Should the lighter fighters be weighed more heavily all time?

[AldoStillGoat]

Hear me out:

Generally the higher weight classes have had less talent than the lower weight classes (LHW and HW). This could be for a number of reasons.. two of which: more pay in other sports for bigger better players, more rare to find bigger people than smaller ones etc. Especially now that Reebok has taken over and the top end of fighters are getting paid more than ever, it could be a less convincing for big athletes to commit to MMA.

The lighter weight classes generally seem to be a shark tank historically. There are more smaller people than bigger people and smaller people especially in America have a harder time competing in American sports which tend to require bigger bodies.

Even though the lighter weight classes hold the most records for title defenses in a row (which in theory would mean there is lower competition since the belt is changing around less offen), it's less a consequence of low competition and more about the fact that it is harder to win against other small fighters with one punch and due to the sheer volume of smaller fighters, there is a higher chance that one superior fighter would appear to dominate the rest. (At least this is my theory)

So my question to you is, shouldn't we weigh the smaller fighters in higher regard when it comes to P4P and GOAT talks? Yes, the bigger fighters would most likely beat the smaller champs in a fight but the smaller fighters have to be more excellent to remain in the top of the rankings.

On the other hand, it is way harder to hold onto the title at the bigger divisions since anyone can turn your lights off in one punch so longer title defenses at the higher weight classes are impressive.

Should the lighter fighters be weighed more heavily all time or do the bigger fighters have their own set of challenges which allows the smaller fighters to seem more impressive? What do you think?

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

And if the bigger guys were smaller they would ‘move better’?

And if the smaller guys were bigger they might play real sports?

LOL this is a wild thread you have created.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

And if the bigger guys were smaller they would ‘move better’?

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Great way to derail a good topic.

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Great way to derail a good topic.

So you don't even understand your own thread topic and the issues involved?

 

[AldoStillGoat]

So you don't even understand your own thread topic and the issues involved?

What are the issues? That I didn’t dumb it down for you?

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

What are the issues? That I didn’t dumb it down for you?

I’m not the one having troubles here bud.

Maybe dumb it down, for yourself though?

 

[ferrisjso]

Theres a name for this general concept.

Its called P4P.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

Theres a name for this general concept.

Its called P4P.

You didn’t read the thread I guess.

It’s cool. Point taken: don’t make lengthy posts

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

You didn’t read the thread I guess.

It’s cool. Point taken: don’t make lengthy posts

I did, and he probably did too.

I thought his post summed things up really well. I took the thread the same way he did. Not being antagonistic - but if your premise is different to what it seems to he and I, then yes you may have to spell it out for us. Or, maybe if you think it though you might see how it really is just a P4P discussion.

My first post was supposed to be enthusiastic, with a little humour as I have seen how many P4P threads go... thought I was throwing you a bone as you seem to be having a tough time on here lately. Was surprised that you took it as a thread derailment and got shirty with me.

Anyhew... if you want me to delete my posts and see how the thread goes without them, just say the word.

Chama.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

I did, and he probably did too.

I thought his post summed things up really well. I took the thread the same way he did. Not being antagonistic - but if your premise is different to what it seems to he and I, then yes you may have to spell it out for us. Or, maybe if you think it though you might see how it really is just a P4P discussion.

My first post was supposed to be enthusiastic, with a little humour as I have seen how many P4P threads go... thought I was throwing you a bone as you seem to be having a tough time on here lately. Was surprised that you took it as a thread derailment and got shirty with me.

Anyhew... if you want me to delete my posts and see how the thread goes without them, just say the word.

Chama.

No. This isn’t just a p4p discussion. I’m saying should the lighter weight classes be MORE heavily weighed as opposed to bigger weight classes in general.

p4p ranks all fighters regardless of weight on an even playing field right?

I’m asking whether everyone should be giving more credit to lighter weight fighters on the p4p list since the lower divisions have more competition (so it seems)

 

[StonedLemur]

I enjoyed the read, its a familiar concept through different eyes...I always appreciate a different look at things sir.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

I did, and he probably did too.

I thought his post summed things up really well. I took the thread the same way he did. Not being antagonistic - but if your premise is different to what it seems to he and I, then yes you may have to spell it out for us. Or, maybe if you think it though you might see how it really is just a P4P discussion.

My first post was supposed to be enthusiastic, with a little humour as I have seen how many P4P threads go... thought I was throwing you a bone as you seem to be having a tough time on here lately. Was surprised that you took it as a thread derailment and got shirty with me.

Anyhew... if you want me to delete my posts and see how the thread goes without them, just say the word.

Chama.

I edited the thread a bit maybe I didn’t explain the premise clearly enough.

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

No. This isn’t just a p4p discussion. I’m saying should the lighter weight classes be MORE heavily weighed as opposed to bigger weight classes in general.

p4p ranks all fighters regardless of weight on an even playing field right?

I’m asking whether everyone should be giving more credit to lighter weight fighters on the p4p list since the lower divisions have more competition (so it seems)

It's just very complex - if you talk it through though it kind of evens out, and probably unavoidably comes back to pretty much a P4P conversation.

1. I’m saying should the lighter weight classes be MORE heavily weighed as opposed to bigger weight classes in general.
- Often they are, from my perspective, including in P4P discussions

2. p4p ranks all fighters regardless of weight on an even playing field right?
- There are so many opinions on P4P, so many ways of looking at it. This is why discussions of it are usually somewhat controversial. Essentially is is just a fantasy, though treated seriously. There have been many, many long discussions on here about it, might be worth checking to see if any survived the purges.

3. I’m asking whether everyone should be giving more credit to lighter weight fighters on the p4p list since the lower divisions have more competition (so it seems)
The competition pool is relative to a degree, obtusely I tried to dress this in my first post. There are 'more of them' but they are not losing their top talent to other pro sports etc.

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

I edited the thread a bit maybe I didn’t explain the premise clearly enough.

I gotta run - go do some crap but will check it out when I can.

 

[Fedorgasm]

I think it evens out.

Little guys can claim they're better because there's a larger talent pool so if someone defends their belt 10 times they're a legend.

But the big guys can claim they're better because every punch could be a KO at that weight. So if someone defends their title 10 times they're a legend.

Basically they each have pros and cons that cancel each other out.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

It's just very complex - if you talk it through though it kind of evens out, and probably unavoidably comes back to pretty much a P4P conversation.

1. I’m saying should the lighter weight classes be MORE heavily weighed as opposed to bigger weight classes in general.
- Often they are, from my perspective, including in P4P discussions

2. p4p ranks all fighters regardless of weight on an even playing field right?
- There are so many opinions on P4P, so many ways of looking at it. This is why discussions of it are usually somewhat controversial. Essentially is is just a fantasy, though treated seriously. There have been many, many long discussions on here about it, might be worth checking to see if any survived the purges.

3. I’m asking whether everyone should be giving more credit to lighter weight fighters on the p4p list since the lower divisions have more competition (so it seems)
The competition pool is relative to a degree, obtusely I tried to dress this in my first post. There are 'more of them' but they are not losing their top talent to other pro sports etc.

1. Why do you think they are weighed more heavily? Are you factoring in who would beat who in a fight?

2. I see. I guess p4p can have many interpretations but I never seen any discussion on Sherdog on whether lower weight fighters should be ranked more highly p4p because of their level of competition. I’ve heard people say that the competition is higher in general at the lower weight classes but never seen anyone actually draw that into their argument as to why X lighter fighter should be ranked best because of this fact.

3. So you agree that there is more talent in the lighter divisions? It’s interesting that the longest reigning champ in the heavier divisions (Jones) comes from a bloodline of all star NFL
players and that there haven’t been many long reigns in the higher divisions. Is this a consequence of less talent and the right fighter coming along?

 

[AldoStillGoat]

I think it evens out.

Little guys can claim they're better because there's a larger talent pool so if someone defends their belt 10 times they're a legend.

But the big guys can claim they're better because every punch could be a KO at that weight. So if someone defends their title 10 times they're a legend.

Basically they each have pros and cons that cancel each other out.

And the bigger guys have less talent at the top while the smaller guys are harder to stop thus they would have longer reigns and less of a chance of losing due to a mistake.

It’s hard to quantify exactly why the lighter weights are defending for longer than the bigger guys are.

More competition should equal the belt changing hands more often but that’s more so seen in the HW and LHW division. While the lower weight classes are seeing longer title reigns and that should be indicative of less competition. Truly baffling.

 

[laleggenda27]

TLDR

The larger fighters would obliterate the smaller fighters. That's all I need to know. Everything else is just mental gymnastics.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

TLDR

The larger fighters would obliterate the smaller fighters. That's all I need to know. Everything else is just mental gymnastics.

Yeah but would you not be more impressed if lighter weights were overcoming bigger challenges?

 

[UFCFantasyMVP]

Rogan used to say DJ was the best ever. And it's hard to argue. He was an amazing talent. And I miss him, 'cause we see big guys like Jones dominate and be creative in there. But Mighty Mouse was incredible too. Like what he did against Borg is once in a lifetime stuff. Now DJ's grappling and doing well against any heavyweight he gets matched up with in the open-weight division. DJ would tap out someone like Bradley Martyn so quick that it would shock the hell out of every single person that couldn't tell you what MMA stands for.