STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[IamStryker]

Is Rey a Mary Sue? Maybe in TFA, but what did she do in TLJ that was so overpowered? Put Luke on his ass? Lift rocks? Break a lightsaber? I'm listening.

Is Luke an insult to the lore? According to whom? Mark Hamill, based on heavily edited interview footage? Your preconceptions? Lay it on me.

Is the movie boring? Maybe for you, but not for me. Does that make me an idiot for enjoying a brainless film? Really? What's that make you? A genius too smart to enjoy a movie?
.

I just came into this thread and wouldn't mind discussing some of the above points. I would like to start with the last one in regards to was the movie boring. Overall no I wouldn't describe it as boring. In the theater I remember thinking WTF quite a few times but I would say I was engaged with what was going on. It was after the movie was over that I had so many problems with it.

I don't really know much about the whole "Mary Sue" thing. I'm sure I wouldn't have minded all of the female characters in this movie if they were well done. If the story was well done. If what they did made sense and the same goes for the men in the movie.

In regards to Rey's power I do have a problem with her. What we know from Rey in this movie assuming they aren't lying to us is that her parents were nobodies. So Rey somehow has a lot of force power that she receives for no particular reason at all. Her character does not learn how to use the force through a logical story telling arc like Luke did in the originals. She just receives all this power like a dragon ball Z character might. How is she just as powerful if not more powerful than Kylo Ren who was trained and studied using the force for many years?

I'm sure you have seen Mark Hamill say in multiple ways how this Luke just isn't acting how Luke should act. His character is not consistent with the originals and there isn't a good explanation for his actions. One thing that I really really hated was how he was killed off in this movie. I really don't get what the point was of tricking Kylo with the force hologram if Luke was just going to die anyway. Why not have Luke actually go to that battle and go out in a fun and awesome way that fans want to see? Tricking Kylo only would have been cool if Luke would have lived to continue resisting them but it's nonsensical if he dies anyway. That's enough for now.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Here's the problem with you idiots, and I say that with love and respect. STAR WARS fan to STAR WARS fan.

If you don't like the film, there's no arguing that -- but if you're going to make up bullshit? You made that up. It's not in the film. You've drawn a poor connection. Of course someone's going to call you on it. And do you know why? Because what you're saying is like saying, "It's the boogieman." Whether you refer to Feminism, SJW nonsense, or the filmmakers trolling the audience -- you might as well admit you believe in the boogieman and that the boogieman is responsible.

When I ask, "So point out: where is the boogieman?"

I get shown a picture of a joke or a t-shirt, and you're like, "Proof of the boogieman!"

And when I say, "But that's a t-shirt. That's a memo pad. Neither of which are in the film."

You respond, "But the producer wore that shirt. The director held that memo. LOOK: boogieman!"

It's all your worst fears come true, but it's even worse than you imagine!

Because when there is no boogieman, it means you are the boogieman. Let's use an example you may already know.

Let's say you're in a thread and without warning someone brings up racism and how unfair the current system is. Has it ever occurred to you, that the person who brings up the racism... is the racist? You ever do that? There's your boogieman, right?

Yes, the concepts you refer to may exist, just like the boogieman may exist. But when asked to point it out, that's where things get a little hazy. That's where ad hominem attacks and sheepish retreats start to occur. Which is fine, I didn't really expect much from the "boogieman."

If you want to finally use evidence from the film, I'm all for that discussion. But, you can't say the existence of female characters equates the boogieman; that's a specious connection. Just because the characters are there, doesn't mean they're promoting an agenda other than the one stated: which is adding diversity.

Is Rey a Mary Sue? Maybe in TFA, but what did she do in TLJ that was so overpowered? Put Luke on his ass? Lift rocks? Break a lightsaber? I'm listening.

Is Luke an insult to the lore? According to whom? Mark Hamill, based on heavily edited interview footage? Your preconceptions? Lay it on me.

Is the movie boring? Maybe for you, but not for me. Does that make me an idiot for enjoying a brainless film? Really? What's that make you? A genius too smart to enjoy a movie?


Your theories suck and even you know that, that's why you're so angry.

It doesn't make sense for filmmakers to tank a film or insult their audience -- it makes no sense to limit the source of your revenue. There's no manufacturer that intends that. Every idea, concept, or reference invoked in a film is intended to bring people in not shut people out. That you would even conjecture any person or organization would willfully hamper its own profits is nothing short of saying, "LOOK: BOOGIEMAN."

Please improve for your own sake. Honestly, tho: there's only up from where you are.

BooooooooOOOOOOoooooogie, mannnnnnnnn

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Revenge of the Sith was pretty good. The Last Jedi is better than Attack of the Clones so there’s hope the third one will be passable.

"Nnnnnnooooooooooooo!"

 

[DrBdan]

This morning I listened to a podcast episode from a few years ago (Full of Sith) discussing immediate reactions to TFA and it reminded me of how excited I was for the new trilogy after seeing TFA. TFA wasn't perfect but it was fun and seemed like a safe introduction to a new age of Star Wars.

For all the good and bad of TLJ the worst is that I'm left not being excited for the next movie. My only question is basically "where do they go from here?".

 

[TrueBias]

I just came into this thread and wouldn't mind discussing some of the above points. I would like to start with the last one in regards to was the movie boring. Overall no I wouldn't describe it as boring. In the theater I remember thinking WTF quite a few times but I would say I was engaged with what was going on. It was after the movie was over that I had so many problems with it.

I don't really know much about the whole "Mary Sue" thing. I'm sure I wouldn't have minded all of the female characters in this movie if they were well done. If the story was well done. If what they did made sense and the same goes for the men in the movie.

In regards to Rey's power I do have a problem with her. What we know from Rey in this movie assuming they aren't lying to us is that her parents were nobodies. So Rey somehow has a lot of force power that she receives for no particular reason at all. Her character does not learn how to use the force through a logical story telling arc like Luke did in the originals. She just receives all this power like a dragon ball Z character might. How is she just as powerful if not more powerful than Kylo Ren who was trained and studied using the force for many years?

I'm sure you have seen Mark Hamill say in multiple ways how this Luke just isn't acting how Luke should act. His character is not consistent with the originals and there isn't a good explanation for his actions. One thing that I really really hated was how he was killed off in this movie. I really don't get what the point was of tricking Kylo with the force hologram if Luke was just going to die anyway. Why not have Luke actually go to that battle and go out in a fun and awesome way that fans want to see? Tricking Kylo only would have been cool if Luke would have lived to continue resisting them but it's nonsensical if he dies anyway. That's enough for now.

I actually had to look up what Mary Sue meant and its quite an accurate label.

I WOULD describe it as boring and I found it boring in the moment. Id say it was around the part where they just got to the Salt planet, meaning it was just after the kamikaze scene. When Luke showed up, I had forgotten all about him. I was displeased with the light saber battle like a motherfucker, so when he showed up, I thought, oh thank god, finally, a scene that could actually be cooler than Darth Mauls saving scene with the Jedis. Then the ending happened. After 2 hours + of disappointment, they leave another, possibly, the worst disappointment of them all and that was at the end, leaving that taste in our mouths. Disgusting.

Rey just having powers for the fuck of it is odd in this day and age. Someone, a WHITE person, has all what she needs right from the get go... Hardly anyone can identify with this shit...

 

[TrueBias]

Revenge of the Sith was pretty good. The Last Jedi is better than Attack of the Clones so there’s hope the third one will be passable.

Better than Attack of... Mother of god, opinions are opinions, but I honestly didnt know anyone really hated Attack until this pile of shit arrived in December.

Every time I see someone piss on Attack, I hear the same shit. Anakin and his forced love for Padme, Anakin and his sand talk. Big fucking, god damn deal, I didnt come here to see that shit. We all knew how those 2 had to come to be and we knew it had to end with tragedy, but I wasnt expecting even a half ass Romeo & Juliet subplot. The acting with everyone, among ALL the prequels were blocky. The all suck in their own ways, but none of them were good.

Attack had memorable scenes. Jango Fetts battle, Dooku vs Obi/Anakin, Dooku vs. Yoda, and as flawed and dare I say, cheesy as it was, Id rather have it than not have it. Anakins speeder scene to kill the sand people was a great shot. Christ, the music, the nostalgia of Anakin and Padme coming out of the igloo, and the shot of him riding through the valleys. As said before, I cannot remember not ONE scene in TLJ that had any epic moments. None. In a Star Wars movie. Some attempts and, ya know, they were epic, epic failures.

 

[IamStryker]

Rey just having powers for the fuck of it is odd in this day and age. Someone, a WHITE person, has all what she needs right from the get go... Hardly anyone can identify with this shit...

I agree but what does being white have to do with anything?

 

[ChucksGlassJaw]

Better than Attack of... Mother of god, opinions are opinions, but I honestly didnt know anyone really hated Attack until this pile of shit arrived in December.

Every time I see someone piss on Attack, I hear the same shit. Anakin and his forced love for Padme, Anakin and his sand talk. Big fucking, god damn deal, I didnt come here to see that shit. We all knew how those 2 had to come to be and we knew it had to end with tragedy, but I wasnt expecting even a half ass Romeo & Juliet subplot. The acting with everyone, among ALL the prequels were blocky. The all suck in their own ways, but none of them were good.

Attack had memorable scenes. Jango Fetts battle, Dooku vs Obi/Anakin, Dooku vs. Yoda, and as flawed and dare I say, cheesy as it was, Id rather have it than not have it. Anakins speeder scene to kill the sand people was a great shot. Christ, the music, the nostalgia of Anakin and Padme coming out of the igloo, and the shot of him riding through the valleys. As said before, I cannot remember not ONE scene in TLJ that had any epic moments. None. In a Star Wars movie. Some attempts and, ya know, they were epic, epic failures.

Attack of the Clones is the only one where I can't find a single redeeming quality. The only one that even comes close is that Ewan knew he was making a piece of shit and had some fun with it. Jango Fett's battle - It's not exactly suspenseful knowing it had no consequences. It's not like Jango stood a chance. Dooku vs Obi/Anakin was just dumb. The tone of the fight was all off. It looked bad. The setting was terrible. Dooku vs Yoda - You mean tornado Yoda? RUFK. That was God awful.

The worst part was the battle at the Genosis arena. It looked terrible. Samuel L Jackson is about as athletic as a pineapple. It ruined any mystery with the Jedi Knights. Those extras that played Jedi sucked. Portman was at her most bangable. That's the only good thing about it.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Better than Attack of... Mother of god, opinions are opinions, but I honestly didnt know anyone really hated Attack until this pile of shit arrived in December.

Every time I see someone piss on Attack, I hear the same shit. Anakin and his forced love for Padme, Anakin and his sand talk. Big fucking, god damn deal, I didnt come here to see that shit. We all knew how those 2 had to come to be and we knew it had to end with tragedy, but I wasnt expecting even a half ass Romeo & Juliet subplot. The acting with everyone, among ALL the prequels were blocky. The all suck in their own ways, but none of them were good.

Attack had memorable scenes. Jango Fetts battle, Dooku vs Obi/Anakin, Dooku vs. Yoda, and as flawed and dare I say, cheesy as it was, Id rather have it than not have it. Anakins speeder scene to kill the sand people was a great shot. Christ, the music, the nostalgia of Anakin and Padme coming out of the igloo, and the shot of him riding through the valleys. As said before, I cannot remember not ONE scene in TLJ that had any epic moments. None. In a Star Wars movie. Some attempts and, ya know, they were epic, epic failures.

Attack of the Clones was definitely worse for me
I hated TLJ, but even though I thought the story was stupid, and I didn't like where they were going with the characters, I was never actually really bored with the movie. If I were just judging it as just an action/scifi film, and not a SW film, then it would have been fine as some fluff to watch on TV on a Sunday afternoon when nothing else is on.
Attack of the Clones was BORING. It was an absolute chore for me to get through that movie. The Padme/Anakin sand line was just one of many of their cringe scenes together. A big part of the movie, and how Anakin ends up turning to the darkside is because he fell in love--the Padme/Anakin stuff wasn't some small part of the story.
I found nothing special about the Dooku fight, and the Yoda fight looked silly to me. And the arena looked too fake.

And Anakin was an annoying twat throughout the movie. Bitchy attitude with the council and Obi, creepy ass fucker with Padme. He was worse than Crylo
It was the worst SW movie, followed by TLJ for me

 

[liljoe]

I just came into this thread and wouldn't mind discussing some of the above points. I would like to start with the last one in regards to was the movie boring. Overall no I wouldn't describe it as boring. In the theater I remember thinking WTF quite a few times but I would say I was engaged with what was going on. It was after the movie was over that I had so many problems with it.

I don't really know much about the whole "Mary Sue" thing. I'm sure I wouldn't have minded all of the female characters in this movie if they were well done. If the story was well done. If what they did made sense and the same goes for the men in the movie.

In regards to Rey's power I do have a problem with her. What we know from Rey in this movie assuming they aren't lying to us is that her parents were nobodies. So Rey somehow has a lot of force power that she receives for no particular reason at all. Her character does not learn how to use the force through a logical story telling arc like Luke did in the originals. She just receives all this power like a dragon ball Z character might. How is she just as powerful if not more powerful than Kylo Ren who was trained and studied using the force for many years?

I'm sure you have seen Mark Hamill say in multiple ways how this Luke just isn't acting how Luke should act. His character is not consistent with the originals and there isn't a good explanation for his actions. One thing that I really really hated was how he was killed off in this movie. I really don't get what the point was of tricking Kylo with the force hologram if Luke was just going to die anyway. Why not have Luke actually go to that battle and go out in a fun and awesome way that fans want to see? Tricking Kylo only would have been cool if Luke would have lived to continue resisting them but it's nonsensical if he dies anyway. That's enough for now.

One thing the OT firmly established is Jedi go into exile/hiding when shit fucks up and are needed the most.

How is Luke any different from established lore?

 

[Zazen]

Better than Attack of... Mother of god, opinions are opinions, but I honestly didnt know anyone really hated Attack until this pile of shit arrived in December.

Every time I see someone piss on Attack, I hear the same shit. Anakin and his forced love for Padme, Anakin and his sand talk. Big fucking, god damn deal, I didnt come here to see that shit. We all knew how those 2 had to come to be and we knew it had to end with tragedy, but I wasnt expecting even a half ass Romeo & Juliet subplot. The acting with everyone, among ALL the prequels were blocky. The all suck in their own ways, but none of them were good.

Attack had memorable scenes. Jango Fetts battle, Dooku vs Obi/Anakin, Dooku vs. Yoda, and as flawed and dare I say, cheesy as it was, Id rather have it than not have it. Anakins speeder scene to kill the sand people was a great shot. Christ, the music, the nostalgia of Anakin and Padme coming out of the igloo, and the shot of him riding through the valleys. As said before, I cannot remember not ONE scene in TLJ that had any epic moments. None. In a Star Wars movie. Some attempts and, ya know, they were epic, epic failures.

Or maybe both films just sucked? Star Wars is easily the most overrated franchise of all time

 

[SmilinDesperado]

One thing the OT firmly established is Jedi go into exile/hiding when shit fucks up and are needed the most.

How is Luke any different from established lore?

It didn't really "establish" that. They don't go into exile because they're scared, or are wallowing in self pity. It's a tactical retreat.
At the end of ROTS, Yoda and Obi agree to go into hiding until the time was right. There was nothing the 2 of them alone could do against Palpatine and his new empire.

Luke just gave the fuck up. There was no plan. He was okay with letting his own flesh and blood turn to the darkside and then kill countless innocents, as well as his own twin sister and best friend.
I could buy a story about a weary hero tired of being a hero, but giving up on your family? Force, or no Force power, I'm not going to let my sister get murdered while I drink tit milk from a walrus alone on an island like a weirdo, but someone with the power of Luke does?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

This morning I listened to a podcast episode from a few years ago (Full of Sith) discussing immediate reactions to TFA and it reminded me of how excited I was for the new trilogy after seeing TFA. TFA wasn't perfect but it was fun and seemed like a safe introduction to a new age of Star Wars.

For all the good and bad of TLJ the worst is that I'm left not being excited for the next movie. My only question is basically "where do they go from here?".

Honestly though I tend to think people went far too easy on TFA, the idea that it only needed to be a fun diversion after the prequels ignored that actually it was introducing an entire trilogy of films both building the setting/characters and setting the tone.

I would say as well people gave ABrams far too much credit in terms of thinking he had answers planned out to the mysteries he introduced, those who said this was lost 2.0 were proven correct.

 

[liljoe]

It didn't really "establish" that. They don't go into exile because they're scared, or are wallowing in self pity. It's a tactical retreat.
At the end of ROTS, Yoda and Obi agree to go into hiding until the time was right. There was nothing the 2 of them alone could do against Palpatine and his new empire.

Luke just gave the fuck up. There was no plan. He was okay with letting his own flesh and blood turn to the darkside and then kill countless innocents, as well as his own twin sister and best friend.
I could buy a story about a weary hero tired of being a hero, but giving up on your family? Force, or no Force power, I'm not going to let my sister get murdered while I drink tit milk from a walrus alone on an island like a weirdo, but someone with the power of Luke does?

Thanks, but if that is the case we have to go back to TFA and JJ and George who put Luke on the island. Johnson is working off that premise.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Thanks, but if that is the case we have to go back to TFA and JJ and George who put Luke on the island. Johnson is working off that premise.

I didn't like TFA, but just because JJ put Luke there, that didn't mean Rian had to keep him there. The story JJ set up in TFA didn't stop Rian from tearing it down and doing his own thing.
There was plenty of plausible and interesting ways he could have explained why Luke was on the island by himself, or even if he was wallowing in self pity, give him a way to redeem himself.
And, no, him astral projecting himself at the end doesn't cut it for a character like Luke.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Honestly though I tend to think people went far too easy on TFA, the idea that it only needed to be a fun diversion after the prequels ignored that actually it was introducing an entire trilogy of films both building the setting/characters and setting the tone.

I would say as well people gave ABrams far too much credit in terms of thinking he had answers planned out to the mysteries he introduced, those who said this was lost 2.0 were proven correct.

How were they proven correct?
I didn't like TFA, but I had questions at the end. There was a range of directions the story and characters could have gone. Even if Abrams hadn't had a trilogy mapped out in detail, there was at least plenty of room for him to come up with something interesting with the ground work he set. He didn't write himself into a foxhole.
I also find it kind of hard to believe that Abram would have no idea where he wanted the story to go. Comparing a TV show, especially one like Lost, to a big franchise like SW doesn't make sense. There is nomway he would get away with making some big, ambiguous ending to a reboot SW trilogy, there's too much on the line, and too many studio people to please for that to have happened

I agreed with your first paragraph tho

 

[TrueBias]

I agree but what does being white have to do with anything?

Havent you heard? Its the new IN thing.

 

[TrueBias]

Or maybe both films just sucked? Star Wars is easily the most overrated franchise of all time

ok you can just leave.

 

[TrueBias]

Attack of the Clones is the only one where I can't find a single redeeming quality. The only one that even comes close is that Ewan knew he was making a piece of shit and had some fun with it. Jango Fett's battle - It's not exactly suspenseful knowing it had no consequences. It's not like Jango stood a chance. Dooku vs Obi/Anakin was just dumb. The tone of the fight was all off. It looked bad. The setting was terrible. Dooku vs Yoda - You mean tornado Yoda? RUFK. That was God awful.

The worst part was the battle at the Genosis arena. It looked terrible. Samuel L Jackson is about as athletic as a pineapple. It ruined any mystery with the Jedi Knights. Those extras that played Jedi sucked. Portman was at her most bangable. That's the only good thing about it.

Tornado Yoda > Mary Sue

Fuck, i cant believe there is a comparison.

It was goofy, but they tried. They fucking tried.

 

[ChucksGlassJaw]

Tornado Yoda > Mary Sue

Fuck, i cant believe there is a comparison.

It was goofy, but they tried. They fucking tried.

I never compared Tornado Yoda to Rey. They both fuckin suck.