STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[DrBdan]

Really? Some (or most, or all) of the porgs were real life puffins that were cgi’d Over? That’s hilarious.

<45>

Yup

http://www.starwars.com/news/designing-star-wars-the-last-jedi-part-1-how-porgs-were-hatched

From what I gathered, Rian [Johnson] had gone to shoot this sequence on Skellig Michael, which is the real island location that stands in for Ahch-To, and that island is covered in puffins. It’s a wildlife preserve and everywhere you look there are hundreds of birds dotted around the landscape. From what I gathered, Rian, in a positive spin on this, was looking at how can he work with this. You can’t remove them. You physically can’t get rid of them. And digitally removing them is an issue and a lot of work, so let’s just roll with it, play with it. And so I think he thought, “Well, that’s great, let’s have our own indigenous species.”

 

[minute bull]

I'd have no problem with every Starwars film having a female lead if they were well written as in Rogue One.

What are your favorite characteristics and moments with Jyn Erso?

 

[SammyPops]

Went to the imax over the holidays and was meh.

A couple main complaints:
1. just too much useless, unnecessary action that went nowhere
2. way too many death close calls. got old fast.
3. Still think Ben Solo is a big puss, he is no vador. Fucking failure as a sith.
4. Luke as a hologram .... not sure if I missed some jedi thing here but wtf? Also, Luke contimplating killing his student ...... fuck that.
5. Fuck Leah! She should have went down with the last cruiser.

 

[Amerikuracana]

I would have loved that. I enjoyed the movie just fine the way it was but seeing her go dark would have been great. Although there would need to be a little more buildup to her making that kind of turn. Perhaps her saying something like "I know I can get through to you" and choosing to stick with Kylo and slowly losing her morals to all the temptations of power and greed during another movie. I can't see her killing off the remains of the rebellion though. That would be too far too quick. The purpose of this movie was to remove Mark Hamill from the story IMO. Disney didn't want him around. This was a "cleaning house" kind of situation...

They should have shown that the "empire" did not have to be the bad guy. They were on the edge of that, creating a grey area that actually would have been interesting, but they failed. If kylo ends the Sith and the Jedi, and leads peacefully, the resistance are just fruitcake terrorists lol.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Speaking of hot, as I said in my review I know this is shallow but I wished Rose switched roles with her much hotter sister Paige.

Me so horny! Love her long time!

 

[Deleted member 110072]

What are your favorite characteristics and moments with Jyn Erso?

Actually some arc from being a cynical loner to committing to the cause by the end of the film by way of several well done dramatic climaxs rather than just showing competence beating badguys.

 

[FyrFytr998]

What are your favorite characteristics and moments with Jyn Erso?

Jyn Erso unfolded a lot like Luke minus the Jedi stuff. Discovering a cause greater than herself. Rogue one turning out so good leaves me with hope that the Solo movie might pull it off if people go in knowing the guy won’t pull off a perfect Han.

 

[cabear]

Watched it again on a date. She loved it, I just went for the popcorn. Star wars was cool but I dunno what this movie was, but I do know it wasn't for me.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Jyn Erso unfolded a lot like Luke minus the Jedi stuff. Discovering a cause greater than herself. Rogue one turning out so good leaves me with hope that the Solo movie might pull it off if people go in knowing the guy won’t pull off a perfect Han.

A mix of Luke and Han I would say, really it did show to me that stranght of the originals wasn't just having Jedi onscreen(as we saw with the prequels) but rather decent characters.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Han Solo film, to me it looked like Disney kept a much more hands off approach with Rogue One no throwing in pro's for toys as in the saga sequels so many they will do the same here? Howard isn't really the most inspirating director to me relative to Edwards so I wouldn't expect the film to look as good but honestly I was kind of fearing Lord/Miller taking it too far down the road of comedy so the combination of their earlier work and him playing it straighter might end up as a decent mix.

 

[minute bull]

Actually some arc from being a cynical loner to committing to the cause by the end of the film by way of several well done dramatic climaxs rather than just showing competence beating badguys.

A mix of Luke and Han I would say, really it did show to me that stranght of the originals wasn't just having Jedi onscreen(as we saw with the prequels) but rather decent characters.

Jyn Erso unfolded a lot like Luke minus the Jedi stuff. Discovering a cause greater than herself.

I think ROGUE ONE had a very easy job, due to its familiar plot and trappings -- not to mention, most importantly, getting to use Darth Vader (who is, without a doubt, the main character of STAR WARS). With so much exposition already lined up for it, ROGUE ONE was free to explore more character moments, especially since none were meant to last.

I am still puzzled by what I'm hearing, but I might be mistaken. It sounds like you guys like Jyn because she's a lot like Luke, or Han. But I think you're referring more to the twists and turns she overcomes, rather than her personality. Personally I wasn't really all that impressed with Jyn, even though I really like ROGUE ONE. I never got that she wasn't committed to a cause; maybe I'm overlooking some element of resistance from that scene when Mon Mothma convinces her to go to Bodhi/Saw. Maybe there was a crucial moment when Cassian argues he could have killed her father but didn't.

As I recall she was always willing, and willing to keep going. I never got the sense she'd ever cut and run, and the only resistance she exhibited was either focused on her issues of abandonment or against the Rebellion's own passivity.

She was like all the other characters, who were decent people but ... well, rogues in their own way. While they do find it in themselves to commit to the central tragic cause, I never really doubted their resolve. The closest was Baze who started chanting "The Force is with me, I am one with the Force" after spending the entire film denigrating Chirrut for it.

When it comes to Rey, and definitely with Luke, I agree with moreorless87 TLJ had some tough ground to make up due to TFA. It wasn't TLJ who set Luke up to be missing for decades. TLJ was left to answer two things (among many): Not just a good explanation why Luke Skywalker of all people would hide away for so long but also an equally good reason to return from self-exile. If someone can come up with something better than what went down, I'd really like to hear it. I won't hold my breath though. It's not easy coming up with a good reason a character goes against type, and then an even better reason for the character to return. Case in point: not many bought the joke scene with Luke tossing the lightsaber away. Mainly because we know our avatar for STAR WARS isn't going to rid himself of his symbolic weapon. It was too against type, and thus we realize it was done only for the joke of it. And some people were like "No way. " Not even one smile.

The suggestion that Rey should have closed this film with more ambiguity seems to overlook that throughout the movie Rey was conflicted. The entire time her path was ambiguous. She had the wrong idea about the Force, self-doubt, a yearning for answers, a penchant for darkness, she went from hair-trigger fight mode to empathizing with Kylo, from believing in the legend of Luke to risking herself to the dark side when his answers prove insufficient, to being ensnared inside a trap and when she comes out of it you think there's a new order in town (but nope -- which, btw, ends in a draw not Kylo's defeat), to finding it inside herself to carry on the Jedi principles without the contradictory strictures. While yes Rey starts off positive and ends positive, she was in the movie Changed through finding her voice and making her own decisions. And unlike Jyn, we don't know where she's going to go -- which makes her path more potentially exciting.

In case you're wondering about Finn's development -- Finn is a character who is inherently questionable. Not only is he formerly Empire he has a habit of doing his own thing (which often means leaving). The path of his narrative will be about going back and forth from the expectation he will succumb to weakness (I have to get out of here, so my friend has someone to come back to) to the realization he's made of steely resolve (Correction: "Rebel Scum"). Throughout the course of TFA he cements his commitment to the Rebellion but his epiphany (the twist) is that dying for the cause is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[minute bull]

See that’s what I’m saying. That time could be used to watch a better made movie like Shape of Water.

I like how she's slowly crouching down to emphasize how tall he is.

I liked THE SHAPE OF WATER, but not as much as THE LAST JEDI.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I think ROGUE ONE had a very easy job, due to its familiar plot and trappings -- not to mention, most importantly, getting to use Darth Vader (who is, without a doubt, the main character of STAR WARS). With so much exposition already lined up for it, ROGUE ONE was free to explore more character moments, especially since none were meant to last.

I am still puzzled by what I'm hearing, but I might be mistaken. It sounds like you guys like Jyn because she's a lot like Luke, or Han. But I think you're referring more to the twists and turns she overcomes, rather than her personality. Personally I wasn't really all that impressed with Jyn, even though I really like ROGUE ONE. I never got that she wasn't committed to a cause; maybe I'm overlooking some element of resistance from that scene when Mon Mothma convinces her to go to Bodhi/Saw. Maybe there was a crucial moment when Cassian argues he could have killed her father but didn't.

As I recall she was always willing, and willing to keep going. I never got the sense she'd ever cut and run, and the only resistance she exhibited was either focused on her issues of abandonment or against the Rebellion's own passivity.

She was like all the other characters, who were decent people but ... well, rogues in their own way. While they do find it in themselves to commit to the central tragic cause, I never really doubted their resolve. The closest was Baze who started chanting "The Force is with me, I am one with the Force" after spending the entire film denigrating Chirrut for it.

When it comes to Rey, and definitely with Luke, I agree with moreorless87 TLJ had some tough ground to make up due to TFA. It wasn't TLJ who set Luke up to be missing for decades. TLJ was left to answer two things (among many): Not just a good explanation why Luke Skywalker of all people would hide away for so long but also an equally good reason to return from self-exile. If someone can come up with something better than what went down, I'd really like to hear it. I won't hold my breath though. It's not easy coming up with a good reason a character goes against type, and then an even better reason for the character to return. Case in point: not many bought the joke scene with Luke tossing the lightsaber away. Mainly because we know our avatar for STAR WARS isn't going to rid himself of his symbolic weapon. It was too against type, and thus we realize it was done only for the joke of it. And some people were like "No way. " Not even one smile.

The suggestion that Rey should have closed this film with more ambiguity seems to overlook that throughout the movie Rey was conflicted. The entire time her path was ambiguous. She had the wrong idea about the Force, self-doubt, a yearning for answers, a penchant for darkness, she went from hair-trigger fight mode to empathizing with Kylo, from believing in the legend of Luke to risking herself to the dark side when his answers prove insufficient, to being ensnared inside a trap and when she comes out of it you think there's a new order in town (but nope -- which, btw, ends in a draw not Kylo's defeat), to finding it inside herself to carry on the Jedi principles without the contradictory strictures. While yes Rey starts off positive and ends positive, she was in the movie Changed through finding her voice and making her own decisions. And unlike Jyn, we don't know where she's going to go -- which makes her path more potentially exciting.

In case you're wondering about Finn's development -- Finn is a character who is inherently questionable. Not only is he formerly Empire he has a habit of doing his own thing (which often means leaving). The path of his narrative will be about going back and forth from the expectation he will succumb to weakness (I have to get out of here, so my friend has someone to come back to) to the realization he's made of steely resolve (Correction: "Rebel Scum"). Throughout the course of TFA he cements his commitment to the Rebellion but his epiphany (the twist) is that dying for the cause is the wrong way to go about it.

Rogue One's main advantage I would say is that it could introduce(and then killed off) a fresh set of characters who could be written to tell there own story as effectively as possible. Actually being quite sparse in terms of exposition depending on the audience to fill in the gaps is really a mark of the original films to me.

The Jyn character is not a direct lift from either Luke or Han I'd agree even if she contained elements of both. I'd say your dealing with a character who is more disillusioned than morally questionable, who's been hurt by previous attachment to the rebel cause and now has the view that an individual really cannot achieve anything against the threat of the empire, all you can do is look to keep your head down.

The way the character(and much of the film) is played to me was also very refreshing. I mean I enjoy the better Marvel films as much as the next person and playing those roles well does take actors with presense/character but there is clearly a lack of anything a bit more subtle in blockbusters these days. To me a lot of the style of the original Starwars actually seems to have been overlooked in recent years in favour of thinking it was all one lingers of constant high drama when actually much of it was quite gritty and down to earth, a kind of middle ground between the new wave and the blockbuster era of the 80's. To see Starwars actually show a more subtle hand again with performances played in a more restrained fashion and often left to expression rather than dialog was very welcome to see.

I would definitely agree with you that TFA passed down a lot of problems to TLJ in terms of character both for Rey and for Luke(plus in both setting and tone). In his case the inactive isolation and in hers a lack of focus on motivation(her abandonment being most ignored after her introduction) or lack of confidence by the end. When she meets Luke she's clearly committed to the cause already to me the climax we get doesn't follow though enough on the uncertainly that's introduced(which is I think definitely the best part of the film) putting her back in that position by the end. Indeed Rey to me feels curiously side-lined after that section, reduced to a supporting role in the finale which has me wondering whether said finale was a Disney mandated addition to the script. That section as well to me seems to fall back to Abrams style throwing action/drama/climaxs at you so quickly you can't think.

Finn to me is a character who had potential on intro in TFA but was instead relegated to a rather clichéd comic sidekick who finds his courage. I think Boyega plays it relatively well for what it is but I never really get the sense of a character struggling with his background either personal or in terms of how others view him. This film to me just ended up rerunning pretty much the same comic sidekick finds his courage story we saw in TFA, still not bringing much depth to the character. The whole resistance plot to me is really just a bit of a mess where wheels turn and twists happen for the sake of it not going anywhere very interesting at all.

 

[minute bull]

Indeed Rey to me feels curiously side-lined after that section, reduced to a supporting role in the finale which has me wondering whether said finale was a Disney mandated addition to the script. That section as well to me seems to fall back to Abrams style throwing action/drama/climaxs at you so quickly you can't think.

To me that was because it's Fucking Luke Skywalker Time™.

Which is also why it isn't Admiral Ackbar who lightspeeds through the Empire. We would be arguing that Ackbar gets a better death than Luke, if this were the case; and besides the entire admiral staff was blown away at the beginning. The beauty of giving this to Holdo is somewhat akin to what the SJW-haters would say: it gives a woman a position of strength in this universe, but more importantly, you don't see it coming. With Ackbar, you'd be waiting for him to pull off something pivotal, but his time is done, he's already got arguably the most famous line from STAR WARS.

Finn to me is a character who had potential on intro in TFA but was instead relegated to a rather clichéd comic sidekick who finds his courage. I think Boyega plays it relatively well for what it is but I never really get the sense of a character struggling with his background either personal or in terms of how others view him. This film to me just ended up rerunning pretty much the same "comic sidekick finds his courage" story we saw in TFA, still not bringing much depth to the character.

I really love his delivery of the line, "Well that smelled great," as they exit the sewage pipe on Canto Bight.

Now here's a tough question, not just to you.

Raise your hands if you didn't like THE LAST JEDI because ain't no more good White dudes to identify with. Stand up and be counted.

 

[minute bull]

Just picked up the new Star Wars Saga Blu-Ray boxed set.

Over 40 hours of special features! Woo!

Shit was $89.99 though. Goddamn.

If you bought it through Amazon, now's the time to return it. I don't think you'll get a fee because everyone's doing X-mas gift returns. The reason I say that is the OT is going to be released in 4K in the spring, which will likely affect pricing throughout the line.

 

[Guestx]

If you bought it through Amazon, now's the time to return it. I don't think you'll get a fee because everyone's doing X-mas gift returns. The reason I say that is the OT is going to be released in 4K in the spring, which will likely affect pricing throughout the line.

I appreciate the heads up. But eh, it's all good. I didn't buy it through Amazon and I've already opened the shit and have started going through everything.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

To me that was because it's Fucking Luke Skywalker Time™.

Which is also why it isn't Admiral Ackbar who lightspeeds through the Empire. We would be arguing that Ackbar gets a better death than Luke, if this were the case; and besides the entire admiral staff was blown away at the beginning. The beauty of giving this to Holdo is somewhat akin to what the SJW-haters would say: it gives a woman a position of strength in this universe, but more importantly, you don't see it coming. With Ackbar, you'd be waiting for him to pull off something pivotal, but his time is done, he's already got arguably the most famous line from STAR WARS.

I think that kind of highlights the problem these sequels have, there both trying to pass the torch to the degree they belittle the original characters relative to Rey but ultimately end up failing back to them for their big climaxs.

The Holdo plot to me seemed like a classic example of cinema playing on gender politics in a rather cheap fashion. We don't really get either her or Poe's character defined enough for their conflict to have much weight to it and instead seems to highlight that were sposed to care about its a woman he's rebelling against which makes little sense given that she's taking over from Leia.

Looking back its sadly ironic that this plot would actually have been an amazing sendoff for Leia rather than presumably dying off screen between films.

really love his delivery of the line, "Well that smelled great," as they exit the sewage pipe on Canto Bight.

Now here's a tough question, not just to you.

Raise your hands if you didn't like THE LAST JEDI because ain't no more good White dudes to identify with. Stand up and be counted.

Yeah Boyega does I think make the role better than I could have been by being naturally likeble and having some personality to him but still I think he is given very little to work with.

Honestly being in my 30's the days of watching Starwars to pretend I'm a Jedi are well over, similarly superhero origin stories that play on power fantasy's I find much less interesting these days as well. Watching cinema on the back of an empathic connection doesn't need the character to be the same race or gender as me, honestly if anything I find that easier with female leads.

 

[minute bull]

I think that kind of highlights the problem these sequels have, there both trying to pass the torch to the degree they belittle the original characters relative to Rey but ultimately end up failing back to them for their big climaxs.

I understand antipathy for favorite characters propping up new characters, but I disagree anyone's been belittled. I think TLJ has been much more respectful to the characters and the fans than all the other films outside OT/ROGUE ONE.

The Holdo plot to me seemed like a classic example of cinema playing on gender politics in a rather cheap fashion. We don't really get either her or Poe's character defined enough for their conflict to have much weight to it and instead seems to highlight that were sposed to care about its a woman he's rebelling against which makes little sense given that she's taking over from Leia.

I feel that's short-shrifting Holdo.

Looking back its sadly ironic that this plot would actually have been an amazing sendoff for Leia rather than presumably dying off screen between films.

There's a fine line between paying tribute to someone's life and being perceived as ghoulish for exploiting someone's death. Look at how the life/death of FICTIONAL characters has sparked so much upheaval.

Honestly being in my 30's the days of watching Starwars to pretend I'm a Jedi are well over, similarly superhero origin stories that play on power fantasy's I find much less interesting these days as well. Watching cinema on the back of an empathic connection doesn't need the character to be the same race or gender as me, honestly if anything I find that easy with female leads.

Hah, the question was meant to be rhetorical/ribbing, but I never meant anything as conspicuous as dressing up and pretending. There's so much expectation for Luke because we identified with him for so long and imagined all the boundless adventures he must have gotten into (which is inflated by the influences of other films like MATRIX in which we begin to believe Jedi possess godly powers rather than extensions of their own various willpowers). Plus the push-back against the Disney-level diversification. It all combines to a funny sort of thought.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I understand antipathy for favorite characters propping up new characters, but I disagree anyone's been belittled. I think TLJ has been much more respectful to the characters and the fans than all the other films outside OT/ROGUE ONE.

I'd say you see both Han and now Luke robbed of very specific wisdom that we see them build up across the original trilogy and Rey show greater competence than both.

I feel that's short-shrifting Holdo.

Honestly I really don't, Derns a good actress of course but she's a nothing character who's buildup consists of a handful of curt exchanges with Poe who himself dispite Isaac's obvious ability stays as a similar kind of shallow character that which we saw in TFA. Neither have anything like the depth of motivation to them to make there fued carry much weight for meand indeed the fued itself seems far too simplistic and arbitrary ending up as "follow your superiors orders because they know better" which is rather ironic given Rogue Ones "you might as well be a storm trooper" plot last year.

There's a fine line between paying tribute to someone's life and being perceived as ghoulish for exploiting someone's death. Look at how the life/death of FICTIONAL characters has sparked so much upheaval.

Although really I felt that "space Leia" ended up feeling rather exploitative, obviously it was written before her death but it did kind of feel like it was playing on the idea that she might be retroactively killed off.

Hah, the question was meant to be rhetorical/ribbing, but I never meant anything as conspicuous as dressing up and pretending. There's so much expectation for Luke because we identified with him for so long and imagined all the boundless adventures he must have gotten into (which is inflated by the influences of other films like MATRIX in which we begin to believe Jedi possess godly powers rather than extensions of their own various willpowers). Plus the push-back against the Disney-level diversification. It all combines to a funny sort of thought.

Honestly as someone firmly on the liberial side I kind of think theres something cynical going on here that if anything damages the causes it claims to promote, disvertity as a sheld to criticism and provoking alt right nuckleheads for the sake of publicity.

There was definitely expectation with Luke but if you deside to revist a much loved character then that's what your going to face. A lot of the reaction against the film to me though comes more from the fashion way the characters story is told rather than the character not shown as being whiter than white. The Kylo reveal for example feels incredibly blunt to me coming from a character who risked his life to redeem his mass murdering father, deciding to kill his nephew in his sleep purely on a hunch at his future crimes really doesn't fit with that.[

 

[minute bull]

I'd say you see both Han and now Luke robbed of very specific wisdom that we see them build up across the original trilogy and Rey show greater competence than both.

Whaaaat? Han, who wasn't even in this, went from non-believer to:

I don't even know what you're on about re: Luke. Lost wisdom? Luke was so Luke Luke thought he should be called Jake because he wasn't ready for the Luke-itude of his own Lukeness. COME ON, SMALLS. YOU'RE KILLING ME.

Honestly I really don't, Derns a good actress of course but she's a nothing character who's buildup consists of a handful of curt exchanges with Poe who himself dispite Isaac's obvious ability stays as a similar kind of shallow character that which we saw in TFA. Neither have anything like the depth of motivation to them to make there fued carry much weight for meand indeed the fued itself seems far too simplistic and arbitrary ending up as "follow your superiors orders because they know better" which is rather ironic given Rogue Ones "you might as well be a storm trooper" plot last year.

I wanted more drama and action for that section too. Even came up with a wonky asteroid-field chase to shore up the entertainment level -- but I realized that whatever's happening with Poe and Finn needs to be in balance with what's happening to Rey. One plot line cannot rob the other's power.

Honestly as someone firmly on the liberial side I kind of think theres something cynical going on here that if anything damages the causes it claims to promote, disvertity as a sheld to criticism and provoking alt right nuckleheads for the sake of publicity.

Hah! Now you're getting into "That Rian Johnson purposefully trolled us!" territory.

Given the logistics of a film, I have to believe filmmakers are playing it honest and wanting to deliver the best film possible for maximum return. While there is money to be made in notoriety, I refuse to believe STAR WARS would take that route, no matter how evil I consider Disney to actually be. It's a much harder and riskier gamble to try to exploit the audience's ... well, dark side.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Whaaaat? Han, who wasn't even in this, went from non-believer to:

I don't even know what you're on about re: Luke. Lost wisdom? Luke was so Luke Luke thought he should be called Jake because he wasn't ready for the Luke-itude of his own Lukeness. COME ON, SMALLS. YOU'RE KILLING ME.

Honest it seems pretty obvious to me with both characters. Han during the originals shifts from a selfish smalltime criminal to someone who selflessly follows the cause only to shift back to a selfish smalltime criminal by the time of TFA. Luke starts the originals with a simplistic view of good and evil before becoming enlightened enough to try and reeedem his war criminal father only to regress to considering murdering his nephew in his sleep based on his potential to turn to the darkside.

I wanted more drama and action for that section too. Even came up with a wonky asteroid-field chase to shore up the entertainment level -- but I realized that whatever's happening with Poe and Finn needs to be in balance with what's happening to Rey. One plot line cannot rob the other's power.

I would say generally in this kind of film the reverse is true, various plot threads work most effectively when there rising and falling drama mirrors each other. Really a big problem for me is that the film simply puts too much on its plate and can't give it all the time it needs to be effective, it really feels like someone trying to tell two films worth of story in a single film.

Hah! Now you're getting into "That Rian Johnson purposefully trolled us!" territory.

Given the logistics of a film, I have to believe filmmakers are playing it honest and wanting to deliver the best film possible for maximum return. While there is money to be made in notoriety, I refuse to believe STAR WARS would take that route, no matter how evil I consider Disney to actually be. It's a much harder and riskier gamble to try to exploit the audience's ... well, dark side.

I'd say that's a very different argument, him deliberately confounding expectations for the sake of it compared to the film(certainly not alone in this for me) using politics somewhat as a shield. As far as the former goes no I wouldn't say he was doing it to the degree of "trolling" which seems to imply actively bad cinema but yeah I do think he was rather too taken with the idea of confounding expectations ala ESB rather than building towards his twists effectively.