STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Mike]

Well it did for 20 years but now it doesn’t. It shows you anything is possible

My issue isn't having luke act that way. It's the complete lack of connective tissue.

In a movie that wastes most of it's runtime on pointless and nonsensical side plots.

 

[IamStryker]

My issue isn't having luke act that way. It's the complete lack of connective tissue.

In a movie that wastes most of it's runtime on pointless and nonsensical side plots.

This is so incredibly true. It's so important to bring up the "pointless and nonsensical side plots" because it makes the whole thing so much worse. Instead of giving more context on why Luke's character has been completely gutted and pooped on they instead opt to give us a bunch of retarded Finn and Rose scenes that aren't even important.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

My issue isn't having luke act that way. It's the complete lack of connective tissue.

In a movie that wastes most of it's runtime on pointless and nonsensical side plots.

Again I do still strongly suspect that whatever is claimed TLJ had a ton of studio meddling in it, the way the films introduces plot elements and then shoots them down seems like a good indicator.

Most obviously Rey just turning down Kylo's offer("marketing says strong female lead cannot show flaws Rian, I'm sorry") after all the buildup but also Luke. When he first meets Rey I think you get hints at a deeper understanding from him along the lines many suggested, that he had moved beyond merely total rejection of the darkside. I could see that version of Luke working far better, his failure with Ben/Kylo is based on poor teaching that he has to totally reject any negative thoughts. Equally thought I can see Disney baulking at the idea of moving beyond jedi/sith as clear good/evil.

I mean I don't think Johnson is a genius but Looper showed he's a decent reasonably intelligent film maker yet TLJ is absolutely thick as shit and terribly written.

 

[skysolo]

My issue isn't having luke act that way. It's the complete lack of connective tissue.

In a movie that wastes most of it's runtime on pointless and nonsensical side plots.

Side plots sell toys, video games and what not.

Look at the Matrix. The Jada Pinkett side quest made a billion dollars.

 

[Mike]

Side plots sell toys, video games and what not.

Look at the Matrix. The Jada Pinkett side quest made a billion dollars.

We might have all been expecting too much. Looks like they just want to sell shit to kids. Seemingly zero interest in making interesting movies.

RLM said it best (to paraphrase): Apparently Star Wars isn't set in this giant galaxy with tons to explore. It's a tiny pocket universe where EVERYTHING has to relate to one of a dozen existing characters.

 

[Mike]

Again I do still strongly suspect that whatever is claimed TLJ had a ton of studio meddling in it, the way the films introduces plot elements and then shoots them down seems like a good indicator.

Most obviously Rey just turning down Kylo's offer("marketing says strong female lead cannot show flaws Rian, I'm sorry") after all the buildup but also Luke. When he first meets Rey I think you get hints at a deeper understanding from him along the lines many suggested, that he had moved beyond merely total rejection of the darkside. I could see that version of Luke working far better, his failure with Ben/Kylo is based on poor teaching that he has to totally reject any negative thoughts. Equally thought I can see Disney baulking at the idea of moving beyond jedi/sith as clear good/evil.

I mean I don't think Johnson is a genius but Looper showed he's a decent reasonably intelligent film maker yet TLJ is absolutely thick as shit and terribly written.

It had a similar feel to other movies with heavy studio involvement. Sort of reminds me of suicide squad in thst the movie feels like it has ADD and doesn't know what to focus on.

So instead of building a story it's just flashy and loud.

 

[Mike]

This is so incredibly true. It's so important to bring up the "pointless and nonsensical side plots" because it makes the whole thing so much worse. Instead of giving more context on why Luke's character has been completely gutted and pooped on they instead opt to give us a bunch of retarded Finn and Rose scenes that aren't even important.

That's the frustrating part. All they do is shit on the original cast. I find it hard to believe they really thought this is what fans wanted for those characters.

All 3 of them still alive through the first 2 movies, yet we still never see them reunited. Killing off Han and Luke for no real reason. Ok fine. Let's focus on the new characters then....

Oh they're bland and awful and you have no idea what to do with them.....


Greeeeeeat

 

[Clippy]

That's the frustrating part. All they do is shit on the original cast. I find it hard to believe they really thought this is what fans wanted for those characters.

All 3 of them still alive through the first 2 movies, yet we still never see them reunited. Killing off Han and Luke for no real reason. Ok fine. Let's focus on the new characters then....

Oh they're bland and awful and you have no idea what to do with them.....


Greeeeeeat

They will all be destroyed cause George Lucas gets paid some money when they use an OG character

Watch them all be wiped out to make way for bland faceless Disnee shit characters

 

[Mike]

They will all be destroyed cause George Lucas gets paid some money when they use an OG character

Watch them all be wiped out to make way for bland faceless Disnee shit characters

Uuuugh I did not know that. No wonder they're rushing to kill them all off. I'm still pissed they even brought them back just to abuse them like that. Especially Luke.

Mark didn't deserve that.

 

[superpunch]

Again I do still strongly suspect that whatever is claimed TLJ had a ton of studio meddling in it, the way the films introduces plot elements and then shoots them down seems like a good indicator.

Most obviously Rey just turning down Kylo's offer("marketing says strong female lead cannot show flaws Rian, I'm sorry").

Do you think it was the studio that turned Lando into being in a relationship with his droid? I think the directors and writers are just that out of touch. They're in some hollywood bubble.

 

[90 50]

We might have all been expecting too much. Looks like they just want to sell shit to kids. Seemingly zero interest in making interesting movies.

RLM said it best (to paraphrase): Apparently Star Wars isn't set in this giant galaxy with tons to explore. It's a tiny pocket universe where EVERYTHING has to relate to one of a dozen existing characters.

And they have failed.

The toy isles are basically empty of SW toys and we have a new movie coming out next month.

Back track to before TLJ and stores had entire isles dedicated to SW Toys.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Irrelevant because he didn't know that the vision would come to pass. It's not in Lukes character to murder his nephew because of one vision that he obviously doesn't even have confidence in anyway.

He 100% knew Leia & Han were in trouble when he left Degobah & was 100% right. He obviously felt like this one was on the same level... & don't look now, but he once again was 100% right.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

(Quote from the Mando thread but it belongz in here.)

Just to be clear... what were your influences in why you changed your rating?

Do you feel like the social media backlash influenced your personal enjoyment of it? Perhaps that backlash brought up things you hadn't thought about that upset you more than it did after first viewing?

What you said here is that you were getting backlash prior to the release to the public... that your rating was too low. That backlash was from people who hadn't seen it right? So I''m wondering why you felt to say that here in relation to you then dropping your rating from 6.5 - to 4 in the OP of this thread.... "after everyone has seen it."

What I'm getting at... is that I think the social media outrage got in your head & was a factor in why you went from enjoying it 6.5 to disliking it 4... & I was chatting about that with another member (who blew our convo way out of proportion) when they called me out for talking about you behind your back... which I wasn't... but since it's up on the table... I just wanted to go ahead & let you speak your own mind & get your no bullshit reason for why you would go from liking it (6.5) to disliking it (4) rather than speculating on your reasons for doing so.

As you can read from my original TLJ review, I already had lots of problems with the movie. So when I had a chance to rewatch it when it was released on home video, the flaws were greatly magnified to the point where all my initial criticisms for it elevated to anger. The same happened to me with The Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus where the flaws of the movies keep getting stupider the more I thought about it and so the ratings were also lowered.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

As you can read from my original TLJ review, I already had lots of problems with the movie. So when I had a chance to rewatch it when it was released on home video, the flaws were greatly magnified to the point where all my initial criticisms for it elevated to anger. The same happened to me with The Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus where the flaws of the movies keep getting stupider the more I thought about it and so the ratings were also lowered.

Hope this answers your question.

Thank you... & I undestand what you said here... & appreciate your time. We were all obviously knee deep in the controversial backlash that the movie got for many months prior to DVD release. Do you feel like that had any effect on upsetting you more than you otherwise might of been?

It's funny though, that multiple watches had the opposite effect on me... & I know many others who feel that way too. I also know many others that went the route you went as well on multiple watches... to be fair.

"Not my Luke" was my biggest hang up, but It just took a few dayz for me to clear that within. I just realized that I didn't need him to be the superstar I made him out to be in my head... so I accepted the way he was written... & I get it. There's definitely some other minor things that bother me about the movie, but it's little & easily overlooked stuff.

 

[Clippy]

There's definitely some other minor things that bother me about the movie, but it's little & easily overlooked stuff.

Such as?

 

[BisexualMMA]

That's the frustrating part. All they do is shit on the original cast. I find it hard to believe they really thought this is what fans wanted for those characters.

They don't think it's what the fans wanted. They knew full well that grumpy pathetic nephew creeping Luke would play like gangpukers with the established toxic fanbase.

They think it's what the fans needed, and it's their responsibility to teach the fans through "responsible" filmmaking.

Responsible = Terminator Dark Fate

Irresponsible = Joker, Rambo 5

We can't go around being irresponsible.

You having made the mistake of admiring Luke Skywalker all those years is a #teachablemoment.

 

[BisexualMMA]

And they have failed.

The toy isles are basically empty of SW toys and we have a new movie coming out next month.

Back track to before TLJ and stores had entire isles dedicated to SW Toys.

Surely it's because they have already sold out like gangbusters...

 

[Myrddin Wild]

There's definitely some other minor things that bother me about the movie, but it's little & easily overlooked stuff.

Such as?

I'm well aware that you're baiting me with this... but I'll play along a little bit.

I agree that Ackbar should've been the one to go out like that instead of Holdo, but it's not a big deal for me.

I'm not going to feed the resistance with any more fuel that they can blow out of proportion, but I think it's obvious that there'z no way in hell those little cruisers on Crait would've gotten anywhere near those monkey AT's. & Fin submerging himself & his little cruiser into a beam that is currently cutting through a 2 foot thick door. Stuff like that though, is easily overlooked... especially in the genre of fantasy & sci fi... you have to give your fantasy movies a bit of space to allow thingz to breath & for them to tell the story... otherwise you'll never like any of them. It's also much easier to overlook something that is completely inconsequencial & doesn't change the story line in the slightest. In this example, they all got destroyed and/or retreated... so it doesn't even matter how close they got.

In other words, the movie continues on the exact same way regardless of those scenes, so it's very easy to overlook stuff like that.

There'z a couple of super nerd thingz that despite the resistance completely dissecting this movie & putting it under a super proton microscope has not uncovered that I am well aware of... but I will take it to my grave & haven't even told my fellow support folk about it in fear of a leak. It's silly little minor details, but would've changed the story otherwise.

Actually, it's more like I felt they should've written this super technical stuff in, & adjusted the events a little bit in that regard accordingly... and then the movie could proceed just as it did, but they didn't & so it's a flaw... but in the end, it's still not a big deal because the story could've continued on just as it did with just a minor adjustment... & so it's easily overlooked.

 

[Clippy]

I'm well aware that you're baiting me with this... but I'll play along a little bit.

I'm not going to feed the resistance with any more fuel that they can blow out of proportion, but I think it's obvious that there'z no way in hell those little cruisers on Crait would've gotten anywhere near those monkey AT's. & Fin submerging himself & his little cruiser into a beam that is currently cutting through a 2 foot thick door. Stuff like that though, is easily overlooked... especially in the genre of fantasy & sci fi... you have give your fantasy movies a bit of space to allow thingz to breath & for them to tell the story... otherwise you'll never like any of them. It's also much easier to overlook something that is completely inconsequencial & doesn't change the story line in the slightest. In this example, they all got destroyed and/or retreated... so it doesn't even matter if it's accurate or not.

In other words, the movie continues on the exact same way regardless of those scenes, so it's very easy to overlook stuff like that.

There'z a couple of super nerd thingz that despite the resistance completely dissecting this movie & putting it under a super proton microscope has not uncovered that I am well aware of... but I will take it to my grave & haven't even told my fellow support folk about it in fear of a leak. It's silly little minor details, but would've changed the story otherwise.

Actually, it's more like I felt they should've written this super technical stuff in, & adjusted the events a little bit in that regard accordingly... and then the movie could proceed just as it did, but they didn't & so it's a flaw... but in the end, it's still not a big deal because the story could've continued on just as it did with just a minor adjustment... & so it's easily overlooked.

Welcome to the resistance buddy

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Uuuugh I did not know that. No wonder they're rushing to kill them all off. I'm still pissed they even brought them back just to abuse them like that. Especially Luke.

Mark didn't deserve that.

That did feel especially strange, you introduce a plot point specifically about him not dying and then he dies anyway so their might be some truth to that idea.

Part of the problem is IMHO that the new Disney characters are such awful bland audience cyphers that both depend on putting down the original characters to gain credibility but also need those characters to drive the drama because they have none of their own. TFA really is about Han and TLJ is really about Luke but in both cases they depend on recycling attachment from the original films and essentially rebooting the characters, so Han and Luke loose the wisdom we saw them gain previously.

They are up shit creek now though because very few people give a fuck about what happens to the new characters.