conditioning in training.

It's for that reason that I don't use conditioning as a qualifier for how legit a style is. I think fundamentals & sparring are better indicators for how legit a style is. Conditioning can be taught. Fundamentals if taught wrong, become habits and habits are incredibly difficult to un-teach.

 

[shincheckin]

My first post since I have lurked here for years. I take KK in America and my Sensei received his BB under Don Buck who started AKKO. After Don Buck past away his son took up the AKKO, and from what I have heard he add kenpo karate more or less to it.

From what I know of my time in Kyokushin which has been about 4 years, every test you do Knockdown format. White belt want your first stripe, you fight one person. In 4 year im only a 5th kyu due to being older and only getting to practice once a week. But my next test for a 2nd stripe I get to fight 8 people in a row with just a mouth piece at 1.5 min to 2 min intervals with 15 second break in between. Fun times.

As for training for adults we do 45 mins of conditioning via your gambit of push ups / burpees etc, and body conditioning. Last 45 mins of class is usually hard sparring fighting everyone in class white belts through black, 2 min fight catch your breath for 15 to 20 seconds rinse repeat. Usually with mma gloves and sometimes with head shots just to keep things live.

As for the average person, not many come into the dojo. So many new people I see, and out of 10 maybe 1 or 2 stays. I sometimes have to take time off for work for 6 months but always come back, and am welcomed back with some good sparring. OSU

thats basically the same thing/problem that has happened with everything, Karate and Muay Thai alike. Hence the watering down of Muay Thai in america. Everyone wants to be a "beast" until its time to do what beasts do. Theres not enough money in it to keep the gym doors. open.

 

[shincheckin]

Kyokushin is definitely a respectable style of Karate. I think there are a lot less mcdojo's because it's a full contact style that's largely built around knockdown karate sparring & competition. So any mcdojo-ism literally gets eaten away if it doesn't work in sparring or competition (mcdojo's don't really survive or thrive in that environment). But it's not perfect - it also has it's issues just like any other style.

Most other styles of Karate aren't necessarily as sports/competition focused the way that Kyokushin is - so there's room for mcdojo-ism to creep in especially if the instructor isn't worth his/her salt. But I will add that you have excellent & poor instructors in every style - even one's that don't really have as much mcdojo-ism. Technical instructors that know the ins & outs of their craft are a dime in a dozen regardless of the art you practice (like for example imo Rick Hotton).


In regards to the video - Kyokushin conditioning is pretty damn insane. Out of all the styles I've done kyokushin conditioning is second to none. But I personally think that in regards to conditioning their comes a point of diminishing returns or when it becomes counter-productive. The amount of conditioning in Kyokushin is necessary for kyokushin practitioners because of the training/competition environment like the instructor says in the video.

Outside of Kyokushin - that amount of conditioning I honestly feel isn't necessary. In fact it's probably counter-productive. After all - all it takes is a well placed punch to the chin and the lights go out - no matter how much you've strengthened your body. Something as simple as solid jabs to your face can negate all that conditioning. I feel like MT, kickboxing & boxing have got the right mix of conditioning in training.

It's for that reason that I don't use conditioning as a qualifier for how legit a style is. I think fundamentals & sparring are better indicators for how legit a style is. Conditioning can be taught. Fundamentals if taught wrong, become habits and habits are incredibly difficult to un-teach.

well said.

 

[Azam]

I dont doubt karate. Most styles got something good to offer. But some styles you got to look extra hard to find a practitioner or gym that can show you the real deal from that style.

And when you got to look that long.. Is the style then a good style.

Hell. I am sure there are even some badass shotokan or wushu guys out there.

I agree I've met badasses from nearly every style - which makes me think that styles aren't necessarily the issue but the person instructing you.

The more mainstream a style is - the more you will encounter charlatans. I think in Karate's case this is what it suffers from - more so in the US than here in Europe.

I think a good style depends on your own objectives/goals. If it meets your criteria then it's a good style for you. If it doesn't then it's a bad style for you.

Sometimes it can take a long time to find a good private tutor to teach you Maths well for example (I went through many as a kid lol). It doesn't really say anything other than there are some shitty tutors out there teaching maths.

 

[shincheckin]

I agree I've met badasses from nearly every style - which makes me think that styles aren't necessarily the issue but the person instructing you.

The more mainstream a style is - the more you will encounter charlatans. I think in Karate's case this is what it suffers from - more so in the US than here in Europe.

I think a good style depends on your own objectives/goals. If it meets your criteria then it's a good style for you. If it doesn't then it's a bad style for you.

Sometimes it can take a long time to find a good private tutor to teach you Maths well for example (I went through many as a kid lol). It doesn't really say anything other than there are some shitty tutors out there teaching maths.

the US tends to water down everything. Muay Thai included. Or how about these soccer mom TKD schools now saying they are MMA gyms? lol.

 

[Paradigm]

I dont doubt karate. Most styles got something good to offer. But some styles you got to look extra hard to find a practitioner or gym that can show you the real deal from that style.

And when you got to look that long.. Is the style then a good style.

Hell. I am sure there are even some badass shotokan or wushu guys out there.

I never knew UFC 1 had a Kyokushin- champion but it did indeed!

Gerard Gordeau (8 time Dutch Kyokushin champ) got choked out in one minute and 44 seconds against Royce Gracie (who wasn't even near the best of the Gracies)