STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[BisexualMMA]

That did feel especially strange, you introduce a plot point specifically about him not dying and then he dies anyway so their might be some truth to that idea.

 

[D Train]

I would guess it's because after the initial entertainment factor wears off people can more clearly see it's many flaws. It gets worse with age.

This was my experience. I actually rated it a 7 the night I saw it. But the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. It had its moments and I do think it’s beautifully shot, but I’d rate it a 4 now.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Welcome to the resistance buddy

I thought you weren't with the resistance. How could you be welcoming me to a group that you are not a part of?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Welcome to the resistance buddy

Fuck the resistance.

We're Rebels.

 

[SamSchmidt]

Damn this thing was 300 pages?

Lemme guess.

295 of them were @Myrddin Wild rebutting every negative thing you guys had to say.

Myr I love star wars too man. But don't die on this hill.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

And they have failed.

The toy isles are basically empty of SW toys and we have a new movie coming out next month.

Back track to before TLJ and stores had entire isles dedicated to SW Toys.

I just so happen to see this on the Ebay 'Daily Deals.'

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-...IE-Pilot-Figure/223668366106?_trkparms=5079:0

'Rise of Skywalker' toys are already 50% off, and the movie isn't even out yet!

<Lmaoo>

 

[BisexualMMA]

I thought you weren't with the resistance. How could you be welcoming me to a group that you are not a part of?

You can join the resistance if you want but you have to be the robot fucker or else the beak lady.

 

[IamStryker]

He 100% knew Leia & Han were in trouble when he left Degobah & was 100% right. He obviously felt like this one was on the same level... & don't look now, but he once again was 100% right.

So a Jedi who is training his nephew should consider killing him in his sleep because he thinks a few people might be in trouble. Yeah ok.

 

[ufcfan4]

Have to say that some of @BisexualMMA 's comments- such as his notion of what Rise of Skywalker might do with Calrisean, had me legitimately laughing aloud while reading on my phone. I was in the presence of others at the time and feel they might now think I'm losing it. Worth it though. Hilarious.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

So a Jedi who is training his nephew should consider killing him in his sleep because he thinks a few people might be in trouble. Yeah ok.

Even moreso its that same Jedi had previously gone out of his way not to kill his father, an actual mass murdering Sith lord in the belief he could be saved.

I doubt Abrams had much clear idea about this plot but I think there was obvious potential for more than this, off the top of my head....

1.Luke dogmatically trains Ben to avoid the darkside but repressing negative feelings rather than confronting them leads to Snoke tempting him.

2.Ben has some kind of loss(maybe a twin sister dies?) that he puts down to not being strong enough and turns to the darkside to take what he thinks is the strength needed.

That might have taken longer but honestly why not? Luke/Rey was really the story we were hyped to see yet it ended up being the B story to the aweful clusterfuck with la resistance. They would have been much better off making Rey/Luke and Kylo the real focus of the film with the resistance story just being a simple chase/siege to crank up the tension and give a bit of action, no childish casino planet, no Holdo, etc.

The film as well should IMHO have had the courage to actually make Rey the lead character, its a lazy cop out to make her this bland perfect hero playing to cheap wokeness whilst depending on Luke to actually provide the drama. So have Rey be the one with simplistic ideas about light/dark that Luke has moved beyond akin to the way Luke himself was educated by Yoda against simplistic heroism.

 

[Eusung]

As you can read from my original TLJ review, I already had lots of problems with the movie. So when I had a chance to rewatch it when it was released on home video, the flaws were greatly magnified to the point where all my initial criticisms for it elevated to anger. The same happened to me with The Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus where the flaws of the movies keep getting stupider the more I thought about it and so the ratings were also lowered.

Hope this answers your question.

Wow I kept thinking TLJ is a spiritual successor to Prometheus: a beautiful idiot.

I had the same thoughts watching Prometheus...like "Huh?? Isn't this kind of stupid? hmm there must be a reason....uhh space cobra wtf?" Then I go log into forums and see almost everyone complaining about the exact same thing.

Tarantino on Prometheus always gets me:

 

[Deleted member 110072]

That's a bit harsh on Ridley Scott IMHO, I mean he's maybe not quite at the level he was at visually early in his career but the films are still pretty good looking and tasteful were as these Starwars sequels feel rather more Avatar like to me, visually their dumbed down cinema with a simple in your face style to them.

They do I think share the Abrams style of script writing though, basically focused on constant forward motion throwing stuff at the audience so quickly they can't really process it and realise how dumb it actually is.

Basically trying to trick you into thinking you watched a good piece of cinema on first viewing but the illusion doesn't last. These days though I'd say a big factor is people nail their colours to the mast via this initial viewing on the net and then defend them to the death "I couldn't have been hoodwinked by a hack, not me the master of cinematic taste".

 

[Bob Gray]

it was a fleeting moment, that he saw that "kid" killing everyone else he loved.

But to your point... the self-defeatist was about to let his friends die on cloud city when he gave up trying to remove the x-wing from the swamp... so this is a pattern he had in his inner psych. He even bitched about "I'm never going to get off this planet" when Uncle had him stay for another season. I'm just saying that it's a re-occuring inner part of his psychology from childhood.

The real elephant in the room is why Obi didn''t raise him from infancy & keep him from developing such self-defeatist attitudez.

I literally just showed my girlfriends Boys Episode 4. First time they ever saw it and even I hadnt see it in years. Pretty much everything you say about Luke being a whiny defeatist is stu-tarded. You have to cherry pick your points and ignore everything else.

So he had dreams of bigger things? That makes him a bitch? Stop. You're talking about a dude that went out alone into the desert into the territory of Sand People like it was another day at the office. A guy who came home and saw the people who raised him all his life brunt to a crisp and didnt even shed a tear. Just said "Now, Im gonna fuck those bastards up" *

*Paraphrased



This chap noticed that Leia was being held prisoner and dropped everything to go rescue someone he never met in his life, against overwhelming odds, simply because it was the right thing to do.

Getting choked out by a garbage lizard? "Just shoot it anywhere".

The man ran the trench of the Death Star and didnt even flinch. Darth Vader on his ass and hes cool as a cucumber.


And re-iterating a previous note. Luke isnt a goddamn cry-baby. Wampa beast got me hung upside down like a slab of beef after bitch slapping my Taun Taun? No tears. Obi Wan, the father figure, dropped like a sack of potatoes by one of the most fearsome people in the galaxy, and what does he do? Starts blasting fuckers. Childhood friend blown up by Darth Vader? Only a moment to take it in before he saves the galaxy.

Meanwhile heres "Hard as fuck, Legend of Jakku, Nobody fucks with her staff" Rey

Shedding waterfalls for a dude she met 12 hours ago and another time for a big eared doofus that she saw shirtless one time. Then another time because...I dunno, why not? "Im Rey its time to cry thats what I do."

Apparently Reys tears train her in the force which explains why shes a demi-god 2 days after learning the force even existed.

Meanwhile this is the face Luke made when seeing the only family he ever knew get burned alive and knowing his whole life would now be a war.

Know whats missing? Fucking TEARS! Apparently Rey needs all of them for her training.



"Luke Skywalker is a self defeatist, whiny crybaby because of two sentences and I want to bear Reys children from my pussy" - Murradin Why?ld


Rey is a crybaby.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

So a Jedi who is training his nephew should consider killing him in his sleep because he thinks a few people might be in trouble. Yeah ok.

He doesn't "think" it... His visions are proven to be real.

"A few people" lol...

Even moreso its that same Jedi had previously gone out of his way not to kill his father, an actual mass murdering Sith lord in the belief he could be saved.

...& as soon as Vader threatened Leia....

Luke flipped teh fuck out just like he did with Kylo... the old man fucked up & damn near turned Luke to the dark side as Luke was seconds away from murdering that muther fucker for threatening Leia. He probably would've saw it through had the Emperor not intervened like that's what he wanted him to do.

 

[IamStryker]

He doesn't "think" it... His visions are proven to be real.
.

Which he doesn't know for sure. He said he felt shame for even considering it and failing Kylo. He essentially acknowledges in the movie how stupid an idea it is in the first place. Probably something Mark Hamill told to RJ but that dummy didn't listen.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I literally just showed my girlfriends Boys Episode 4. First time they ever saw it and even I hadnt see it in years. Pretty much everything you say about Luke being a whiny defeatist is stu-tarded. You have to cherry pick your points and ignore everything else.

So he had dreams of bigger things? That makes him a bitch? Stop. You're talking about a dude that went out alone into the desert into the territory of Sand People like it was another day at the office. A guy who came home and saw the people who raised him all his life brunt to a crisp and didnt even shed a tear. Just said "Now, Im gonna fuck those bastards up" *

*Paraphrased

This chap noticed that Leia was being held prisoner and dropped everything to go rescue someone he never met in his life, against overwhelming odds, simply because it was the right thing to do.

Getting choked out by a garbage lizard? "Just shoot it anywhere".

The man ran the trench of the Death Star and didnt even flinch. Darth Vader on his ass and hes cool as a cucumber.

And re-iterating a previous note. Luke isnt a goddamn cry-baby. Wampa beast got me hung upside down like a slab of beef after bitch slapping my Taun Taun? No tears. Obi Wan, the father figure, dropped like a sack of potatoes by one of the most fearsome people in the galaxy, and what does he do? Starts blasting fuckers. Childhood friend blown up by Darth Vader? Only a moment to take it in before he saves the galaxy.

Meanwhile heres "Hard as fuck, Legend of Jakku, Nobody fucks with her staff" Rey

Shedding waterfalls for a dude she met 12 hours ago and another time for a big eared doofus that she saw shirtless one time. Then another time because...I dunno, why not? "Im Rey its time to cry thats what I do."

Apparently Reys tears train her in the force which explains why shes a demi-god 2 days after learning the force even existed.

Meanwhile this is the face Luke made when seeing the only family he ever knew get burned alive and knowing his whole life would now be a war.

Know whats missing? Fucking TEARS! Apparently Rey needs all of them for her training.

"Luke Skywalker is a self defeatist, whiny crybaby because of two sentences and I want to bear Reys children from my pussy" - Murradin Why?ld

Rey is a crybaby.

I think a lot of that comes down to the nature of the films again. A lot of the appeal of the originals for me is that there driven by a man who started off as a leading light of New Hollywood ala Coppola, Marty, Polanski, etc and took a lot of that way of working into blockbusters. Granted parts of ROTJ do become rather broader but for the most part you have this cinema verite style superimposed onto a Flash Gordon space fantasy, both in terms of the downt to earth visuals and the characters.

Abrams though is I think naturally a much broader director, his films are visually simpler and more in your face whilst his characters tend to more over emotional, not just crying but pretty much everything they do I mean just compare Trek into Darkness to Wrath of Khan, the latter has strong emotion in it but it doesn't turn to it at the drop of a hat.

Its why I think Rogue One is by far the best Starwars film since the originals as its the only one that has the same kind of approach to the material.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

"Luke Skywalker is a self defeatist, whiny crybaby because of two sentences and I want to bear Reys children from my pussy" - Murradin Why?ld

Please don't make up words & then put them in quotes as if I said something I didn't. I never called him a "crybaby" & what you said about me having a pussy was very rude. I have not insulted you. WTF?
Okay, moving on...

I literally just showed my girlfriends Boys Episode 4. First time they ever saw it and even I hadnt see it in years. Pretty much everything you say about Luke being a whiny defeatist is stu-tarded. You have to cherry pick your points and ignore everything else.

So he had dreams of bigger things? That makes him a bitch? Stop. You're talking about a dude that went out alone into the desert into the territory of Sand People like it was another day at the office. A guy who came home and saw the people who raised him all his life brunt to a crisp and didnt even shed a tear. Just said "Now, Im gonna fuck those bastards up" *

*Paraphrased



This chap noticed that Leia was being held prisoner and dropped everything to go rescue someone he never met in his life, against overwhelming odds, simply because it was the right thing to do.

Getting choked out by a garbage lizard? "Just shoot it anywhere".

The man ran the trench of the Death Star and didnt even flinch. Darth Vader on his ass and hes cool as a cucumber.


And re-iterating a previous note. Luke isnt a goddamn cry-baby. Wampa beast got me hung upside down like a slab of beef after bitch slapping my Taun Taun? No tears. Obi Wan, the father figure, dropped like a sack of potatoes by one of the most fearsome people in the galaxy, and what does he do? Starts blasting fuckers. Childhood friend blown up by Darth Vader? Only a moment to take it in before he saves the galaxy.

Meanwhile heres "Hard as fuck, Legend of Jakku, Nobody fucks with her staff" Rey

Shedding waterfalls for a dude she met 12 hours ago and another time for a big eared doofus that she saw shirtless one time. Then another time because...I dunno, why not? "Im Rey its time to cry thats what I do."

Apparently Reys tears train her in the force which explains why shes a demi-god 2 days after learning the force even existed.

Meanwhile this is the face Luke made when seeing the only family he ever knew get burned alive and knowing his whole life would now be a war.

Know whats missing? Fucking TEARS! Apparently Rey needs all of them for her training.



"Luke Skywalker is a self defeatist, whiny crybaby because of two sentences and I want to bear Reys children from my pussy" - Murradin Why?ld


Rey is a crybaby.

Shedding tears is not a requirement for harboring a negative inner psychology.
You can be "whiney" without tears. Which Luke definitely is, by the way he complains & the way he sounds while doing it, as well as him just straight up giving up at times.

You're calling me out for saying he's a "whiney little bitch"... your point being that's over the top. I agree.

Other than mistaking that I ever said anything about tears... you presented your point here well... that he also has a rarefied inner strength. He had those whiney tendencies too... but he did rock up to a greater degree. I see your point here & digress that me calling him "a little bitch" was over the top.

He's still "whiney" though... and he was a little bitch "at times"... but I see it's not accurate as a blanket statement to call him "a little bitch" after all the great things he did & the times that he did Rock up.

Beyond that label correction... my underlying point still stands that he harbors a self-defeatist inner psychology. Yoda poked him with his cane in TLJ & pointed out how he's recurring those same negative tendencies that he had on Degobah. Yes he rocked up at times, but he also gave up on saving his friends on Degobah.

That's the point I've been making, that got me explaining all this to begin with. It's fine if someone wants to say that they can't get over the fact that Luke's story didn't continue in the way they wanted it too. However, it's not true that his portrayal is inaccurately written in TLJ. Luke rocked up for a while in the OT & then reverted back to the same negative inner tendencies that he was harboring when he met Yoda. Yoda even said so in the OT & then again in TLJ. Recurring lifetime tendencies are a reality of psychology irl no matter how much you rock up & live beyond their influence at times.

Comparing Luke to Rey​

Okay, she sheds tears & Luke doesn't... but her inner psychology is way stronger than Luke's. (& definitely upper middle class silver spoon Kylo as well for that matter)

Luke grew up with the love & support of his family in a nice home & chilled blue milk in the fridge. Granted it's not as cush as the world we live in today, & he wasn't "spoiled" like some rich upper middle class kid (ehem) but Luke was domesticated enough that he had the luxury of bitching about his chores whereas Rey would wake up in the morning knowing she wouldn't eat if she didn't get to work. She had to become a master of her trade or die trying.

While Luke was going to school with his friends, Rey was sitting alone in her AT-AT studying battle ship schematics.

Tattoine is dangerous, but Luke grew up with his Jedi body guard keeping the majority of the baddies at bay. Rey had to learn how to defend herself or she would get robbed & god knows what else.

You can see how the 2 lifestyles growing up would create different inner psychologies & tendencies.

That should not be overlooked. I think it's what the "everything comes easy for Rey" crowd is missing. She develops a much more fierce sense of survival & couldn't afford to second guess herself. This is why the force flows through her. Her inner psychology doesn't block it. She is a conduit for the force, where-as Luke's self doubting whiney inner psychology is like an on/off switch for the force. (Yoda: "that is why you fail")

When Luke rocks up & just goes balls to the wall or focuses like he did in the famous Death Star shot in ep. 4... he flips the switch to "on"... & he's spectacular. I don't think that same switch exists in Rey, because she couldn't afford the luxury of even developing it growing up, like it did in the much more domestic Luke.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I think one of the biggest problems the sequels have though is that Rey's character(like Finn's) doesn't match her background, to me it feels more like a deliberate rehash of Luke's but with the misguided idea that having fewer flaws makes her "better".

Rey should be semi feral with massive mistrust and abandonment issues, instead she looks/sounds like she's steped off the train from Oxbridge and is a dreamer ala Luke.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Which he doesn't know for sure. He said he felt shame for even considering it and failing Kylo. He essentially acknowledges in the movie how stupid an idea it is in the first place. Probably something Mark Hamill told to RJ but that dummy didn't listen.

His visions were correct before & they were correct this time. His feeling of family kicked in even though he saw where it was going.

I think it's self evident in the movie that Luke was already questioning whether Ben was too far gone. He obviously didn't plan on killing Ben that night, but the vision was so horrific that he snapped momentarily.

Ep. 6... he snapped on Vader & was ready to murder that mother fucker for talking about going after Leia. He's probably had a struggle against turning dark his whole life given the late start that he had & so fucking up isn't that hard to understand for him.

I don't think it's "stupid" as you say, but to your point I will agree that they could've explored a bit more how dark Kylo was getting... & explained in more detail the horrors of the vision. Would be hard to do the vision in much detail without giving away future story, so that makes sense, but perhaps he could've expanded on it in some way.

while I say they "could've" expanded on that stuff... I think there's enough there that shows us that Luke was already questioning whether Kylo would go full dark... & that the vision was a horrific vision of him killing all those people... & so I've got no problem with it.

 

[toaa]

Fuck the resistance.

We're Rebels.

REBEL SCUM