STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Goonerview]

The whole thing felt very small scale to me, like the entire conflict boiled down to about 4 First Order ships chasing one Resistance ship and a few small support vessels. Again though that's also the case with TFA where everything seems to happen in one small star system with Finn seeing the First Order hit the convenient reset button blowing up the entire republic and its fleet in one go.

The wars in the prequels seemed to be much more larger scale.These wars felt like some small scale battle from Game of Thrones.

The same in TFA, Han Solo et al. just happen to bump into Rey on the Star Killer base ... an entire planet size WMD. It makes the universe feel small.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Yeah I'd agree with a lot of that Bob, I find it ironic defenders of this film are now doing exactly the kind of thing they always mocked people for doing with the prequels, looking to belittle the originals in highly questionable fashion to try and explain away faults. Honestly does kind of hint to be who's more of a fan of Starwars and who's more of a fan of riding hype of new releases.

For one thing of course the originals should not be judged by the prequels but rather the way in which they present Obi Wan and Yoda. Even there though I think its very clear that Obi Wan isn't just "hiding away" but is actually watching over Luke and indeed comes to the aid of the rebels as soon as he's asked to when the conflict with the Empire becomes "hot" and the Deathstar is revealed.

As you say the entire climax to Luke's story in Return of the Jedi involved him disagreeing with Obi Wan and looking to turn Vader back rather than kill him despite all that he'd done and could still do and succeeding. If anyone would have the perspective on the Ben/Kylo situation then it would surely be Luke?

At the very least if they took Luke in this direction they should have done a hell of a lot more to actually sell the situation. Make showing the Jedi training in flashback a sizeble part of the film(maybe shown from both Luke and Kylo's perspectives) with Ben getting some motivation to turn and Luke putting more effort into turning him back and failing in a more nuanced way than just desiding to kill him for the greater good.

That would surely have been better than the bland go nowhere resistance plot that took up so much screentime?

I’m glad someone else mentions what I was thinking: that defenders of this movie keep criticizing the old movies in order to defend it.

Well, it’s not making me like this movie anymore, it’s making me like the entire franchise just a little bit less.

 

[Tiny]

I don't understand how anyone can be this analytical and not like or at least appreciate what THE LAST JEDI accomplished.

This last statement is particularly sharp.

You yourself are your own proof.

All the last jedi accomplished was to finally have me now disinterested in whatever happens next. It litterally is now on par with DC movies.

If that was the goal...then congrats. I finally don't give a shit about Star Wars.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I’m glad someone else mentions what I was thinking: that defenders of this movie keep criticizing the old movies in order to defend it.

Well, it’s not making me like this movie anymore, it’s making me like the entire franchise just a little bit less.

Again this seems rather ironic to me as the people doing this spent years and years having a pop at defenders of the prequels who tended to do the same thing, that is tearing down the originals in highly questionable fashion to play up the prequels.

In this case I actually think the issue is that Starwars kind of became the example used for a hell of a lot of really questionable arguments about the merits of blockbuster cinema. The prequels became a fish in a barrel critically that anyone could have a pop at and not get much disagreement, some of it was legit but a lot of the ideas about what made "good starwars" were seriously flawed for me.

The likes of Chris Stuckman to me pushed a far too limited view of the success of those films that looked to boil it down to a kind of blockbuster 101 formula which JJ Abrams was obviously a prime exponent of. What he failed to do was see the more complex influences and the general quality of the production of the original films.

The sequels for me really put this to the test and I think ultimately we see that the Abrams formula has failed to recreate the success of the originals. Rogue One on the other hand(which many such reviewers hated for going against his simplistic formula and daring to take itself seriously) did a vastly more successful job of recreating the quality of the originals.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I would say its worth giving a try at some stage(maybe cheaper home viewing), if you disliked TFA you will probably find plenty of fault with it but there is some decent more ambitious stuff mixed in with that.

I don't really want to sift through the garbage to find an interesting moment here or there. I'd rather just enjoy the original trilogy for what it is at this point, I don't need to watch them fuck up the story and characters even further. They have shown they are inept & careless.

If I hear a film in the franchise is good to great I will give it a chance though, as I did with Rogue One and was pleasantly surprised. It seems a good movie is far more likely to come out of the side movies anyway than the main trilogy at this point.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I'd rather just enjoy the original trilogy for what it is at this point, I don't need to watch them fuck up the story and characters even further.

That’s my plan. I hope that with Disney buying fox we can get an HD release of the OT theatrical versions finally. That’s all I want, that’s all I need. I don’t need to keep giving them my money anymore.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

That’s my plan. I hope that with Disney buying fox we can get an HD release of the OT theatrical versions finally. That’s all I want, that’s all I need. I don’t need to keep giving them my money anymore.

To be fair a lot of the remastering of the originals was actually well done, it was just all that terrible extra CGI testing group stuff and other additions that needs to be dumped.

I mean there are a few FX scenes(that space slug reaching after the Falcon for example) I wouldn't mind seeing redone with CGI but nothing that really makes a big shift.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

To be fair a lot of the remastering of the originals was actually well done, it was just all that terrible extra CGI testing group stuff and other additions that needs to be dumped.

I mean there are a few FX scenes(that space slug reaching after the Falcon for example) I wouldn't mind seeing redone with CGI but nothing that really makes a big shift.

That’s my point, I want all the extra shit gone that started being introduced in the special edition in 1997 and slowly added to with subsequent DVD and Bluray releases. No Hayden Force Ghost please.

 

[Peteyandjia]

That’s my plan. I hope that with Disney buying fox we can get an HD release of the OT theatrical versions finally. That’s all I want, that’s all I need. I don’t need to keep giving them my money anymore.

I have the original trilogy in pretty high-quality .mkv files, which were ripped from the laserdiscs, which to my knowledge are the best quality versions released of the original (untouched) trilogy. I figure that's the best we're ever gonna get. I don't expect these schlocky corporations to suddenly grow integrity out of nowhere & cater to the fans of the old shit.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

That’s my point, I want all the extra shit gone that started being introduced in the special edition in 1997 and slowly added to with subsequent DVD and Bluray releases. No Hayden Force Ghost please.

Rogue One did actually show that modern CGI can merge with the look of the originals very well, wouldn't mind seeing a lot of the original Deatstar run redone as CGI for example provided it kept to the same kind of material.

Beyond Geedo shooting first the worst extra to me has to be that new song in Jabba's palace, I mean the original was a little cheesey but did still had some scuzzy space funk to it...



...the new thing is just hidous cartoonish vegas musak...

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I have the original trilogy in pretty high-quality .mkv files, which were ripped from the laserdiscs, which to my knowledge are the best quality versions released of the original (untouched) trilogy. I figure that's the best we're ever gonna get. I don't expect these schlocky corporations to suddenly grow integrity out of nowhere & cater to the fans of the old shit.

I have the original trilogy “limited edition” that was released in 2004. Each movie has two discs, one with the special edition, the other with the laserdisc theatrical versions, so failing all else I do at least have those.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Rogue One did actually show that modern CGI can merge with the look of the originals very well, wouldn't mind seeing a lot of the original Deatstar run redone as CGI for example provided it kept to the same kind of material.

Beyond Geedo shooting first the worst extra to me has to be that new song in Jabba's palace, I mean the original was a little cheesey but did still had some scuzzy space funk to it...



...the new thing is just hidous cartoonish vegas musak...

If you could transform Jar Jar Binks, Dexter Jettster and Rose Tico into a song, it would be Jedi Rocks.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I have the original trilogy “limited edition” that was released in 2004. Each movie has two discs, one with the special edition, the other with the laserdisc theatrical versions, so failing all else I do at least have those.

The laserdisc versions did kind of feel like a backhanded gesture to me, give the fans the originals but in the worst quality you can get away with.

If you could transform Jar Jar Binks, Dexter Jettster and Rose Tico into a song, it would be Jedi Rocks.

The only explanation I can offer is that Lucas has a thing for Rodian girls to the degree he didn't listen to the music or see the CGI work.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

If you could transform Jar Jar Binks, Dexter Jettster and Rose Tico into a song, it would be Jedi Rocks.

I’ve always had ROTJ as my second favourite Star Wars movie after Empire, but I recently watched the Honest Movie Trailer for it and realized that with all the changes made over the years to it by Lucas meant to remind you of the prequels it becomes the worst of the OT, like Vader’s new “no! Nooooooo!” When he kills the Emperor, or adding fucking Gungans to the montage of celebrations across the galaxy following the Empire’s defeat “weeza free!”

 

[Peteyandjia]

Beyond Geedo shooting first the worst extra to me has to be that new song in Jabba's palace, I mean the original was a little cheesey but did still had some scuzzy space funk to it...



...the new thing is just hidous cartoonish vegas musak...

Watching this makes me want to beat George Lucas with a chain

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I’ve always had ROTJ as my second favourite Star Wars movie after Empire, but I recently watched the Honest Movie Trailer for it and realized that with all the changes made over the years to it by Lucas meant to remind you of the prequels it becomes the worst of the OT, like Vader’s new “no! Nooooooo!” When he kills the Emperor, or adding fucking Gungans to the montage of celebrations across the galaxy following the Empire’s defeat “weeza free!”

I forget about the "nooooo", that really is the worst offence coming at such a vital moment, the rest I can look past rather more.

I go back and forth between A New Hope and Jedi personally, the latter has some dodgy areas but the good stuff is up there with the best of Empire and maybe even above it.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I’ve always had ROTJ as my second favourite Star Wars movie after Empire, but I recently watched the Honest Movie Trailer for it and realized that with all the changes made over the years to it by Lucas meant to remind you of the prequels it becomes the worst of the OT, like Vader’s new “no! Nooooooo!” When he kills the Emperor, or adding fucking Gungans to the montage of celebrations across the galaxy following the Empire’s defeat “weeza free!”

It's amazing how much he undercut his own triumphs achieved in the original versions. The final scenes involving Luke, Vader and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi are the best stuff in the entire series of films.

I've said earlier, Lucas seems to not appreciate the value of silence. He's like the filmmaker version of the guy that starts yapping about anything when the conversation takes a pause for three seconds, simply because he can't bear the silence. Adding the scream as Luke falls in Empire, and the NOOO as Vader throws the Emperor down the shaft effectively ruin two of the best scenes in film history.

He achieved great things with the first three films, but when it came time for the prequels, he had nobody to pull him back from his "more more more" approach. More lightsabers, more droids, more people in the frame, more R2D2 noises, more ships in the frame.

The original trilogy is like the Mona Lisa, and the prequels are like the Mona Lisa with all her friends crammed in at her sides, some castles and dragons behind her, some fireworks going off above her, she's holding three fans in one hand and five sceptres in the other... George Lucas is brilliant, but he can't govern himself effectively.

 

[FyrFytr998]

They could do new things. Now that the original cast is out, they're gonna mine the established characters, like the young Solo movie.

Hollywood, Disney, do something new, please. Make it about something other than moments that you can jam R2 and 3PO into, something other than the new Darth whatever, a clear antagonist, with comprehensible plans and motivations.
Enough with light sabers.

This statement right here is why I rank Rogue One so high on my personal scale. Yeah there were a couple established characters, but for the most part it was brand new to me.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I forget about the "nooooo", that really is the worst offence coming at such a vital moment, the rest I can look past rather more.

I go back and forth between A New Hope and Jedi personally, the latter has some dodgy areas but the good stuff is up there with the best of Empire and maybe even above it.

I agree. Some people can’t stand Greedo shooting first, Jedi Rocks, or taking out Yub Nub and putting in Force Ghost Hayden, but to me “nooo!” is easily the worst. So out of character for the perpetually stoic Vader.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I agree. Some people can’t stand Greedo shooting first, Jedi Rocks, or taking out Yub Nub and putting in Force Ghost Hayden, but to me “nooo!” is easily the worst. So out of character for the perpetually stoic Vader.

That scene especially is played so totally on stoicism with Vaders emotionless mask reflecting the lighting blasts which makes it even worse.