STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Aegon Spengler]

Last Jedi seems to have dropped by “77%” in ticket sales.

They shouldn’t have killed Luke. But studios have no interest in promoting or propping up Mark Hamill.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

the New Republic and all its fleet is then swept away in one scene.

I'm not so sure the New Republic was as critically damaged as it may seem at first glance. The role of the resistance was to do the dirty work that needed to be done ASAP that the New Republic couldn't agree on. Their force is now very low.... but they are very far from being the only resistance out there.

One of the main objectives of the New Republic was to "NOT" have a centralized army... in fear of another Palpatine situation corrupting the army. So therefore the fleet of the new republic was spread out across every planet that participated in the new democracy that has been forming for 30 years. I don't doubt they had "some" of their fleet on those planets... but it's far from the entire fleet of the new Republic.

A central army was so taboo that the resistance had to be dispatched & communicated to in secret. They were not official representatives of the New Republic. The official army of the new republic existed as all the participating planets offering their troops & resources as needed. There was no one big central army or fleet.

Also, I read something where someone said that all the senator's were killed. I don't recall any information that they were all there. For maximum casualties the First Order would've attacked while they were gathered together... but I don't recall any information on that. Just as the senator's & representatives lived on their planet & commuted back n forth to the capitol to do their negotiating for the 1,000 years prior... they were likely doing that in 34 ABY as well. I would think most of them are still alive. The galaxy is way bigger than a hand full of planets.

@One MMA Fan @EvilDDS Do you guyz recall any information that the New Republic had some kind of meeting on that day where most of them were on those planets that got destroyed. If not... I'd say most of them were not there.

Aside from having to replace any politicians & re-centralize the New Republic elsewhere... The biggest damage they took was that the destroyed planets served as a communications hub... & so as I understand it... the New Republic cannot communicate to each other as efficiently. So they will not be able to co-ordinate their forces without very time consuming effort... & meanwhile the First Order will be all but free to impose their will.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Needs more Porg's imo

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[CoolB]

I thought it was pretty clear the galaxy is disjointed and needs the Jedi or Sith to pull them together, either for good or bad. What would be the point of Jedi or Sith if the galaxy was fully capable of coming together and fighting wars without them?

 

[ShinkanPo]

So many predictable lines!

1. Like the a.ala Empire Strek Back scene where Darth asks Luke to join him, In this film its Kylo Ren asking Rey Join me! I have seen that from miles away!

2. This one is a throw back to the first StarWars film "A new Hope" The scene where Obi Wan told Vader! Strike me down and I will be more powerful as you can imagine, This time its look telling Kylo that if he strike him down he will always be with him!


To much predictability made the film feel like a parody of the original films!

Flying Leia!

 

[WAR_CLAY_GUIDA!!]

Apparently there is a petition going around to not make TLJ canon.

What are the possibilities of this going through?

I wouldnt mind that TBH. And have J.J redo ep 8

I wouldn't be mad if they did redo it. But it's very unlikely.

 

[One MMA Fan]

@One MMA Fan @EvilDDS Do you guyz recall any information that the New Republic had some kind of meeting on that day where most of them were on those planets that got destroyed. If not... I'd say most of them were not there.

I think from the books we have info those planets held the Senate and the 'new Empire' fleet so that was the biggest win possible for the bad guys that is why we are left with so few forces and resources.

Basically it was some sort of shady truce until it wasn't. Snoke and the remnants of the Old Empire enslaved / developed a bunch of places in the unknown regions and they built and grow extremely well for 30 years until they came back in force and had that major power play / surprise attack.. Leia saw the upcoming dangers and was trying to get everyone to react but she was to late.

 

[shockaholic12]

Then it wasnt an unexpected surprise now was it. You cant have it both ways.

And when it comes to light saber battles, you say you didnt need one and i have to take your word for it. I needed one.

And ill bet 10 jawas out of 10 that if there was one, youd choose seeing that version over one without a fight.

Snoke getting killed off? No, not a twist. Plot points don’t need to be a twist to work. It was a good beat in the ongoing series long arc of Kylo trying to become Vader and the light inside making that complicated. If Kylo didn’t take that opportunity then it would have contridicted his main goal of the entire series.

Snoke doesn’t strike me as the type who engages in arcobatic saber battles, that in CGI would have looked so stupid. In a head on battle he would have force lightning’d Kylo to death. Kylo wouldn’t have been dumb enough to challenge him like that. Catching Snoke when he’s distracted reading thoughts is the only thing that really made sense, and fits in with how weaker jedi have taken out stronger dark side leaders in past films.

The surprises, or unknown story beat in that scene was whether Kylo killed Snoke because of the light in him or because he wants to rule the first order and ascend to a darker side. I can’t think of a better way to show him making that’s choice than showing his motive for killing Snoke, and I can’t think of a more believable way for him to kill Snoke than the Emperor Palpatine-esque way he did.

The Leia flying through space was a silly looking, but she is a skywalker and in the end I didn’t mind her finally getting to show off some force abilities.

 

[TrueBias]

Honestly its tough to know for sure, I mean we've had plenty of films in the past that surely alt right people could have tried to sabotage there user scores yet they didn't do this badly.

Personally my feeling is that this film including Luke ment that it was playing with fire in terms of peoples opinions. You piss people off dealing with that story in a questionable fashion and I think theres a strong chance a lot of viewers who don't normally bother to review films online sign up in order to show general displeasure.

Honestly, i dont argue on my soap box on behalf of the sjw element. I dont think it's a good movie and an awful star wars. Most of not all my arguments center on the star wars universe, alleged surprises, plot holes. I think the rose girl was oddly casted and finn is a shoe horn, but I'll not waste any more seconds of my time in that cuz there are bigger fish to fry.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

If the first order was a remnant of the emire, wouldn't the republic have built up a fleet to match them? The whole galaxy learning from the past would have rose up to the building threat of the first order. The story is clunky from the start with no back story. How did the first order grow so large in a republic that was built in the aftermath of huge galactic coupe?

Most of this was discussed in the books. The First order was funded in secret through underground criminal organizations & they built their army in the unknown regions, out of site of the New Republic. Most of the New Republic had heard of the First Order, but they didn't believe them to be a threat.

That's part of the reason why the resistance was developed. Leia tried reasoning with the Senate, but they wouldn't hear it... so Leia took matters into her own hands outside of the law of the senate in secret.

The New Republic does have a massive force... as for the 30 years they've been adding people to the group... each one of them has their own military forces & fleets. A centralized army for the New Republic was forbidden in light of another Palpatine gaining control of it. They deduced that it's better to have a 1,000 different armies... & that way someone couldn't gain control over the whole force with one big swoop.

The planets the First Order destroyed were a major communications hub. So the New Republic is now scrambling to: figure out wtf happened.... & then 2, they need to respond. However, at the end of TLJ we're only days from the planets being destroyed. Word is not even out yet. there's people that don't even know that it happened yet, much less ready to respond.

Basically, no one knew how big the First Order really was. They came from out of no where guns blazing & within a week or so have now revealed themselves & are here to take over.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Agreed. Though I didn't like Rogue One at first. It's growing on me. And it's finaly act while not perfect, was better than all of the last jedi. It's setting is what it got right for me. I felt like the galaxy was lived in. Things were dirty, gritty, beat up. Things felt as if they've been used for a long time. The characters while shallow seemed battle worn, like they've been fighting for a long time before we see them in the movie. Everything in these new saga films seems to be to bright and shiny. Nothing feels like the galaxy is recovering from a decades long conflict thats cost Billions of lives, and un-measurable treasure to fight and win. It's like yeah the republic is back and everything is just fine. Then the first order just sneaks up on them. If the first order was a remnant of the emire, wouldn't the republic have built up a fleet to match them? The whole galaxy learning from the past would have rose up to the building threat of the first order. The story is clunky from the start with no back story. How did the first order grow so large in a republic that was built in the aftermath of huge galactic coupe? So i understand the complaints of the force awakens choices. But at least Abrams didn't overtly dick slap me in the face with a condescending message of his own intellectual superiority.

And all these mary-sue hater accusations to anyone who didn't buy into this train wreck of a movie are groundless and missing the point. I don't care if Rey becomes neo from the matrix. But you better damn well make her somebody i care about and want to root for. I don't care about her becasuse shes just an OP character there to offset the only character i care about in the movie. Shes a plot device devoid of any personality traits or flaws to overcome. She just matches force user more experienced than herself to move the plot forward. There are no consequences for her facing more seasoned force users in combat. She met snoke face to face and came away practically unharmed. luke faces vader before hes ready and loses his hand and almost loses his life. He faces the emperor and if not for vader would have died from the force lightning. Nope not Rey though. God forbid you make her vulnerable to appease the girl power crowd. Kylo has been wasted potential since TFA. He's should have trashed Rey in that battle, wounded or not. Kylo is the one i want to see most in these movies but he gets pushed to the side to follow rey and finn. Adam Driver is wasted on these films even though dude has a weird body lol. And the OT is overrated crowd are morons period.

I think a problem a lot of people have with Rogue One personally is that we've gotten out of the habit of letting films grow on us. The original Starwars films for me are the classic example of this, they came out in the era of cheap tickets and long runs were watching them half a dozen times wasn't uncommon then they were watched endlessly on VHS, Cable, DVD, etc.

Empire Strikes Back espsically is I film that really benefits from that, were it released these days the likes of Chirs Stuckman would probably rubbish it claiming much of the middle were Luke's training with Yoda and the Han/leia romance is building without much action was dull.

Honestly I'm very much on the liberial side of things politically but Rey is a total Mary Sue in TFA, amazing really just how closely she fits that mold. Again I think politics here is used as a cheap shield for weak writing, Rey ends up more as a vessel for collective nostalgia than a character, she might as well be a guide in a Starwars theme park for much of it.

Its getting repetitive I know but again Rogue One shows you the difference, a well written female lead who doesn't need to develop a new insane power ever 5 mins or constantly rub your nose in its supposed equality.

 

[TrueBias]

What the fuck are all these assumptions? GTFO here. I accept it as fact because not accepting it as fact means I'm making an interpretation based on my own beliefs such as you are doing right now. The overall numbers are an amalgamation of all the reviews broken down by percentages. How is this open to interpretation at all?

Your second paragraph is fucking child's play. Its arrogant, obnoxious and bull shit. This is the arrogance I speak of from haters. Good, I'm glad you think the movie is shit and you think I have poor taste but your comments are the epitome of poor taste and I take them with a grain of salt even though they aren't worth that much.

I'm not playing devils advocate.

Sorry for meeting your bullshit vitriol with my bullshit vitriol but maybe it'll help you to understand the moronic crap you just posted in reply to me.

oh wow. you got mad.

Then beat me at my own game and you tell me why the scores dont reflect the reviews?

or dont.

 

[One MMA Fan]

So many predictable lines!

1. Like the a.ala Empire Strek Back scene where Darth asks Luke to join him, In this film its Kylo Ren asking Rey Join me! I have seen that from miles away!

2. This one is a throw back to the first StarWars film "A new Hope" The scene where Obi Wan told Vader! Strike me down and I will be more powerful as you can imagine, This time its look telling Kylo that if he strike him down he will always be with him!


To much predictability made the film feel like a parody of the original films!

Flying Leia!

Dude we are 9 movies in a franchise be prepared to see familiarity and call backs.

TLJ is split among the audiences because it took chances and 'had new stuff' and the balls to resist having pure fan service instead they took out Luke maybe in the best way possible and pushed us in the future cause as much as I love Luke, Han, Leia they old.. you won't get new generation of fans to join up when you have some old farts doing action scenes just to please the other old farts that grew up with them.

Let it die, move forward or don't and just replay the OT.

PS: Leia just nudged herself a tad, it's not that big of a force use all things considered she didn't fly it was in 0 gravity already.

Mark my words in a few years this will be accepted as one of the best Star Wars movies we ever got. But don't worry fan service / happy ending / lightsaber duels are coming with JJ.

 

[WAR_CLAY_GUIDA!!]

Most of this was discussed in the books. The First order was funded in secret through underground criminal organizations & they built their army in the unknown regions, out of site of the New Republic. Most of the New Republic had heard of the First Order, but they didn't believe them to be a threat.

That's part of the reason why the resistance was developed. Leia tried reasoning with the Senate, but they wouldn't hear it... so Leia took matters into her own hands outside of the law of the senate in secret.

The New Republic does have a massive force... as for the 30 years they've been adding people to the group... each one of them has their own military forces & fleets. A centralized army for the New Republic was forbidden in light of another Palpatine gaining control of it. They deduced that it's better to have a 1,000 different armies... & that way someone couldn't gain control over the whole force with one big swoop.

The planets the First Order destroyed were a major communications hub. So the New Republic is now scrambling to: figure out wtf happened.... & then 2, they need to respond. However, at the end of TLJ we're only days from the planets being destroyed. Word is not even out yet. there's people that don't even know that it happened yet, much less ready to respond.

Basically, no one knew how big the First Order really was. They came from out of no where guns blazing & within a week or so have now revealed themselves & are here to take over.

Thank you, that makes it a little easier to understand. I think some of this being discussed in the both the movies would go a long way into fleshing out the story. Not everyone has time or resources to read up on the additional novels and comics. So some of this making its way into the movie even just bits and pieces would have made a huge difference. And give people more a sense of how off guard and on the toes the resistance and republic really were. Also adding more depth and size to the galaxy and conflict.

 

[shockaholic12]

She killed Luke by doing that, you know. If Finn destroyed the gun, Luke wouldnt have to use the force so hard that he died.

Definitely parts of that scene I didn’t like, and those two little side story wasn’t great....

But the line she delivers about it being about saving each other instead of dying for each other I thought was clever. It made me look back at the earlier films and realize most of the dark sides/empire/first order’s greatest defeats came about when people who cared about each other went on rescue missions or tried to turn back those lost to the dark side.

 

[TrueBias]

Snoke getting killed off? No, not a twist. Plot points don’t need to be a twist to work. It was a good beat in the ongoing series long arc of Kylo trying to become Vader and the light inside making that complicated. If Kylo didn’t take that opportunity then it would have contridicted his main goal of the entire series.

Snoke doesn’t strike me as the type who engages in arcobatic saber battles, that in CGI would have looked so stupid. In a head on battle he would have force lightning’d Kylo to death. Kylo wouldn’t have been dumb enough to challenge him like that. Catching Snoke when he’s distracted reading thoughts is the only thing that really made sense, and fits in with how weaker jedi have taken out stronger dark side leaders in past films.

The surprises, or unknown story beat in that scene was whether Kylo killed Snoke because of the light in him or because he wants to rule the first order and ascend to a darker side. I can’t think of a better way to show him making that’s choice than showing his motive for killing Snoke, and I can’t think of a more believable way for him to kill Snoke than the Emperor Palpatine-esque way he did.

The Leia flying through space was a silly looking, but she is a skywalker and in the end I didn’t mind her finally getting to show off some force abilities.

oh i see what you mean.

the twisty surprise was Kylo killing snoke, not to save rey and bring in the light side, but taking an opportunity to become the master.

I mean, if that's what it was, ok, it is just hard for me to become convinced of it. Not saying that is NOT what happenef, im saying that either the character being written as a cry baby is lousy or that Adam driver presented the character in that way, imitating anakin before him. Either way, it didnt come off to me as evil, a force to be reckoned with, or a new challenge going forward.

thanks for explain ing.

And leihas moment was cringey.

 

[CoolB]

oh wow. you got mad.

Then beat me at my own game and you tell me why the scores dont reflect the reviews?

or dont.

Same reason why the scores on here don't reflect the reviews. The people who enjoyed the movie gave it a reasonable rating and left it at that. The haters, as I've mentioned before seem to be intent on making sure everyone around them know just how much they hated the movie. Complainers are always the loudest in the bunch.

Me on the other hand I will admit dramatics like yours do slightly set me off. If you've been paying attention I haven't been a savior for the movie. I haven't tried to force my love of the movie on anyone. I've pretty much been having fun combating the dramatics with a little bit of defending the movie sprinkled in.

My last reply was tempered, not angry but at this point I wouldn't expect you to understand or accept another person's point of view.

 

[sickc0d3r]

You've been to sites, looked at the numbers, and accepted it a fact. I challenge you to look at the audience reviews at RT while its at 52% or imdb and read the user reviews at 7.7.

You may believe the numbers and your motive is clear; you liked this movie, so any narrative to support your enjoyment of a shit movie maybe crucial to you because that may indicate that you could have poor taste.

Lets say i play devils advocate and just look at the scores. How do i explain the countless reviews on sites that are 50% and below (youll find its primarily 30% and below)? Do i say theyre fake? Yes, Ill say that bots are all grading this low, making individual harsh reviews, some that are novels, skewing the otherwise perfect score. Thats right, the insinuation is that it is easier to fake typed out, elaborate reviews than falsifying the scores.

If it is such a shit movie, why do all the critics seem to like it? Generally, they are most interested in the film making and craft involved, which would belie the total mess narrative that disgruntled fans are trying to sell us. My opinion is that fans have preconceived notions of what a Star Wars movie is supposed to be, and the biggest problem with TLJ is it basically told them to get over themselves.

For those of us who were willing to let the movie take us wherever it wanted to go it was a highly enjoyable experience. You can accept that this is possible without being a fan of shit like Transformers, or not.

Matter of fact, let's talk about taste in movies, just for context.

I thought all the prequels were unwatchable garbage. I love all the OT, though it is has more than it share of bad writing--not so much ESB, but ANH and ROTJ are comically bad in spots (My friends and I watched Star Wars in the theater when it came out over and over again, every day for the first week, usually back to back to back showings).

Comparing TLJ to other sci fi flicks in recent memory, I would maybe rate it on par with Interstellar, which I really enjoyed despite some big story issues.

I like it better than very solid movies like Guardians of the Galaxy, Edge Of Tomorrow, Snowpiercer, The Martian, Ex Machina, Oblivian, and Looper.

But it's not as good as the top tier such as Moon, Bladerunner 2049, Under The Skin, and Children of Men.

Make of that what you will.

 

[TrueBias]

I think a problem a lot of people have with Rogue One personally is that we've gotten out of the habit of letting films grow on us. The original Starwars films for me are the classic example of this, they came out in the era of cheap tickets and long runs were watching them half a dozen times wasn't uncommon then they were watched endlessly on VHS, Cable, DVD, etc.

Empire Strikes Back espsically is I film that really benefits from that, were it released these days the likes of Chirs Stuckman would probably rubbish it claiming much of the middle were Luke's training with Yoda and the Han/leia romance is building without much action was dull.

Honestly I'm very much on the liberial side of things politically but Rey is a total Mary Sue in TFA, amazing really just how closely she fits that mold. Again I think politics here is used as a cheap shield for weak writing, Rey ends up more as a vessel for collective nostalgia than a character, she might as well be a guide in a Starwars theme park for much of it.

Its getting repetitive I know but again Rogue One shows you the difference, a well written female lead who doesn't need to develop a new insane power ever 5 mins or constantly rub your nose in its supposed equality.

Nicely put. I too arent on board with the sjw and the arguments for "alt right" bringing the scores down now remind me of the ghostbusters remake, thanks to your take.

Theres no other agenda here with me. I believe its an awful star wars movie and it isnt because there is a female lead or women commanders.

 

[TrueBias]

If it is such a shit movie, why do all the critics seem to like it? Generally, they are most interested in the film making and craft involved, which would belie the total mess narrative that disgruntled fans are trying to sell us. My opinion is that fans have preconceived notions of what a Star Wars movie is supposed to be, and the biggest problem with TLJ is it basically told them to get over themselves.

For those of us who were willing to let the movie take us wherever it wanted to go it was a highly enjoyable experience. You can accept that this is possible without being a fan of shit like Transformers, or not.

Matter of fact, let's talk about taste in movies, just for context.

I thought all the prequels were unwatchable garbage. I love all the OT, though it is has more than it share of bad writing--not so much ESB, but ANH and ROTJ are comically bad in spots (My friends and I watched Star Wars in the theater when it came out over and over again, every day for the first week, usually back to back to back showings).

Comparing TLJ to other sci fi flicks in recent memory, I would maybe rate it on par with Interstellar, which I really enjoyed despite some big story issues.

I like it better than very solid movies like Guardians of the Galaxy, Edge Of Tomorrow, Snowpiercer, The Martian, Ex Machina, Oblivian, and Looper.

But it's not as good as the top tier such as Moon, Bladerunner 2049, Under The Skin, and Children of Men.

Make of that what you will.

I.....i cant believe.

Did you just say TLJ is as enjoyable as Interstellar?


Ok, im having a hard time..... you guys are just having your fun way with me.