Somebody please show me the receipts!

[AmonTobin]

Back when Jones called out Ngannou in 2021, he wanted big money. But at the time, Ngannou wasn't the champ.

The UFC wasn't willing to pay it. Part of this is likely because of covid restrictions, lack of crowd, etc. But you simply can't justify a 10+ million dollar payday unless he's fighting for a belt.

.

So it was an empty call out from Jones. Again, you don’t know how much money Jones agreed to, or what he ended up getting paid. Have you ever heard of bluffing? It’s a thing that can happen in negotiations like this.

 

[Shilajit]

If a fighter was seeking monetary compensation for not getting the fight they were promised and the price tag with it, they would seek financial resolution but they could’t legally obligate a fighter to fight or to fight a specific person. Furthermore, Ngannou vs Jones was never officially announced.

Financial compensation wouldn't be the only issue though.

If that singular fight was the main reason why Frank stayed with the organization, then he could also have justification for release of contract.

Again, these are all things an organization as big as the UFC and WME would never allow to happen. Unless they truly knew Jones was committed to fighting for the belt, they wouldn't have offered him that contract.

It wouldn't make any sense. Offer him the biggest fight in the sport to get him to stay and then pull the rug out from underneath it?

 

[Shilajit]

So it was an empty call out from Jones. Again, you don’t know how much money Jones agreed to, or what he ended up getting paid. Have you ever heard of bluffing? It’s a thing that can happen in negotiations like this.

I would assume he got a solid pay bump, since he seems very happy with the new contract.

Specifically said he feels appreciated by the organization.

 

[HHJ]

I would assume he got a solid pay bump, since he seems very happy with the new contract.

Specifically said he feels appreciated by the organization.

UFC had to pony up,with Ngannou's departure.

 

[AmonTobin]

Financial compensation wouldn't be the only issue though.

If that singular fight was the main reason why Frank stayed with the organization, then he could also have justification for release of contract.

Again, these are all things an organization as big as the UFC and WME would never allow to happen. Unless they truly knew Jones was committed to fighting for the belt, they wouldn't have offered him that contract.

It doesnt make any sense.

You’re implying that Jones had finalized a contract with UFC before Ngannou did but there’s no proof of that. In fact the article you provided indicates that the public knowledge at the time was that Jones was waiting for UFC to make final decisions about Ngannou to find out his status, before Jones had committed to anything.

 

[AmonTobin]

UFC had to pony up,with Ngannou's departure.

Ngannou’s release creates a HW void that arguably makes Jones suddenly even more needed and valued. Who benefits most from the Ngannou departure? Jones does. He can get paid Ngannou money without even having to fight Ngannou. What’s the easiest way for Jones to sabotage the Ngannou match? Ask for too much money.

 

[Shilajit]

You’re implying that Jones had finalized a contract with UFC before Ngannou did but there’s no proof of that. In fact the article you provided indicates that the public knowledge at the time was that Jones was waiting for UFC to make final decisions about a Ngannou to find out his status, before Jones had committed to anything.

Not everything is going to be handed to us on a silver platter. Sometimes we are left to our devices.

Chael said he was back on his podcast and they were just waiting on Ngannou.

Jones himself said he wants to fight in December of that year and that he would dominate at heavyweight.

Various media outlets said the UFC was targeting March 4th, the date he ended up fighting on as his return date. But were just waiting to see what Ngannou decided to do in order to determine the opponent.

If Jones hadn't signed yet, they wouldn't be announcing dates. The UFC and Dana would also let it be known in the public sphere, just as they did with Ngannou.

Around the same time period, Dana was asked several questions about Jones during press conferences and said they're looking at having him fight soon.

Every indication suggests Jones had already come to an agreement with the UFC in the last quarter of 2022.

 

[Shilajit]

Ngannou’s release creates a HW void that arguably makes Jones suddenly even more needed and valued. Who benefits most from the Ngannou departure? Jones does. He can get paid Ngannou money without even having to fight Ngannou. What’s the easiest way for Jones to sabotage the Ngannou match? Ask for too much money.

Only one who sabotaged the Jones match was Ngannou. He was offered the fight and didn't sign the contract, by his own admission.

 

[AmonTobin]

Only one who sabotaged the Jones match was Ngannou. He was offered the fight and didn't sign the contract, by his own admission.

So you can’t admit it’s possible Jones was ducking and had every intention of ducking and now he’s doing it again with Pavlovich.

 

[Shilajit]

So you can’t admit it’s possible Jones was ducking and had every intention of ducking and now he’s doing it again with Pavlovich.

This just seems like some weird Jones bias. Deep down you only want to acknowledge what validates this narrative of Jones being a puss, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

There are profound holes in your thinking but you aren't willing to budge an inch and admit it.

The only reason that fight didn't happen was because of Frank. He was offered it, all he had to do was sign the contract. But instead he left the organization.

This is the basic, common sense of a rational human.

Just think of what you said earlier, "maybe Jones only signed under the condition that he only fights for the belt if it's vacant."

I'm not sure you realize just how much bias and goalpost shifting is required to arrive at such a warped conclusion

 

[AmonTobin]

This just seems like some weird Jones bias. Deep down you only want to acknowledge what validates this narrative of Jones being a puss, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

There are profound holes in your thinking but you aren't willing to budge an inch and admit it.

The only reason that fight didn't happen was because of Frank. He was offered it, all he had to do was sign the contract. But instead he left the organization.

This is the basic, common sense of a rational human.

Just think of what you said earlier, "maybe Jones only signed under the condition that he only fights for the belt if it's vacant."

I'm not sure you realize just how much bias and goalpost shifting is required to arrive at such a warped conclusion

There’s been no “goalpost shifting”. My questions in the OP remain the same and yet you’ve tied yourself in knots pretending to give a definitive evidence based answer you don’t actually have. Stop gaslighting and admit when you’ve come up empty handed.

 

[AmonTobin]

Jones is a terrible style matchup for Ngannou.

So the idea that he was scared to fight someone that he most likely walks through is kinda interesting.

Translation: “Duhhh Jones is better than him anyway so they don’t even need to fight”.

 

[Shilajit]

There’s been no “goalpost shifting”. My questions in the OP remain the same and you yet you’ve tied yourself in knots pretending to give a definitive evidence based answer you don’t actually have. Stop gassing lighting and admit when you’ve come up empty handed.

I think you've been proven wrong and shown the larger picture throughout this entire thread.

But you dont listen and here you are back at square 1, saying that Jones was a pussy, he ducked.

When the exact opposite is true.

 

[AmonTobin]

I think you've been proven wrong and shown the larger picture throughout this entire thread.

But you dont listen and here you are back at square 1, saying that Jones was a pussy, he ducked.

When the exact opposite is true.

If Jones is your favourite fighter of all time and he can do no wrong, then his moment of cowardice must be all the more painful for you and I understand how difficult it must be to face.
It’s tough when our favourite fighters let us down.

 

[Shilajit]

There’s been no “goalpost shifting”. My questions in the OP remain the same and yet you’ve tied yourself in knots pretending to give a definitive evidence based answer you don’t actually have. Stop gassing lighting and admit when you’ve come up empty handed.

It seems you're doing everything in your power to avoid acknowledging the truth in the points ive made here.

You are dead set on doubling down on this Jones is a pussy narrative.

But the reality is that Jones had already come to an agreement in the last quarter of 2022. Hence the date released to the media outlets, which ended up being the date he fought on.

Chael sonnen confirmed Jones was back as well and they were just waiting for Ngannou to finish contract negotiations to determine an opponent, but that they had a date.

The UFC would not have offered Ngannou the 3 fight deal with the Jones fight as the capstone unless he'd already come to an agreement and was committed to fighting.

Critical thinking 101

 

[AmonTobin]

Let’s make a poll to see how many people think you’re wrong.

 

[Shilajit]

If Jones is your favourite fighter of all time and he can do no wrong, then his moment of cowardice must be all the more painful for you and I understand how difficult it must be to face.
It’s tough when our favourite fighters let us down.

I think he would've walked through Ngannou rather easily. I've analyzed the fight many times and it's a very bad style matchup for Frank. Which was further encapsulated after the Gane / Ngannou bout.

Peak DC was the hardest matchup for Jones. More so than anyone he could fight at HW.

So the idea of him being a coward is rather interesting.

I think your whole thought process is predicted on this belief that Jones was scared to fight him and that Ngannou Knocks him out.

As such, you completely ignored the truth and evidence which showed the exact opposite to what you're suggesting.

By Ngannou's own testimony, he was offered 8 million for the Jones fight and turned it down.

But, your take away and conclusion is that Jones ducked.

This is a thought experiment indeed. It's quite shocking when someone is at this level of delusion.

 

[Shilajit]

Let’s make a poll to see how many people think you’re wrong.

What I've said is the truth. I'm sure 50% of sherdog holds sentiment just as dumb as yours. That doesn't mean anything though.

Because what I've said here is common sense.

Jones called out Ngannou in 2021. Spent 2 years gaining weight for heavyweight, knowing that Ngannou is the champ and thats the fight that will need to happen for the UFC to pay big money. Promoted it on podcasts, interviews, tweets, etc. Said he was gonna dominate him and make his first HW fight look easy.

Your take away from this is that he's a pussy and he's scared.

So then tell me, why did Chael sonnen say he was back? Why did the UFC schedule a date for his return, which is the date he ended up fighting on. Why was Ngannou offered the fight as the main capstone and bargaining chip to keep him in the organization for 3 more fights?

Why did Dana insinuate Jones was back?

If Jones hadn't signed, then it should've been publicly known they were still negotiating just like everyone else. Instead they booked an arena and date. Why?

Ngannou was offered the fight and turned it down by his own testimony. He also said one of his biggest regrets will be not fighting Jon Jones.

It's very clear to any rational human who was the reason for the fight not happening.

It's the guy who didn't sign the contract and subsequently left the organization.

 

[AmonTobin]

I think he would've walked through Ngannou rather easily. I've analyzed the fight many times and it's a very bad style matchup for Frank. Which was further encapsulated after the Gane / Ngannou bout.

Peak DC was the hardest matchup for Jones. More so than anyone he could fight at HW.

So the idea of him being a coward is rather interesting.

I think your whole thought process is predicted on this belief that Jones was scared to fight him and that Ngannou Knocks him out.

As such, you completely ignored the truth and evidence which showed the exact opposite to what you're suggesting.

By Ngannou's own testimony, he was offered 8 million for the Jones fight and turned it down.

But, your take away and conclusion is that Jones ducked.

This is a thought experiment indeed. It's quite shocking when someone is at this level of delusion.

I never said Ngannou knocks him out. Don’t put words in my mouth.
As for DC, not being scared of one fighter doesn’t make Jones immune to fear of another. You’re also erroneously comparing Jones’ career long confidence level at LHW to his confidence level at HW.
Jones ducking Ngannou has nothing to do with whether or not you think Ngannou can beat him, or whether or not he was afraid of DC. I suspect Jones’ greatest fear is of of losing, and it affecting his record, not of what Ngannou will specifically do to him, just the fear of losing. Francis was that fighter and Champion that brings that very real possibility.

 

[AmonTobin]

“It’s impossible that Jones ducked Ngannou because he’s not scared of anybody and he would beat him without any doubt.”
You’re too sure of yourself. This is just arrogance and bias, it’s not objective at all.