STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

If you have seen STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI, how would you rate it?


  • Total voters
    587
Holy shit, it's what you've been waiting for!!

The response to Star Wars: The Last Jedi from "the fans" has been quite the story. While everyone's entitled to an opinion, many of the film's harshest critics have displayed staggering closed-mindedness when it comes to the film's attempts to do things differently. And anger plus closed-mindedness leads to some pretty silly actions.


Case in point: a fan edit has already emerged, built exclusively from videotaped pirate footage. But it's no mere series of tweaks - dubbed “The De-Feminized Fanedit,” it’s made up of mostly misogynistic (but also racist) decisions from the worst type of fan, cutting the movie down to 46 minutes of mostly male characters shouting at each other:

star_wars_defeminized_description_1200_1122_81_s.jpg

star_wars_defeminized_credit_1200_624_s.png

The cast responds
 


I actually suspect this is part of the problem The Last Jedi had, on one level it wanted to be a new Empire Strikes Back that tried to redefine what Starwars could be but ultimately it didn't really change things much at all, perhaps because Disney/Abrams didn't want them changed?

The problem for example with Luke just giving up and living on his island for example. The obvious alternative to that is that Luke really has gained some wisdom from the ancient jedi texts and his own soul searching. The most obvious direction to me would seem to be some kind of view of the force were negative emotions and the darkside are acknowledged more yet this would potentially upset the existing Jedi/Sith situation.

Equally the Rey/Kylo plot which was I think by far the best aspect of this film would also have potentially upset things if it was followed though on. If Rey either joins him or at least doesn't outright reject it then your also potentially meddling with the Jedi/Sith setup with the potential for these two characters to inhabit some kind of middle ground.

Honestly I think this was a significant problem the prequels had as well. If your going to shift your films focus towards characters like Anakin and Kylo then you need a more nuanced view of such characters. In the OT this wasn't an issue because it was Luke's character who was the dynamic focus and we got a more nuanced view of the "light side" to give it depth. Anakin flipping between heroic and "dark" like a switch just didn't work for me, didn't feel believable as a character, just making him a bit arrogant/petulant wasn't nearly enough.
I think you're letting preconceived notions get the better of you. For one thing, the more I think about it the more I think drawing connections between LJ and EMPIRE are spurious at best -- given how much you are faulting LJ in the comparisons, and between the OT and Prequels as well.

I understand why, because we must know the path we've come from to know the path we're on and where it's going, but I feel many of us are missing the forest for the trees doing this.

In regards to Rey's power I do have a problem with her. What we know from Rey in this movie assuming they aren't lying to us is that her parents were nobodies. So Rey somehow has a lot of force power that she receives for no particular reason at all. Her character does not learn how to use the force through a logical story telling arc like Luke did in the originals. She just receives all this power like a dragon ball Z character might. How is she just as powerful if not more powerful than Kylo Ren who was trained and studied using the force for many years?
Who says either of them are all that powerful?

Here's the problem with STAR WARS: it has to exist on at least two levels -- within the mythos and without the mythos. There is roughly forty years between EMPIRE and LAST JEDI, but awareness of the Force has trended in opposite directions. On our side, the Force has become more popular. Not just in our imaginations, but also through sophisticated cinematic language. Back in the 80s, it was inconceivable to pull off some of the special effects we now take for granted in film. On our side, our familiarity with the Force JUMPED UP with the Prequels, where the Force was no longer an outdated religion but EVERYWHERE. Further, Industrial Light and Magic DEFINED CGI during this time -- so the combination of Force, CGI, and the powers of Lucas are in FULL SWING.

TFA/TLJ's problem is WITHIN the mythos, in that in the forty years since the events of EMPIRE the Force has gone the opposite way -- so: how can find a balance between polarities? Rey establishes the Force as near MYTH in TFA, so the idea of power levels WITHIN the film is not the same as WITHOUT the film.

And rather than watch the events of the film, which predicates itself on the mythos within the fiction, as well as it tries to concede to a more sophisticated and opinionated audience, people denigrate the film for not being ... how did you put it?

a fun and awesome way that fans want to see
While this may be hard for you and the detractors believe: the filmmakers honestly believed that this was it. That what occurred was fun and awesome and yes, they fell short of what you expected but what you expected honestly you don't even know. No one has described it in any other terms than what they did not care for. And there's nothing wrong with that either, because it's fucking impossible to figure out something that works for everyone.
 
As you fair-weather fans strive for rebuttal, or simply just walk away, here's some easier food for your thought:

26903918_1765469830424335_1582542195466531972_n.jpg


And no. No laser swords are in play.
 
Here's where you and I are nearly diametrically opposed, because I don't feel there were many threads built up in FA and LJ had the monumental task of creating a context for some painted-in corners, chiefly Luke's exile.

I feel there wasn't much more that could have been done with the character -- the ideas I've seen suggested are either predictable redundancies from earlier films (training sequences/badass lightsaber fights) or overlooking the events in FA (Force Ghost).

THE LAST JEDI added story to a blank FA Luke from (FA here stands for FuckAll). Ergo, TLJ is the film that had no choice and the next film is thie one with infinite choice. Now it's left to Abrams to do something we're all pretty sure he can't do: which is present his mystery box AND show you something good inside.


And I pretty much disagree with everything you said. Its been mentioned before but the whole first movie is about finding Luke with the map he left and your fine with saying "He probably changed his mind or something". So, on one hand I can understand that maybe people who dislike the movie go a bit overboard with the criticisms. But I also think it's fair to say that the defenders go pretty far out of their way to defend aspects of the movie that are poorly done.

I mean, ive been over it several times but Luke feeling guilty for the events with Kylo is fine, so long as its sold within the narrative, and thats where Johnson failed for me. Kylo isnt a deep well of dark side, certainly not to the point where we're supposed to believe he scared the ever loving fuck out of the guy who looked Vader and Palpatine in the eye and practically said "Take away my only weapon and handcuff me. I'm still gonna win".

Therein lies much of the problem. You cant just tack on something else to the building someone else started. Maybe Abrams didnt make the sturdiest of foundations, but Johnson came in and kicked over all the corners and then built a toilet that doesnt flush. So now Abrams has to come in and rebuild all the corners around this toilet that doesnt even work.

I do think Abrams and his "mysteries" thing is very much to do with Lost, which he didnt have a big hand in. Alias as well, but Alias may have had some pretty crazy twists and all, but many of them were pretty cool. He probably relied on the "blow your mind WTF is happening" angle a little too much, but that was also a very long time ago and if memory serves it was his first big break as far as being the guy in charge.
 
you fair-weather fans

I don't know, man. The movie made me sad. Not angry, just sad. It's actually a pretty profound sorrow.

Is it OK that this wasn't the Star Wars movie I wanted, and I wish it hadn't broken type?
 
And I pretty much disagree with everything you said.

I mean, ive been over it several times but Luke feeling guilty for the events with Kylo is fine, so long as its sold within the narrative, and thats where Johnson failed for me. Kylo isnt a deep well of dark side, certainly not to the point where we're supposed to believe he scared the ever loving fuck out of the guy who looked Vader and Palpatine in the eye and practically said "Take away my only weapon and handcuff me. I'm still gonna win".
I hate that Luke basically explains this, in words, and people don't seem to like it. Like, the people who want explanations for Rey and Snoke -- they want it in words. Now, I realize what you're saying is the LJ words are insufficient but there is nowhere else to go with this Abrams box. And I've tried pulling alternatives out of people, believe me. I remain ever hopeful, though.

Therein lies much of the problem. You cant just tack on something else to the building someone else started. Maybe Abrams didnt make the sturdiest of foundations, but Johnson came in and kicked over all the corners and then built a toilet that doesnt flush. So now Abrams has to come in and rebuild all the corners around this toilet that doesnt even work.

I do think Abrams and his "mysteries" thing is very much to do with Lost, which he didnt have a big hand in. Alias as well, but Alias may have had some pretty crazy twists and all, but many of them were pretty cool. He probably relied on the "blow your mind WTF is happening" angle a little too much, but that was also a very long time ago and if memory serves it was his first big break as far as being the guy in charge.
He belongs in television, issuing forth memos calling for "the big ideas" and then farming out the actual work to the day-players.

But your analogy doesn't work for me because Abrams needs to rebuild nothing. There's no slack he needs to account for. He just has his characters in position to do anything he wants, and each of them are more cemented in their presentations than before. All this wobbly nonsense about Luke? Abrams has ZERO responsibility in making up for it; very much the opposite: as he is now we're free to do ANYTHING with Luke.
I don't know, man. The movie made me sad. Not angry, just sad. It's actually a pretty profound sorrow.

Is it OK that this wasn't the Star Wars movie I wanted, and I wish it hadn't broken type?
You and I both know that only our true feelings matter, and that someone else's words cannot paint over them.
 
No tears. Just no real interest in watching it again, nor the 9th. And that's ok.
 
You and I both know that only our true feelings matter, and that someone else's words cannot paint over them.

You know, when I walked out of Revenge of the Sith, I had really enjoyed it. There were some terrible moments but there was also a lot of awesome. Problem is, the friend I was with hated it, and only wanted to talk about the stuff he hated. The car ride home was miserable.
 
You know, when I walked out of Revenge of the Sith, I had really enjoyed it. There were some terrible moments but there was also a lot of awesome. Problem is, the friend I was with hated it, and only wanted to talk about the stuff he hated. The car ride home was miserable.

The original trilogy was weird for me too - there were parts I liked, parts I liked less.
 
No tears. Just no real interest in watching it again, nor the 9th. And that's ok.

I'm going to watch it again. Maybe lowered expectations will do the trick.

I'll definitely watch the ninth. I'm curious to see how this wraps up.
 
I'm going to watch it again. Maybe lowered expectations will do the trick.

I'll definitely watch the ninth. I'm curious to see how this wraps up.

to clarify, not watching in the theater. it'll be on netflix soon enough, like TFA and R1
 
The original trilogy was weird for me too - there were parts I liked, parts I liked less.

I thought the first two were pure, unadulterated awesome, and Lucas sold out with the third. There were some fantastic scenes, but it felt like the first revisited, and there was quite a bit of garbage.
 
You know, when I walked out of Revenge of the Sith, I had really enjoyed it. There were some terrible moments but there was also a lot of awesome. Problem is, the friend I was with hated it, and only wanted to talk about the stuff he hated. The car ride home was miserable.
I feel for you because in my REVENGE story I am your friend. My friend had to drag me to it. I wanted to like PHANTOM in the theater but grew over time to hate it, and CLONES I loathed. My friend swore to me Lucas pulls it out for REVENGE but by that time I feel like I was like some of the LJ detractors are now: simply resistant.


not if it means I have to read how much you didn't like JJ, i won't.

:p:p:p
Here's the thing: I really thought THE FORCE AWAKENS was gonna be a slam-dunk. No way Abrams is gonna fumble the ball, but he used up all his STAR WARS ideas in STAR TREK. I couldn't believe how incredibly wasted the entire story is. As a "let's see the gang all come together story?" It's perfect (perfectly TELEVISION, too), but it is at odds with its opening crawl and its closing images, which are about Luke while NONE OF THE REST OF THE FILM IS.
 
The WHOLE movie was about finding Luke. All the subplots revolved around getting that map back to the rebels.
 
Back
Top