So do you Consider R. Kelly a rapist?

Madmick said:
I agree that video sucks, and I agree that she isn't attractive. I also place no value on these when evaluating a singer. I hate that song, as a song, but I did appreciated her balls with the lyrics. In 2004 R. Kelly was one of the biggest and most powerful R&B singers in music, and short of saying his name explicitly, she was openly calling for him to be ostracized from the industry, there. She was as much a nobody then as she is now.

Objectively, as a vocalist, in just about every way that vocalism can be measured objectively, she is superior to Fergie, who can't even stay on key in live performances, but that isn't why Fergie blew up. It was her distinct sound, style, and attitude (as well as her material). "London Bridge" didn't sound like anything else at the time. She's also the type who benefits most from studio takes and sound engineering polish. I am not surprised or bitter that Fergie became a much larger star; rather it was just my expectations for Esthero were confounded, and the mention of Fergie is only a matter of their common denominator as breaking out with the Black-Eyed Peas. I've read Fergie has worked on it with coaches over the years, knowing how bad she is, but as a vocalist she is still as bad as they come:



You can't make gold out of lead. That's Roseanne-level. Doubt Fergie cares. Some of the greatest and most influential musicians in history are quite poor singing talents. They still find a way to emotionally connect.

Esthero is one of those artists for me who dropped a master class album with her freshman effort, but now seems doomed to spend the rest of her career living in its shadow. The only song I liked off that second album was "Everyday is a Holiday with You". When I thought of her because of this thread, I jaunted over to Wiki to see what her newest stuff might be, and I noticed Breath from Another was nominated for the Polaris music prize for the greatest Canadian album of its decade alongside classics like Funeral and You Forgot It In People:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Polaris_Music_Prize




"Superheroes", "Country Livin", "That Girl", and "Heaven Sent" are the other top tracks.
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Thanks for clarifying. I think it's somewhat ironic that she's wearing tape over her mouth in that video while calling for someone else to be silenced (even if that person is a scumbag). I guess you can say that she's technically a better singer than Fergie, but in pop music it's more about studio takes and tone than technique. I also think it's much more about the songs than the singer. Some relatively shitty singers have good/great songs and they sing them like they mean them and become icons.

Celine Dion is incredible and successful, but I could give a fuck less about her or her songs (oddly enough, R. Kelly wrote, produced and co-sang one of her biggest hits). Benny Mardones is one of my favorite singers in terms of ability, but his material was shit and he was a one hit wonder with one of his few good songs. R. Kelly is great from a technical standpoint, he's got the look, his songs have been good/great consistently enough over the years, he can write, produce both for himself and for others. His genre might not be for everybody, but I'd say he was the best singer of his generation, at least for R&B. To me, best singer of that generation is between him and Layne Staley. I'd probably give it to Layne Staley because I'm a BIG Alice in Chains fan.
 
R. Kelly Slammed by Estranged Daughter ... He's a 'Monster'
Jackie Blue said:
Thanks for clarifying. I think it's somewhat ironic that she's wearing tape over her mouth in that video while calling for someone else to be silenced (even if that person is a scumbag). I guess you can say that she's technically a better singer than Fergie, but in pop music it's more about studio takes and tone than technique. I also think it's much more about the songs than the singer. Some relatively shitty singers have good/great songs and they sing them like they mean them and become icons.

Celine Dion is incredible and successful, but I could give a fuck less about her or her songs (oddly enough, R. Kelly wrote, produced and co-sang one of her biggest hits). Benny Mardones is one of my favorite singers in terms of ability, but his material was shit and he was a one hit wonder with one of his few good songs. R. Kelly is great from a technical standpoint, he's got the look, his songs have been good/great consistently enough over the years, he can write, produce both for himself and for others. His genre might not be for everybody, but I'd say he was the best singer of his generation, at least for R&B. To me, best singer of that generation is between him and Layne Staley. I'd probably give it to Layne Staley because I'm a BIG Alice in Chains fan.
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That's how I feel about Celine's music. When I say someone is a better vocalist than someone else it's only ever intended as a commentary on voicecraft and characteristics of vocal quality. I don't mean to speak to the more subjective dimensions. When I do, I switch the term to "singer".

Esthero herself sings a bit too much through her head/nose, she doesn't have exceptional range, and she has weak diaphragm support in the lower ranges. Nevertheless, first of those is itself a stylistic choice that she makes work for her in a fashion that I appreciate her beyond what talent and skill she possesses. You'll notice that she often chooses to sing more shrill during the opening verses before a song has really breaks through the clouds with a bridge or chorus (ex. the titular "Breath from Another" I linked). It's her version of what the "drop" is for dubstep. When his crescendo comes, she opens her throat, puts her lungs to work, and her whole timbre changes to a more classically beautiful, fuller sound. I love the Bossa Nova influence in her modern R&B style (same with Feist who also made that same Polaris nominee list).

Fergie is one of those singers who has great musical sensibility, but leans hard on those sound engineers and their instruments: a wall of sound singer. She's not someone I would send out with nothing but a piano or a guitar to entertain a crowd. Her flaws would quickly come to the forefront in that environment, and it would be impossible to hide them. That's what happened in that national anthem debacle. That's why a cappella is the ultimate test of pure vocalism.
 
Steven_Universe said:
I watched the documentary with my girl last night,

I saw a lot of girls saying they were charmed or fell in love with R. Kelly and didn’t know the difference between right and wrong because they were too young.

The age of consent in Canada was 14 until recently, like 10 years ago I think.

No matter what it’s absolutely fucked and sick for a 31 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old. He deserves punishment.

I just don’t feel right throwing the word kiddy rapist around when it’s a strong term and He’s not what I think of when I say That.
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yes

/thread
 
What I find more disturbing than R Kelly sleeping with 14 year old girls is 14 year old girls wandering around in this life with zero guidance from an adult, and more importantly protection from a father figure.

I'm not victim blaming and I think harsh punishment should be delt out to convicted rapists, but it's shockingly telling about our society that there are enough ignorant/unprotected people walking around just waiting to be victimized.
 
Mark Hunts FIST said:
R kelly isnt a rapist.
He is a child molesting, manipulating, control freak who tricks 15 yr old girls into being his sex slave.
He should rot in a cell.
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This is a separate from R.Kelly but there is a certain amount of emptiness when someone mentions someone being tricked. Everyone has had someone trick them and being a certain age doesn't shield anyone from that. There is probably a whole legion of people here that worked on their girlfriends until they finally got some. I can understand the argument that there are potential longterm consequences that need to be understood prior to being sexual active. I can understand parents not wanting their kids with a guy who is not their age. Or even the argument for abstinence. But this "their tricking them" is just stupid to me. Parents and educators should be talking with their kids about relationships and people trying manipulate them. The whole their going to trick them statement is really just I didn't raise my kid to not be an idiot.
 
King Koopa said:
The age of consent in Canada is 16. Whether you think it’s morally wrong or not; a 30 year old man and a 16 year old girl who are having consensual sex is NOT illegal. It used to be 14 which I totally disagree with, however
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16? Fucking backwards ass bullshit.
 
Jackie Blue said:
Benny Mardones is one of my favorite singers in terms of ability, but his material was shit and he was a one hit wonder with one of his few good songs.
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Ha one of my drum teachers from back in the day was Benny's drummer.
 
You defintely need to be sick in the head to even be attracted to 13 and 14 year olds. When I see these kids trying to dress sexy I Iaugh. They look ridiculous and you can always tell they're kids.

R Kelly sounds like a hebephile. He likely is not attracted to fully adult features. A ephebophilla would not necessarily be a rapist. But 11-14...yep.
 
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MaxMMA said:
What I find more disturbing than R Kelly sleeping with 14 year old girls is 14 year old girls wandering around in this life with zero guidance from an adult, and more importantly protection from a father figure.

I'm not victim blaming and I think harsh punishment should be delt out to convicted rapists, but it's shockingly telling about our society that there are enough ignorant/unprotected people walking around just waiting to be victimized.
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FWIW, the girl who R. Kelly made the sex tape with came from a solid, middle class family from the suburbs. Her parents were still married. The problem was that R. Kelly still had a good reputation at that time. He was the guy that did I Believe I Can Fly which got sung at every graduation. The girl had aspirations to be a musician just like her aunt Sparkle, who R. Kelly had turned into a minor star at the time (gold album and a hit debut single). Sparkle introduced her to R. Kelly when she was 12 (because she thought R. Kelly could do the same thing for her niece that he had done for her) and things took place from there.

Aaliyah (who also came from a good, middle class family with parents who were still married) also was introduced to Kelly when she was 12 and he wrote and produced a great album for her which turned her into a star. It wasn't until later on that we really found out what was going on. The narrative that his victims didn't have any parental supervision or didn't have fathers isn't completely true. A lot of it was that R. Kelly was seen as a genius, a good religious man, someone to look up to. People didn't realize what a monster he was until AFTER the pee tape came out and all the other allegations since then.
 
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Personally I'd have the sick cunt slaughtered.

Fucking nonse
 
So did he force them and did they say no? I'm not really interested in watching the Doc.

He is for sure a predator, pervert and deviant.
 
SugarKrok said:
You defintely need to be sick in the head to even be attracted to 13 and 14 year olds. When I see these kids trying to dress sexy I Iaugh. They look ridiculous and you can always tell they're kids.

R Kelly sounds like a hebephile. He likely is not attracted to fully adult features. A ephebophilla would not necessarily be a rapist. But 11-14...yep.
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I think he's more of a ephebophile. 14 is the youngest he's been with and they were often older. He's a scumbag regardless of age. He's a narcissist and a sociopath with a need to dominate and control other people.
 
How can guys have a urine fetish when its so difficult to pee with a boner?
 
Funny how these chicks (the 17yo ones) never mention that they got exquisite pleasure with a man of their dreams at that time, with romantic r&b songs in the background.
 
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GordoBarraBJJ said:
So did he force them and did they say no? I'm not really interested in watching the Doc.

He is for sure a predator, pervert and deviant.
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He didn’t force anyone. All the girls were thrilled to be one of R. Kelley’s girlfriend. They were just all 16-17 with the youngest one being 14 which was sick and wrong
 
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