STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[minute bull]

I think a problem a lot of people have with Rogue One personally is that we've gotten out of the habit of letting films grow on us.

Astute point. Also we need to respect that social media has allowed us to bear witness to such an evolution.

We're just slogging through this initial stage of denial, and with therapy I'm sure I will manage to cope.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Astute point. Also we need to respect that social media has allowed us to bear witness to such an evolution.

We're just slogging through this initial stage of denial, and with therapy I'm sure I will manage to cope.

It seems strangely ironic to me that alot of the defences of this film I'm reading come across as very similar to defences of the prequels dispite coming from people who often spent years deriding such defences of those films.

Last Jedi actually comes across as quite a similar kind of film to Revenge of the Sith for me, some interesting elements to it but so much that feels clunky and off tone as well.

 

[minute bull]

It seems strangely ironic to me that alot of the defences of this film I'm reading come across as very similar to defences of the prequels dispite coming from people who often spent years deriding such defences of those films.

What baffles me is this current love of the Prequels, personally. I don't know if I have it to rewatch them.

 

[Sanosuke]

But this Last Jedi is just bad it did not make want to watch the next starwars film

This is spot on. After ROTS what did I want to go watch? ANH. After Rogue One? ANH. After TFA? Pumped for TLJ. And now... don’t even care what happens in 9. The force is not strong.

 

[EvilDDS]

Yeah, for sure... I agree. Not everyone gets into the books like that. Perhaps a prequil about it all will be in order. Also to give us the Snoke backstory.

I didn't get to as many of the books as I intended too... but prior to watching TLJ, I went on a mission to learn about the first order & what's going on in the political structure of the galaxy... & got a nice bit of info from the Wookieepedia page on the First Order & also the page from The New Republic. It's quite a long read... but if you figure that it's a collection of information from about 10 or more different full Canon novels, it becomes much easier to sit for an hour or so & take it all in.

All good points. And I know not all senators were on Hosnian Prime, although I can't think of the exact source at the moment, but I did read many were not there, including some who may have been double agents for the First Order and were privy to info of an impending attack

Also, with regards to Leia, an interesting book is Bloodline. It takes place 6 years prior to the Force Awakens. Initially I thought it would be a boring book, discussing more of the politics and background but it was actually pretty damn good. It's in this book, that she gets double-crossed by another senate member into revealing that Darth Vader was her father. She had always kept it a secret, as everyone believed her to be the daughter of Bail Organa, who was so highly respected. As opposed to Vader who did years and years of horrible things to different worlds. She had also kept it a secret from Ben Solo as well. Leia was being groomed into a high position, and then after that, she left the senate, and went on to form the resistance for the reasons you mentioned

 

[Bob Gray]

Guys you have to appreciate what a tough spot rian Johnson was in when it comes to handling Luke.

Everyone was expecting him to fly in and wipe out the entire fleet of walkers with a wave of his hand.

But if he did that, it would undermine the power of the first order... Or the empire, or any army for that matter. Because why raise an army if a Jedi can wipe them out with a thought?

Then audiences will wonder why Luke doesn't just wipe out the entire first order in one day, since it's so easy.

Unfortunately, the EU, and games like the force unleashed have given people this idea that you can become so powerful with the force that you can bring down star destroyers with a flick of the wrist.

So if someone can do that, then surely Luke can. But if we show Luke doing that, then how the hell would he die? Kylo is no threat to him. Any type of death you give Luke would seem dumb, because nobody should be strong enough to kill a guy that can wipe out a fleet in 2 seconds.

Rian HAD to somehow stop the power creep and make Luke weaker, not stronger.

I didnt expect any of that to happen, and Luke coming in and eating all the lasers from the entire squad was the first step of me being "Well, thats one more thing you fucked up.". Of course, the astral projection reveal was amazing.

It's common for people to try to put others disagreeing with them on the furthest end of the opposite spectrum as they can, but its mostly straw manning.

I mean, honestly, I dont see many people saying "Luke should have come in and destroyed the entire army" or anything. And, in my completely anecdotal experience, most are more than happy with the astral projection gambit. But not with the completely arbitrary notion that it somehow kills arguably the most powerful user ever known and doing it in the same movie that Snoke is connecting two people across the galaxy so they can see each other and practically shake hands while he seems perfectly fine.

This seems to be an underlying pattern to many of the complaints. It's now what they do, but how they do it. I think most would agree that as far as imagery goes, Lukes death was fantastic. Looking at the twin suns was a perfect last vision. They just fucked up the execution.

I'm not mad at all that Luke died. I'm disappointed that they couldnt make me sad about it.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

My biggest problem with TLJ is it felt there was zero respect/collaoration coming off TFA.

Every question posed by TFA was either ignored, dropped or made to be a joke. They also did things with the Force that don't feel like canon.

It seems Rian Johnson just went out to make a stand alone movie and that's not what you need in a trilogy series. If he was going to do that, give him a side movie like Solo. He basically ruined what TFA set up and JJ has his hands full to wrap everything up in 9.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

What baffles me is this current love of the Prequels, personally. I don't know if I have it to rewatch them.

I'm on the side of neither myself, I think the originals and Rogue One are significantly better than any of the other Starwars films.

 

[vcmmafan]

Every site I've been to including RT and here show the majority of people enjoyed the flick with a handful of very vocal people that didn't enjoy the movie and have every intention of making sure the world (or who ever will listen) knows. That's what I see. RT is the worst of the bunch for negative reviews and it's still at 52% in favour of the flick.

I'm not here to argue that you or anyone else that disliked it shouldn't have. To each their own but comments like yours show just how dramatic the people that dislike it are.

146,265 Rotten Tomatoes Users gave it an average of 6.4/10
300 RT Critics Gave it an average of 8.1/10

196,506 IMDB Users gave it an average of 7.7

The reviews are fairly accurate.

IMO it's an okay movie. Nothing great. At best I'd give it a 7.0 but my initial reaction was more like around a 6/10. Just my opinion.

 

[WAR_CLAY_GUIDA!!]

I'm on the side of neither myself, I think the originals and Rogue One are significantly better than any of the other Starwars films.

I turn to the originals anytime i want my star wars fix. Every now and then i'll pop in a prequel for background noise. Even the force awakens get some play here and there. But it might take me months before i give episode 8 another go.

 

[Capt Lunatic]

JJ Abrams created a bunch of storylines that have no payoff?

 

[HeroesNeverTap]

Are the Knights of Ren going to be a thing still? If so, I could see the next Star Wars play out like the last Matrix movie. The KoR, led my Kylo, could serve the role of Agent Smith with a goal of destroying both the First Order and the Resistance. The last thing they need to complete their squad and achieve their goal is another powerful force user - Rey.

 

[Hogey]

Are the Knights of Ren going to be a thing still? If so, I could see the next Star Wars play out like the last Matrix movie. The KoR, led my Kylo, could serve the role of Agent Smith with a goal of destroying both the First Order and the Resistance. The last thing they need to complete their squad and achieve their goal is another powerful force user - Rey.

Could snookers royal guard been the knights of ren?

They all had crazy different weapons like the knights of ren

 

[milliniar]

Could snookers royal guard been the knights of ren?

They all had crazy different weapons like the knights of ren

They are officially the praetorian guards

 

[Guestx]

Its still absolutely bizarre. If were playing the numbers game, it should NOT be difficult to find multiple 10/10 user reviews. I mean, youre showing it via bar graph right there.

I guess im not being clear....
Whether its a rating, a bar graph, or even a pie graph, i simply do NOT buy it.

Shit, if Pubmed published an article about sugar being bad, and 70% of scientists confirmed it to be true, then its true right? Well, lets say i dont understanf why sugar is bad, so i read their tests, but i cant find ONE. Now, how plausible, or more put, truthful are those tests?

You and a handful in here are defending your love for this shit sandwich, but me..and a handful are bashing it. Now, while were going at it, you got some other peeps chiming in here and there. Guess what, most of them arent praising this movie.

Im skeptical of IMDB.
BTW, RT is now at 52%.

I just don't get why you're so skeptical. Is the Sherdog poll also manipulated? Did the CinemaScore people cook the books?

It seems obvious to me what's going on:

There are people out there who didn't like the movie and they're being loud as hell. But there are more people who DID like it. But a lot of the people who did like it don't feel the need to fight about it. They went to the movies, enjoyed it, and now they're moving on

Like I said earlier, they're the silent majority. And then we have a very loud minority banging on pans and trying to get attention.

I just don't get why it's so inconceivable to you that more people than not might not see it your way on this one.

BTW, I'll also point out that even a 52% RT score indicates that still MORE THAN HALF of audience responders turned in a positive review.

 

[HeroesNeverTap]

Could snookers royal guard been the knights of ren?

They all had crazy different weapons like the knights of ren

That would make sense, but unless they are explicitly mentioned I guess they could still be elsewhere. I think it would be good for the next film to have them as a way to introduce other force users. Also a way to have more scenes like the early scene in TFA, the attach on the village.

 

[shockaholic12]

I don't think this was really the issue for most people and if anything Luke becomes more powerful than previously with the ability to project across the entire galaxy.

The force use of the OT never really gave the indication that one person could destroy entire armies head on, rather it gave the impression that the strength of force users came from there ability to use there powers judiciously more behind the scenes to manipulate events, hence ultimately having a bigger impact than super weapons like the Death Star.

The problem I think is much more Luke's character who seems to have regressed in terms of wisdom, bravey, etc in a similar fashion to Han in TFA. It could have been down to Disney meddling not wanting to change the status quo too much but whats lacking in this film is a purpose for Luke's isolation beyond just running from his problems(such as developing new methods of training/philosophy beyond the traditional Jedi). You can see with Obi Wan in the originals that failure with Vader had bred wisdom and that he'd not given up the fight watching over Luke and coming to the Rebels help when called on.

This to me actually makes the twist about Kylo less impactful, Luke in TLJ is so flawed relative to the OT its really not supprising where as again if this was a dark secret that pushed him to wisdom but comes back to haught his new student it would be a lot more impactful.

While Luke running away from it all for so long does seem like a disappointing choice for him to make, him being such an idealistic alter boy when it comes to the force in the OT help it make sense. The balance swung towards the dark side when he thought his “mastery” alone was enough to not allow that. The fallout was brutal and he became as jaded as he had been idealistic.

 

[Bob Gray]

While Luke running away from it all for so long does seem like a disappointing choice for him to make, him being such an idealistic alter boy when it comes to the force in the OT help it make sense. The balance swung towards the dark side when he thought his “mastery” alone was enough to not allow that. The fallout was brutal and he became as jaded as he had been idealistic.

It'd be easier to accept if he had no ties. As it is, he knew there was a powerful dark force user in Snoke that was manipulating Kylo into the dark side. So when they have the altercation, Luke just bounces and lets the dark jedi further corrupt his nephew even more, and basically allow his sister and friends to be put in danger. It's one thing for him to say "The jedi have to die", its another to say "im pretty much going to allow my sister and friends to be put on a perilous path against a couple of dark jedis."

 

[vcmmafan]

BTW, I'll also point out that even a 52% RT score indicates that still MORE THAN HALF of audience responders turned in a positive review.

Too be fair that just means 52% of users gave the movie at least a 6/10

And it turns out the user average is 6.4 as a whole

 

[TrueBias]

I just don't get why you're so skeptical. Is the Sherdog poll also manipulated? Did the CinemaScore people cook the books?

It seems obvious to me what's going on:

There are people out there who didn't like the movie and they're being loud as hell. But there are more people who DID like it. But a lot of the people who did like it don't feel the need to fight about it. They went to the movies, enjoyed it, and now they're moving on

Like I said earlier, they're the silent majority. And then we have a very loud minority banging on pans and trying to get attention.

I just don't get why it's so inconceivable to you that more people than not might not see it your way on this one.

BTW, I'll also point out that even a 52% RT score indicates that still MORE THAN HALF of audience responders turned in a positive review.

shadow thats a big drop for a movie that came out 10 days ago