Still doubt karate?

Mercer KO'd him. Yea...that's one example. Couture never threw a punch while standing. There's also Royce Gracie destroying all of his opponents with BJJ in the early days before people really had any knowledge of mma. Royce basically kicked and threw weak open hand strikes. Gene Lebell (judo and wasn't allowed to kick) and defeated a boxer back in the day, Gary Turner (mma) beat Julius Francis (strict boxer), Ricardo Mayorga (strict boxer) who lost all of his mma fights.

So about the mercer fight. Even if boxers win 1 out of 5 times, that's only 20%. I'm guessing it's between 5-20% wins for boxing if fighting a grappler. He caught Sylvia...no excuses plain and simple.

There's also plenty of footage from brazil in the 80's and 90's of bjj guys fighting all types of strikers. .....but all were ended from relative easy takedowns to finishing on the ground.





Yeah you definitely don't want to engage with this tool haha, we're actually collectively blanking him as a forum in an effort to get him to leave because the mods won't ban him.
 
Yeah you definitely don't want to engage with this tool haha, we're actually collectively blanking him as a forum in an effort to get him to leave because the mods won't ban him.
Yea I think I've said all I'm going to say now...there's no reasoning with this guy lol
 
Well yea there has to be competent bjj players and judokas (I would say brown belt up). Are we adjusting for weight too? So in your scenario, we take a 265lb foreman vs a 265 lb brown belt at a random dojo, I think the judo player will have a better chance than a 265lb karate black belt at a random dojo vs 265lb Teddy Riner.

Exactly. So the fact that elite BJJ guys beat lesser skilled strikers doesn't prove anything. I did not dispute your Karate claim, it was your claim about striking in general. Striking in general includes far more than Karate.
 
I bet on any dutch kickboxer, amateur, same time in training and same weight, against any judo (only) black belt on earth and most BJJ black belts I know.
Most BJJ guys don't train for the street nowadays, let alone judo.

I'd bet on any boxer or karate guy with six months of training against a judo or BJJ guy with two years of training. It depends on what they train for but I think the striking guy has the edge.

You just can't compare a Gracie or a fighter with the regular goofy karate guy.

In other hand if you compare techniques, karate strikes work as good as clinching and groundfighting. It's all part of fighting and it has to be learned.
But if you say karate is not practical per se, also drop off your judogi and go to a wrestling gym.
 
I bet on any dutch kickboxer, amateur, same time in training and same weight, against any judo (only) black belt on earth and most BJJ black belts I know.
Most BJJ guys don't train for the street nowadays, let alone judo.

I'd bet on any boxer or karate guy with six months of training against a judo or BJJ guy with two years of training. It depends on what they train for but I think the striking guy has the edge.

You just can't compare a Gracie or a fighter with the regular goofy karate guy.

In other hand if you compare techniques, karate strikes work as good as clinching and groundfighting. It's all part of fighting and it has to be learned.
But if you say karate is not practical per se, also drop off your judogi and go to a wrestling gym.
Bro you don't even have 1 like....nobody is going to take you seriously. C'mon man. I'd love to see a guy that's back mounted kick his opponent.....
 
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Exactly. So the fact that elite BJJ guys beat lesser skilled strikers doesn't prove anything. I did not dispute your Karate claim, it was your claim about striking in general. Striking in general includes far more than Karate.
Nah you're trying to put words in my mouth. I'm telling you two guys with equal years of training and the ground specialists wins majority of the time. They standup guys has a small chance. It's funny when I put videos out there suddenly your excuse is they are scrubs.....
 
I bet on any dutch kickboxer, amateur, same time in training and same weight, against any judo (only) black belt on earth and most BJJ black belts I know.
Most BJJ guys don't train for the street nowadays, let alone judo.

I'd bet on any boxer or karate guy with six months of training against a judo or BJJ guy with two years of training. It depends on what they train for but I think the striking guy has the edge.

You just can't compare a Gracie or a fighter with the regular goofy karate guy.

In other hand if you compare techniques, karate strikes work as good as clinching and groundfighting. It's all part of fighting and it has to be learned.
But if you say karate is not practical per se, also drop off your judogi and go to a wrestling gym.

i would have to disagree with you. MT is my thing and what i love and what i do. Im not into bjj, or wrestling, or boxing, or MMA, or any other martial arts really, except for KK which is really similar to MT.......anyways when we are talking no rules fighting, grappling is superior to striking. Im friends with several BJJ black belts and while I would have no problem beating them in any form of striking. If you put us into an MMA or no rules fight, they would make short work of me. For no rules/self defense, if you can only learn one thing martial art, BJJ is it. I use this analogy quite a bit but humans and chimps DNA is 99% the same, high level BJJ guys are like straight gorillas. Its insane how dangerous they are. They will literally grab ahold of you and rip your arm off. When I retire from fighting MT i plan to take up BJJ to get to that next level of human fighting. A fat BJJ dude will make short work of me. all these things I have mentioned is why you see ground fighting so dominant in MMA and why many MMA matches can essentially be turned into BJJ matches. Grappling is more natural for the human animal than striking. Striking has gotten to the level that it is due to our intelligence. Watch gorillas or chimps fight, its basically grappling, some ground and pound, and also biting. I have recently began working in a prison and apparently bad injuries from biting in fights is a regular thing. When these dudes fight, they are fighting to kill, no rules, they know where to stab to hit vital organs, such as the femoral artery in the thigh, etc. I have only been there 3 weeks and someone already got their ear bitten off in a fight (i missed it). Biting is another thing I think is very underrated by many people in pure human animal fighting. In my mind there is a big difference between the human animal, and the modern day domesticated man.
 
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Holland has never really been a dominant nation in kyokushin. They had some good fighters, but they were and are far from what they at times have been in kickboxing.

Their dominance in Kickboxing hasn't just been "at times" though. Overall they've been dominating kickboxing since about the 80's up until today.
 
Doubting Karate?

LOL!

Spent almost a decade with a Japanese trained Okinawan Go Ju San Dan savage who joined our Judo school a few years after transitioning from TKD/Kickboxing.

Elbows, hands and fingers.

Knees, feet and toes.

trained like this..



America's Karate is watered down BS unless you happen to find a rare jem....

And if you do treat it like the gift that it is!
 
i would have to disagree with you. MT is my thing and what i love and what i do. Im not into bjj, or wrestling, or boxing, or MMA, or any other martial arts really, except for KK which is really similar to MT.......anyways when we are talking no rules fighting, grappling is superior to striking. Im friends with several BJJ black belts and while I would have no problem beating them in any form of striking. If you put us into an MMA or no rules fight, they would make short work of me. For no rules/self defense, if you can only learn one thing martial art, BJJ is it. I use this analogy quite a bit but humans and chimps DNA is 99% the same, high level BJJ guys are like straight gorillas. Its insane how dangerous they are. They will literally grab ahold of you and rip your arm off. When I retire from fighting MT i plan to take up BJJ to get to that next level of human fighting. A fat BJJ dude will make short work of me. all these things I have mentioned is why you see ground fighting so dominant in MMA and why many MMA matches can essentially be turned into BJJ matches. Grappling is more natural for the human animal than striking. Striking has gotten to the level that it is due to our intelligence. Watch gorillas or chimps fight, its basically grappling, some ground and pound, and also biting. I have recently began working in a prison and apparently bad injuries from biting in fights is a regular thing. When these dudes fight, they are fighting to kill, no rules, they know where to stab to hit vital organs, such as the femoral artery in the thigh, etc. I have only been there 3 weeks and someone already got their ear bitten off in a fight (i missed it). Biting is another thing I think is very underrated by many people in pure human animal fighting. In my mind there is a big difference between the human animal, and the modern day domesticated man.

Ill second shin here. I've done martial arts since I was 7 so about 30 years on and off. I prefer striking doing boxing / mauy thai and KK. Unlike most sherbros I don't have a 600-0 record ive been in fights where I have won easily and I have also had my ass kicked ( big learning moments). A majority of people whom fight that do not have a striking background will latch on to you and try to pull you to the ground and slam your head into pavement. I wrestled in high school and some submission wrestling to avoid arm bars and choked etc.

That being said if you are a pure striker and have 0 ground skills or a good sprawl, your fancy side kick, round house etc do not work. You need to be able to shuck off a judoka, sprawl on a wrestler and be able to get up from a BJJ. Being a complete fighter you need more than just striking, hell if you get a good at aikido ( hello Steven Segal) you have a better chance to not be taking down having exposure to someone putting their hands on you.

As for biting I work in a hospital, I have seen people with fingers bitten off and the infections are horrid, just nasty.
 

Ill second shin here. I've done martial arts since I was 7 so about 30 years on and off. I prefer striking doing boxing / mauy thai and KK. Unlike most sherbros I don't have a 600-0 record ive been in fights where I have won easily and I have also had my ass kicked ( big learning moments). A majority of people whom fight that do not have a striking background will latch on to you and try to pull you to the ground and slam your head into pavement. I wrestled in high school and some submission wrestling to avoid arm bars and choked etc.

That being said if you are a pure striker and have 0 ground skills or a good sprawl, your fancy side kick, round house etc do not work. You need to be able to shuck off a judoka, sprawl on a wrestler and be able to get up from a BJJ. Being a complete fighter you need more than just striking, hell if you get a good at aikido ( hello Steven Segal) you have a better chance to not be taking down having exposure to someone putting their hands on you.

As for biting I work in a hospital, I have seen people with fingers bitten off and the infections are horrid, just nasty.

yeah i forgot to add in my post, the reason i was bringing up biting, is in comparison to how similar we are to chimps. our DNA is 99% the same, our bodies are built very similarly, and in human animal fighting, biting is a natural technique. Kids naturally bite all the time when they fight with each other but we teach them not too bite, blah blah blah, point im trying to make is its natural, as is grappling.

target points for biting, just as with chimps, is ears, nose, throat, and fingers. its really quite fascinating to me, and the science behind it. Its pure no rules animalistic brutal violent fight to kill fighting technique.

too sort of piggy back of my biting tangent, here we have your typical meth addict career criminal inmate, he talks about doing time at pelican bay and how he bit someones nose off in a fight. In this fight, we can see pretty much how a "wild" human would fight, the guy is untrained, as we can clearly see by his technique, nerd boy obviously has some stick fight training, however inmate uses brute force and aggression to just grapple and bite.



if anyone knows of any other videos of bites actually being used I would like to see them. The only other thing I can find that would come close is from a realistic movie scene.

 
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I'm also one of those who believe that in a street fight, wrestlers and judokas have an advantage over pure strikers, but not so sure for modern/sport bjj... From my experience, they have a lack of aggressive, effective take downs... specially the lower belts.

To be clear, I'm not talking about "combat bjj", but for the pure sport one. For a 2 year boxer/KB/MT guy against a 2 year sport bjj guy, I wouldn't bet my money on the guy who trains how to pull guard...

Another thing is that, wrestlers/judokas/bjj guys don't really realize the difference it makes when you are under striking fire... I've seen it a lot of times at the MMA gyms... They panic and forget their basic training.
 
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I'm also one of those who believe that in a street fight, wrestlers and judokas have an advantage over pure strikers, but not so sure for modern/sport bjj... From my experience, they have a lack of aggressive effective, take downs, specially for lower belts.

To be clear, I'm not talking about "combat bjj", but for the pure sport one. For a 2 year boxer/KB/MT guy against a 2 year sport bjj guy, I wouldn't bet my money on the guy who trains how to pull guard...

Another thing is that, wrestlers/judokas/bjj guys don't really realize the difference it makes when you are under striking fire... I've seen it a lot of times at the MMA gyms... They panic and forget their basic training.

I have stuffed a takedown from a wrestler. Sure I had a reach and height advantage but we weighed about the same.

If it was a no holds barred fight to the death and stuffing him was impossible, I would punch the backside of his head/neck.
 
I'm also one of those who believe that in a street fight, wrestlers and judokas have an advantage over pure strikers, but not so sure for modern/sport bjj... From my experience, they have a lack of aggressive effective, take downs, specially for lower belts.

To be clear, I'm not talking about "combat bjj", but for the pure sport one. For a 2 year boxer/KB/MT guy against a 2 year sport bjj guy, I wouldn't bet my money on the guy who trains how to pull guard...

I know some people would disagree with this, and I guess ultimately it just comes down to the individual's thinking, but for self-defense purposes I would probably recommend judo over BJJ. A judo throw by itself can end a fight, especially on a hard surface, and obviously if you're a judo guy then you're going to be very skilled at executing those throws. You really don't want to be rolling around on the ground in a street fight if you can avoid it for a variety of reasons--rocks, broken glass, his friends who run up and start kicking you in the head--and I think judo gives you a better chance of staying on your feet than BJJ.

And if you do end up on the ground, there is more than enough groundwork in judo that a skilled judoka should be able to handle himself as long as his opponent isn't a high-level BJJ guy.

Another thing is that, wrestlers/judokas/bjj guys don't really realize the difference it makes when you are under striking fire... I've seen it a lot of times at the MMA gyms... They panic and forget their basic training.

That seems like a reasonable point.
 
but for self-defense purposes I would probably recommend judo over BJJ

I would recommend judo over both bjj and wrestling for self defense. They have the weapons of both worlds, in a level enough to be efficient. Aggressive take downs that can do enough damage to end it there + submissions if needed.

Then you have sambo, which has both, + striking offense/defense... One of the most complete art out there, in my opinion. (unless we count mma as an art)

That seems like a reasonable point.

Like Tyson said:
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"
 
I would recommend judo over both bjj and wrestling for self defense. They have the weapons of both worlds, in a level enough to be efficient. Aggressive take downs that can do enough damage to end it there + submissions if needed.

Judo is my personal choice, in fact.

The only thing I don't like about it is the reliance on the jacket for a lot of the throws. While some throws, such as ippon seoi nage, translate perfectly into a no-gi encounter there are others that require definite modification (or just can't really be done at all).

Not that you actually need a large takedown arsenal for self-defense.

(unless we count mma as an art)

I have spent some time thinking about this, actually.

Is MMA a martial art?

The answer I have come up with is that it probably comes down to the gym. If it's a gym where "MMA" means that you train Muay Thai on Tuesday, wrestling on Wednesday and BJJ on Thursday, then no, I don't think it is. But if it's a gym that teaches MMA as a unified system of fighting that borrows from a lot of different arts and brings it all together into a cohesive whole, then I would think of that as its own style.
 
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