Locked STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER v.2

[Myrddin Wild]

I'm not talking about Rey resisting Kylo's mind probe. I'm talking about her suddenly being able to force Stormtrooper 007 to free her.

Well she obviously learned that from her recent interaction from Kylo.



She literally just got done interacting with Kylo's mind after Kylo opened the portal. It's not that hard to imagine that once she got in there & saw how it worked that she could project her thoughts into the storm trooper. it actually took her a few tries as well.

This is what pisses people off about Mary Sue Rey; she makes frankly ridiculous leaps in ability with no apparent effort. To use a martial art analogy, it's like teaching a white belt only how to arm bar someone, and expecting them to extrapolate from that one technique how to RNC, knee bar etc. And while we're on the subject...

That's not a fair analogy. more fair would be that she learned an arm bar... & then she did it again in a live situation.

There is no direct correlation between proficiency with a staff and swordsmanship.

I disagree

Hell, you only have to look at the first UFC's, when fighters who had trained extensively in striking could not transition effectively to grappling range.

This is a completely different dynamic going from grappling to striking... compared to going from staff fighting to sword.

Again, this one of the most annoying aspects of the sequels: audiences are just expected to take Rey's incredible abilities at face value. Because we never see her earn her skills and powers. She's just that good,

I'll give you that the movie could've spent a minute showing her training with a staff. Should've also shown her practicing with her flight simulator that's in the novel. (she actually mastered it at the highest level) Practicing ShreWook or however it's spelled & binary droid language.

I get it, that it's not in the movie... but it's there in canon.

I literally rolled my eyes when the trailer showed Emo and MSR fighting. Seriously? What's the fucking point? He has zero credibility as a threat. Compare and contrast Empire and Return; Luke, even after Yoda Training Camp, was curb-stomped by Vader in their first match. He was never in the fight.

Luke was never trained in hand to hand combat. You gotta give Rey something for being a mega-force sensitive that learned hand to had combat & staff fighting out of necessity while Luke was focused on flying. Big difference there. I mean you're cutting hairs trying to say that being an elite staff fighter gives no advantage when picking up a sword... but you're WAY out there trying to compare Luke's flight experience to how quickly he took to the light saber.

Kylo is the grandson of Vader. It's canon that Vader used the constant pain his cybernetic limbs and life-support suit caused him to strengthen his connection to the Dark Side.

Are you quoting me canon that's outside of the movie to prove a point while holding me to only talk about the movies? In that case your whole case about Mary Sue Ray is straight out the window because her training prior to Ep. 7 is VERY WELL documented in Canon... and she worked VERY HARD for everything she has.

hey, I'm proud of you. I'll give you your point about physical pain & you drop this Mary Sue bit. Agreed?

You don't even gotta drop it... just stop pestering me about it. The only reason it's even up for conversation is because I'm playing your "only in the movies" game. Full Canon Rey is fully explained. No doubt about it. Full canon Rey also expains the mind reading in more detail. She not only followed the mutual portal between their minds that were opened... she actually learned about the ability itself from Kylo's own experience while she was in his mind.

Sweet! Thanx for opening this up.

 

[chickenluver]

This the best trailer in the history of cinema imo​

I put the HD version on the big screen TV & had the theater qual sound system cranked up till I could feel the bass vibrating in my chest & put it on loop for about a dozen rotationz.

I was as glassy eyed as Rey was at the end of the trailer... the whole time!

 

[KnightTemplar]

Well she obviously learned that from her recent interaction from Kylo.



She literally just got done interacting with Kylo's mind after Kylo opened the portal. It's not that hard to imagine that once she got in there & saw how it worked that she could project her thoughts into the storm trooper. it actually took her a few tries as well.
That's not a fair analogy. more fair would be that she learned an arm bar... & then she did it again in a live situation.
I disagree
This is a completely different dynamic going from grappling to striking... compared to going from staff fighting to sword.


I'll give you that the movie could've spent a minute showing her training with a staff. Should've also shown her practicing with her flight simulator that's in the novel. (she actually mastered it at the highest level) Practicing ShreWook or however it's spelled & binary droid language.

I get it, that it's not in the movie... but it's there in canon.



Luke was never trained in hand to hand combat. You gotta give Rey something for being a mega-force sensitive that learned hand to had combat & staff fighting out of necessity while Luke was focused on flying. Big difference there. I mean you're cutting hairs trying to say that being an elite staff fighter gives no advantage when picking up a sword... but you're WAY out there trying to compare Luke's flight experience to how quickly he took to the light saber.

Are you quoting me canon that's outside of the movie to prove a point while holding me to only talk about the movies? In that case your whole case about Mary Sue Ray is straight out the window because her training prior to Ep. 7 is VERY WELL documented in Canon... and she worked VERY HARD for everything she has.

hey, I'm proud of you. I'll give you your point about physical pain & you drop this Mary Sue bit. Agreed?

You don't even gotta drop it... just stop pestering me about it. The only reason it's even up for conversation is because I'm playing your "only in the movies" game. Full Canon Rey is fully explained. No doubt about it. Full canon Rey also expains the mind reading in more detail. She not only followed the mutual portal between their minds that were opened... she actually learned about the ability itself from Kylo's own experience while she was in his mind.

Sweet! Thanx for opening this up.

Lol at, "elite staff fighter". IIRC, we see Rey use her staff twice in combat. Once against two alien thugs who try to snatch BB-8, and once against Finn, the highly trained, battle-hardened...janitor. If she's an elite staff fighter, every bouncer is a UFC champion with a full training camp.

Show me one group of swordsmen who used staff fighting to increase their skill with a blade. Just one. I'll wait. From Roman Legions to Samurai to my old mob, people who wanted to get better with swords, trained with fucking swords. Bo's, quarterstaffs etc were used by the lower classes, who would never have a chance to fight with a sword anyway.

And no, I'm sorry, but I'm not, "dropping the Mary Sue bit" because that's exactly what Rey is. You're own post proves it: from resisting a short torture session by Emo Ren, Rey is able to master the Jedi Mind Trick. Luke went through weeks of training with Yoda and couldn't lift his X-Wing out of the swamp. Mary Sue Rey lifts boulders weighing several tons with hardly any training at the end of TLJ.

This why I and many other fans don't like Rey. It's not sexism. It's because she's boring. She has no flaws, no weaknesses, no real challenges to overcome. She's Superman without the Kryptonite.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

the resistance has been fighting these dudes for what a year as you say? You would think that the rest of the republic knew enough about them and their massive fleet to want to do something about it. instead they fucking wait until there's 12 people left in the resistance to join the fight. Empire tech, empire fleet, a powerful despot with powers that Luke knew about for a few years which means leia knew. You would think that if Leia and Luke fucking skywalker say hey there's this bad mofo with an empire level fleet behind him making trouble you'd believe them and prepare a massive counter force. Nope just let em bang bro and we'll wait until it's almost to late to join. 30 years is to damn soon to let some shit like that go down when you have Luke skywalker on your team.

This is all easily explained in Canon.

As far as if you want to talk about "just what's in the movie"... I think it's pretty obvious that they didn't realize the extent of the capabilities of he First Order. You could simply take that & be fine without the full explanation.

"but the warships were so big, how did they build them in secret?" Well, the galaxy is a big place... & there's uncharted places as well. We've got another movie which will no doubt explain this as we've seen at least tree fiddy Star destroyers show up in the trailer & so it will be revealed in the movies that they had learned how to navigate the "supposed " unknown regions.

All right, I'm taking the "movie only" cuffs off. The Empire retreated to the "supposed" unknown regions... where the New Republic couldn't enter as the routes were not mapped by them. They built all their massive war machines & funded them by being a part of the biggest smuggling syndicates in the galaxy.

The First Order made themselves known to the New Republic little bits at a time, but their full power was never known until Ep. 7. Leia was aware that they were involved in illegal activity & tried to plead the Senate to investigate... but between a mix of politicians who were on the First Order Payroll & people just not wanting to start another Galactic War... they decided that the First Order was not worth prodding.

So Leia started developing the Resistance forces together & doing some investigating outside of the Senate. It was a long process of investigating the galaxy... as that's a big place, but eventually they stumbled upon a computer that showed the First Order had over 5O flag ships & so things got serious with the rebelz... but that's about the time that Ep. 7 started. So that's why nobody interfered with the First Order. They had no idea what they had been doing & how many warships they had built.

 

[Clear Winner]

I don't recall haven't seen the movie in years. I remember people were upset that Leia hugged Rey when she found out Han died (she knew Han what 24 hours?) instead of Chewy, the same Chewy that walked by Leia like nothing happened. It's like the people that made these movies didn't know a thing about Star Wars, from the characters, to the force, to the physics.

Trying to use that hug to transfer our emotions for Han over to Rey.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Lol at, "elite staff fighter". IIRC, we see Rey use her staff twice in combat.

Fail.

If you're using Canon outside the movies on me... I'm using them as well... & Rey's abilities as an Elite staff fighter were so well known on Jakku that most people didn't fuck with her.

Show me one group of swordsmen who used staff fighting to increase their skill with a blade.

That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about Rey being able to transfer her skills with the staff to the sword. I don't think the 2 are that far removed. Different... but not so much so that you're making it out to be.

Mary Sue Rey lifts boulders weighing far several tons with hardly any training at the end of TLJ.

That was "necessity." It's a very big difference between Luke petering out in the middle of a swamp with no consequences & a self defeatist attitude & Rey's friends about to die. The force responds to necessity... hell Luke & Leia learned telepathy due to necessity... where's your rant about that? there is no rant, because you understand necessity. You just don't want to grant it to Rey. She learned telepathy by necessity too but you overlook it.

It's not sexism.

I'm not so sure. you might want to check that.

This why I and many other fans don't like Rey. It's not sexism. It's because she's boring. She has no flaws, no weaknesses, no real challenges to overcome. She's Superman without the Kryptonite. She's boring.

All right then. Do your thing.

I disagree. Love the character.

All right... we done?

 

[WFA4Ever]

Man The Last Jedi really killed star wars for me. I have 0 urge to buy tickets for ep xi. Will be the first numbered star wars movie I won't see opening night. Feel kinda sad about it but Last Jedi was a piece of shit and judging by spoilers for this one it won't be much better .

Looking forward to The Mandalorian though.

 

[Deleted member 484047]

The disappearance of a named character that was the best starfighter pilot in the fucking galaxy in Wedge is the one that frustrates me the most. I know the actor wanted nothing to do with 7-9 but fuck me, couldn't they at least mention the dude in passing?

And Po or whateverthefuckhisname is, is leader of Red Squadron WHICH IS WHAT ROGUE SQUADRON WAS PRIOR TO EMPIRE STRIKES BACK!

Disney shoulda just taken the fucking Rogue Squadron books which included the conquest of the Imperial homeworld, and the Zsinj books and used those as a basis but NNNOOOO

Poe? Shit, they turned Ackbar into an unnamed background character they was killed off with mo fanfare. They guy who led the rebel fleet at Endor, who WOULD HAVE KNOWN that huge ship needed to be taken out no matter what wasnt in charge of the evacuation of the one singular resistance base. Instead, you had Leia who was ALSO a rebel leader but had apparently forgotten that sometimes your troops have to be fodder to get the job done.

And THAT gripe covers all of 3 minutes of the film. It's all downhill from there.

 

[Streeter]

So movie is......... just my thoughts on how it goes from trailers.

Spoiler

Kylo in search of some fleet
Kylo an Rey fight
Kylo n Rey team up to fight Emporer
Emporer turns Rey by telling her hes her creator
Rey fights it eventually
Rey n Kylo team up again and they kill Emperor...... likley Kylo or Rey die in process.
The end

 

[Myrddin Wild]

PLEASE TELL ME you're joking.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Fail.

If you're using Canon outside the movies on me... I'm using them as well... & Rey's abilities as an Elite staff fighter were so well known on Jakku that most people didn't fuck with her.



That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about Rey being able to transfer her skills with the staff to the sword. I don't think the 2 are that far removed. Different... but not so much so that you're making it out to be.



That was "necessity." It's a very big difference between Luke petering out in the middle of a swamp with no consequences & a self defeatist attitude & Rey's friends about to die. The force responds to necessity... hell Luke & Leia learned telepathy due to necessity... where's your rant about that? there is no rant, because you understand necessity. You just don't want to grant it to Rey. She learned telepathy by necessity too but you overlook it.

I'm not so sure. you might want to check that.

All right then. Do your thing.

I disagree. Love the character.

All right... we done?

The Force responds to necessity.



Luke was getting the shit kicked out of him in Cloud City by Vader. He knew his friends might also die with him. But the necessity of defeating Vader didn't allow him to suddenly channel massive extra amounts of Force power. He was completely outclassed by his daddy. Yoda, who was a far stronger Jedi with centuries of training and battle experience, still got his ass handed to him by Sidious, even though Yoda knew this was his only chance to end the Sith Lord's reign of terror before it had really begun.

Look, since I expanded into canon to prove my points, I'll grant you that Rey was an elite staff fighter if it says so in the novelisation. Fair's fair. But your attempt to use her ability with a staff to explain her abilities with a Light Sabre still doesn't fly. Blindly stating you disagree with me is not a winning argument. You are unable to provide a single example of how training with a staff allows a person to fight at a high level with a sword. Throughout history, swordsmen trained with swords and staff fighters trained with staffs. They were two very different weapons requiring separate training in different skills and body mechanics. Saying a staff fighter will automatically know how to use a sword is as dumb as saying an archer can use a rifle efficiently the first time he picks it up.

Oh no, we ain't done yet, son. Not until you admit defeat. Tap, Nap or Snap

 

[chickenluver]

It was 1,000 years of peace.

the "thousand generations" thing was said in trailer one of Ep. 9 regarding all the Jedi who's history lives in her.

Kenobi says "for over a thousand generations"

watch from 1:20

 

[chickenluver]

I still lmao how the order could have gotten so powerful to take on republic

The first order should be in the position of the resistance not other way around lol

That could have been really cool. A small but growing insurgency force or terrorist group against a newly created republic.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Luke was getting the shit kicked out of him in Cloud City by Vader. He knew his friends might also die with him. But the necessity of defeating Vader didn't allow him to suddenly channel massive extra amounts of Force power. He was completely outclassed by his daddy. Yoda, who was a far stronger Jedi with centuries of training and battle experience, still got his ass handed to him by Sidious, even though Yoda knew this was his only chance to end the Sith Lord's reign of terror before it had really begun.

This is so obvious that I'm having a very hard time not being sarcastic.

All your examples are vs other masters of the force.

The example of Rey lifting rocks... is against rocks.

The example of Leia & Luke using the force has no repelling factor as well.

If you don't understand that "focus" is the key to using the force after watching Luke on degobah then shame on you. Do you know what causes maximum focus?

I'll give you one fucking guess.

Spoiler: Will he have to look?

NECESSITY!!!!

You are unable to provide a single example of how training with a staff allows a person to fight at a high level with a sword.

All right... I'll see what I can find. I see it in my head... so there's got to be something out there. I'll show your ass!!

Oh no, we ain't done yet, son. Not until you admit defeat. Tap, Nap or Snap

I love that you called me "son"

You're likely one of my illegitimate sons that i'm not aware of.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

No excitement for this. Will watch this only because I invested time in the first two and just want to see it out.

It's like one of those things you don't want to do but will do just to finish it and get it out of the way.

She's already beaten her biggest threat (rey) and pretty much every threat to her so there is no anticipation or sense of danger - she's gonna murk everyone (again).

 

[One MMA Fan]

Yeah man, I am aware of these points I just don't find them satisfying or convincing.

I am fine with Rey winning the first duel. I am not fine with Rey blowing out a large group of Snoke's personal guardians.

I am fine with Rey being able to display great feats of the force, such as winning a tug-o-war for a lightsaber, or slowing down finding "teh zone". I am not fine with her demonstrating subtle and intricate powers like telepathy after having learned of her force sensitivity just a day or two prior.

Not every character can be written perfectly, and I think these are fair criticisms. Rey is a good character and the actor playing her does a great job.

Alright then it just doesn't work for you.. it happens hope you will vibe better with future scenes.

One last point there have been 40+ years since the original trilogy so while that was cool, state of the art etc etc in the in the 70's and 80's you kinda have to update stuff from all angles, this kids now days want stuff fast and aren't impressed with slow and steady they are growing up in this times where they have access to streaming and every movie and TV show is essentially a few clicks away from a 70 inch flat screen TV so I don't blame the new movies if they are in some ways faster to pick up tricks or have a larger action scene / lightsaber battle.

PS: Some of this new cast actors are radiating with talent I feel Adam Driver is a few years away from an Oscar he is that good that this is a decent prediction. Daisy is younger but you can see her old-school training from theater and whatnot she is quite good.

 

[ufcfan4]

I get the whole complaint about Rey being too powerful and too skilled in the Force far too quickly. That said, for those who claimed she has never met adversity, her record isn’t spotless. Snoke absolutely merked her. On its way to being a 10-7 round before Kylo intervened.


MMAth

Snoke>Rey>Kylo>Snoke

 

[PEB]

Apparently things are going to sh*t as far as final filming is happening no one really seems to have a handle on why ether. There are people trying to pull it a dozen different ways during final production and they have already have had multiple reshoots and people around the project compared it to John Carter hardly something you should be proud of given the importance of this ending. It almost sounds like they are just going to put something out there and hope it works. This could mean that even as they release the final trailers these may not resemble what makes it to the theater.

 

[ShadBo]

Apparently things are going to sh*t as far as final filming is happening no one really seems to have a handle on why ether. There are people trying to pull it a dozen different ways during final production and they have already have had multiple reshoots and people around the project compared it to John Carter hardly something you should be proud of given the importance of this ending. It almost sounds like they are just going to put something out there and hope it works. This could mean that even as they release the final trailers these may not resemble what makes it to the theater.

Interesting. I'd like to hear more about this.

 

[Mike]

LOL, damn I guess i'll have look for the extended cut. That burst of energy spewing from the shaft threw me off. I guess there will be books on how palpatine survived the fall. I know the EU had an arc with Palpatine and clone bodies. They just need to reboot this trilogy, its a fucking mess and only serves to undermine the OT.