Still doubt karate?

Cobra Kai bringing it back.

We back. Truss me we back.
 
James Baller said:
Lots of dutch gyms was based on ass. Most of them in fact. You have trouble finding dutch gyms from that period that DIDNT originate in kyokushin (and most later gyms descended from them). Many of them very successful in kickboxing and now legendary. But whatever influences they brought with them founding dutch kickboxing or dutch MT, they were never really a major force in kyokushin tournaments.

But, yeah. next topic.
Click to expand...

Copy of my post?
 
I doubt karate by itself.....well any striking art for that matter. I think some are more useful than others but limiting yourself to one art has it's drawbacks. I think karate is a good starter point for striking in general. The timing and mental focus that karate brings is very useful. It can also be a good base for learning mma standup.

So Machida is a good example of a karate guy. His success in mma is largely due to his karate back ground and being very elusive and patient. But machida know's other styles as well that all contribute to his success. But hey i'm not knocking karate, it's obviously been shown to work as a base style in standup in mma.
 
@Judoka1532

I guess you missed Rhonda Roussey vs Holly Holmes. Or Overeem vs Lesnar. Savage wins for the strikers.
 
Last edited:
spacetime said:
@Judoka1532

I guess you missed Rhonda Roussey vs Holly Holmes. Or Overeem vs Lesnar. Savage wins for the strikers.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Holmes was a kickboxer and so was overeem I think. Or forget that, what do you think I mean?
 
Judoka1532 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Holmes was a kickboxer and so was overeem I think. Or forget that, what do you think I mean?
Click to expand...

You wrote that you doubt any striking arts on their own. Do you mean to tell me that Holly Holmes grappling won the fight against an Olympic Judoka? She whopped her ass striking.
 
Judoka1532 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Holmes was a kickboxer and so was overeem I think. Or forget that, what do you think I mean?
Click to expand...
Spacetime's a troll, don't pay him any attention.
 
spacetime said:
You wrote that you doubt any striking arts on their own. Do you mean to tell me that Holly Holmes grappling won the fight against an Olympic Judoka? She whopped her ass striking.
Click to expand...
Well here's where you are wrong. Ronda tried to take holly down and failed. If holly was all stand-up then she wouldn't have been able to keep ronda from taking her down. I'm pretty sure lesnar tried to close the gap on overeem and got shoved off too.

Basically what I'm saying is by itself, you can not take a 200lb karate guy who's never trained anything but karate and then put him up against a 200lb mma fighter. It's not going to work 99% of the time. So as I stated (and I was actually speaking good about karate but apparently you can't tell) it's a good base style. But no matter what, you have to be competent on takedown defense and grappling to make it work.
 
Judoka1532 said:
Well here's where you are wrong. Ronda tried to take holly down and failed. If holly was all stand-up then she wouldn't have been able to keep ronda from taking her down. I'm pretty sure lesnar tried to close the gap on overeem and got shoved off too.

Basically what I'm saying is by itself, you can not take a 200lb karate guy who's never trained anything but karate and then put him up against a 200lb mma fighter. It's not going to work 99% of the time. So as I stated (and I was actually speaking good about karate but apparently you can't tell) it's a good base style. But no matter what, you have to be competent on takedown defense and grappling to make it work.
Click to expand...

Rhonda Roussey is an olympic level Judoka. No amount of cross training on the side will prevent her from taking down a novice. You know why she couldn't take her down? Because she was groggy from getting her face punched in.

But keep deluding yourself that grappling beats striking.
 
spacetime said:
Rhonda Roussey is an olympic level Judoka. No amount of cross training on the side will prevent her from taking down a novice. You know why she couldn't take her down? Because she was groggy from getting her face punched in.

But keep deluding yourself that grappling beats striking.
Click to expand...
Ohhh you're one of those guys. But ok, if you want to feel that way then fine. It's not my butt that's gonna get kicked. It's gonna be yours when you think your karate is going to stop a division 1 wrestler or a bjj blackbelt. Maybe pure striking beats pure grappling 1 out of 25-100 times. Those odds are bad any way you look at it. I've seen multiple videos of strikers trying to beat bjj guys, it hardly ever works.

BTW: it's Ronda not Rhonda
 
Judoka1532 said:
Ohhh you're one of those guys. But ok, if you want to feel that way then fine. It's not my butt that's gonna get kicked. It's gonna be yours when you think your karate is going to stop a division 1 wrestler or a bjj blackbelt. Maybe pure striking beats pure grappling 1 out of 25-100 times. Those odds are bad any way you look at it. I've seen multiple videos of strikers trying to beat bjj guys, it hardly ever works.

BTW: it's Ronda not Rhonda
Click to expand...

Irrelevant data. This was a rare event when an elite grappler faced an elite striker (Holmes was boxing world champion). And the striker prevailed.

Oh and ronda got her face punched in the match afterwards too against Nunes. But nevermind that. We can blame that on scars from the first fight.
 
spacetime said:
Irrelevant data. This was a rare event when an elite grappler faced an elite striker (Holmes was boxing world champion). And the striker prevailed.

Oh and ronda got her face punched in the match afterwards too against Nunes. But nevermind that. We can blame that on scars from the first fight.
Click to expand...
Bro ronda tried to clinch Nunes 3 or 4 times and got shrugged off. Let's not forget Nunes is a brown belt in judo and a black belt in bjj. You are cherry picking stuff that you think supports your biased opinion, and even that isn't making sense.Takedown defense is not taught in boxing, karate, tae-kown-do, etc. Muay Thai is a better option because there is at least clinch work involved. I'm trying to be nice here but you are definitely biased towards your sport. What happened when James Toney tried to fight Randy Couture? Hell, Couture was like 46 or 47 at the time.
 
Judoka1532 said:
Bro ronda tried to clinch Nunes 3 or 4 times and got shrugged off. Let's not forget Nunes is a brown belt in judo and a black belt in bjj. You are cherry picking stuff that you think supports your biased opinion, and even that isn't making sense.Takedown defense is not taught in boxing, karate, tae-kown-do, etc. Muay Thai is a better option because there is at least clinch work involved. I'm trying to be nice here but you are definitely biased towards your sport. What happened when James Toney tried to fight Randy Couture? Hell, Couture was like 46 or 47 at the time.
Click to expand...

What happened when Tim Sylvia faced Ray Mercer? Amanda Nunnes is grappler yes, Holly Holmes is not.
 
And of course I cherry pick when the UFC is filled with decorated grapplers and very few equivalent strikers.
 
spacetime said:
What happened when Tim Sylvia faced Ray Mercer? Amanda Nunnes is grappler yes, Holly Holmes is not.
Click to expand...
Mercer KO'd him. Yea...that's one example. Couture never threw a punch while standing. There's also Royce Gracie destroying all of his opponents with BJJ in the early days before people really had any knowledge of mma. Royce basically kicked and threw weak open hand strikes. Gene Lebell (judo and wasn't allowed to kick) and defeated a boxer back in the day, Gary Turner (mma) beat Julius Francis (strict boxer), Ricardo Mayorga (strict boxer) who lost all of his mma fights.

So about the mercer fight. Even if boxers win 1 out of 5 times, that's only 20%. I'm guessing it's between 5-20% wins for boxing if fighting a grappler. He caught Sylvia...no excuses plain and simple.

There's also plenty of footage from brazil in the 80's and 90's of bjj guys fighting all types of strikers. .....but all were ended from relative easy takedowns to finishing on the ground.


 
Judoka1532 said:
Mercer KO'd him. Yea...that's one example. Couture never threw a punch while standing. There's also Royce Gracie destroying all of his opponents with BJJ in the early days before people really had any knowledge of mma. Royce basically kicked and threw weak open hand strikes. Gene Lebell (judo and wasn't allowed to kick) and defeated a boxer back in the day, Gary Turner (mma) beat Julius Francis (strict boxer), Ricardo Mayorga (strict boxer) who lost all of his mma fights.

So about the mercer fight. Even if boxers win 1 out of 5 times, that's only 20%. I'm guessing it's between 5-20% wins for boxing if fighting a grappler. He caught Sylvia...no excuses plain and simple.

There's also plenty of footage from brazil in the 80's and 90's of bjj guys fighting all types of strikers. .....but all were ended from relative easy takedowns to finishing on the ground.


Click to expand...


If a prime George Foreman (who was strong as an ox) went to random Judo dojangs and Koed amateurs,would that prove that Boxing beats Judo? That's what your showing me there. Elite grapplers against no name strikers.
 
spacetime said:
If a prime George Foreman (who was strong as an ox) went to random Judo dojangs and Koed amateurs,would that prove that Boxing beats Judo? That's what your showing me there. Elite grapplers against no name strikers.
Click to expand...
Well yea there has to be competent bjj players and judokas (I would say brown belt up). Are we adjusting for weight too? So in your scenario, we take a 265lb foreman vs a 265 lb brown belt at a random dojo, I think the judo player will have a better chance than a 265lb karate black belt at a random dojo vs 265lb Teddy Riner.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,648
Messages
55,431,944
Members
174,775
Latest member
kilgorevontrouty

Share this page

Back
Top