Opinion Should South Edmonton Bar be shut down?

[HIMBOB]

Liable for overserving but nothing like manslaughter or closing the bar.

 

[Bargey]

In Canada it is illegal to overserve.

putting aside the idiocy of that law if it is a law...
How would they prove he was overserved?
Has nobody ever bought a drink for someone else? What if he was getting drinks bought for him or buying them through someone else and then the bar caught him drunk and booted him?

 

[tonni]

How does anyone know he did not drink after getting kicked out of the bar?

If you over drink, you did it to yourself it is not the bars fault, unless the bar tied him down and was funneling alcohol down his throat, then and only then would it be the bars fault.

I agree to an extent. Alcohol very quickly overrides the rational part of your mind and it fogs your sense of responsibility. Some people are more vulnerable than others to this. It's very hard to tell, once you're on a roll, when you've been overdrinking. Drunk people are not the best judges of their own behaviour and of how far down the tipsy road they've gone. That's why it's the bar's responsibility not to overserve.

Is it their responsibility he died? I don't think so, unless you want to make accountable every bar for every drunk person that walks out. I guess there's some logic behind it actually, like how a heroin dealer is somewhere responsible for the havoc his drugs wreak.

 

[tonni]

The law also makes it clear that if you get someone drunk you have to get them home safely.

That's some vital information.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Those establishments are a dirty business. What benefit do these nightclubs bring to our society? The bar should be replaced with a youth center.

 

[nhbbear]

I feel for the family, that sucks, but he was responsible for his actions and decisions. He was made to leave because he was too drunk, and yet he was sent out with a friend, and they made it to a gas station and could have called a cab. Instead, he “wanders off” and freezes under a car. This is not the bar’s fault. He was an adult, and he made those choices.

There are so many bars in the US(i know this wasn’t Canada) that should be shut down because of the constant fights and shootings because they cater to gangbangers. Rarely does this happen, but people want to protest a bar for removing a really drunk guy-that did his own drinking-even though he was “overserved” but how many drinks did his friends buy him? Again, the bar is not responsible for this death, especially since he left with a friend and made it to a gas station.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Caveat Emptor. The kid wasn't forced to drink. He chose to get so drunk he couldn't even walk home. While it's a tragedy for his family, it's not the fault of the bar staff or owners.

 

[Stoic1]

Ban alcohol.

If it only saves one life it is w
orth it. 88k per year here in the US.

 

[Badger67]

Then disregard that part. How are the wrongful death cases handled up there?

If they can prove he was over served its the servers and the establishments fault. Its in your liquor license and smart serve license to not over serve or you are liable.
He should have been cut off earlier and ordered a cab; edmonton gets cold and with alcohol in your system like that you can freeze to death by not realizing you are getting colder.
But who knows if anything will happen since apparently its the second time.

 

[Badger67]

putting aside the idiocy of that law if it is a law...
How would they prove he was overserved?
Has nobody ever bought a drink for someone else? What if he was getting drinks bought for him or buying them through someone else and then the bar caught him drunk and booted him?

Blood alcohol content and circumstances of death IE freezing to death. Whether he was naked or had a parka on is not a factor.

Irrelevant unfortunately. Bartenders are responsible for everyone drinking and to watch them dilligently to ensure they arent over served or over intoxicated. Even if they never once sold him specifically a drink, they are responsible for his drinking at the establishment.

 

[Bargey]

Blood alcohol content and circumstances of death IE freezing to death. Whether he was naked or had a parka on is not a factor.

Irrelevant unfortunately. Bartenders are responsible for everyone drinking and to watch them dilligently to ensure they arent over served or over intoxicated. Even if they never once sold him specifically a drink, they are responsible for his drinking at the establishment.

No that’s not how the law works, sorry. I’m pretty sure that Canada is a common law country and if a law is impossible to follow or unreasonably absurd, there can be no conviction or penalty.

 

[Badger67]

No that’s not how the law works, sorry. I’m pretty sure that Canada is a common law country and if a law is impossible to follow or unreasonably absurd, there can be no conviction or penalty.

Read this. People have been legally held responsible for someone drunk driving and killing someone. Specifically read pages 7 then page 23 for list of penalties violating any aspect of these, as page 7 pertains to over serving specifically and page 23 details a list of penalties most of which tend to be fines but imprisonment can occur.. Case studies of law follow afterward.
Liquor Laws and You - Legislative Assembly of Alberta

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

So it seems there is some precedent for some kind of legal charges but no precedent whatsoever for the bar being shut down.

This seems like an example of our modern outrage culture where getting people fired is more desirable to most than getting someone charged with a crime.

 

[Don Quixote]

If you can’t drink responsibly, you shouldn’t be drinking. Not the bars fault.

 

[MaxMMA]

Some drunk idiots lost accountability of one of their drinking buddies and now it's the bars fault?

Sounds like the shittiest friends of the year to me.

 

[Bargey]

Read this. People have been legally held responsible for someone drunk driving and killing someone. Specifically read pages 7 then page 23 for list of penalties violating any aspect of these, as page 7 pertains to over serving specifically and page 23 details a list of penalties most of which tend to be fines but imprisonment can occur.. Case studies of law follow afterward.
Liquor Laws and You - Legislative Assembly of Alberta

I can’t access that link but there is no law that can impose a duty that is impossible or nonsensically optimistic, to meet.

 

[Badger67]

I can’t access that link but there is no law that can impose a duty that is impossible or nonsensically optimistic, to meet.

Copy and paste the title into google it should pop up.
They can and do here. Its in the actual Act of serving, and in law people have been held accountable. Ive resided in alberta and in Ontario and have my smart serve here in ON, there is no difference between them in these regards. Main difference is age of consumption; 18 vs 19.

 

[Bargey]

Copy and paste the title into google it should pop up.
They can and do here. Its in the actual Act of serving, and in law people have been held accountable. Ive resided in alberta and in Ontario and have my smart serve here in ON, there is no difference between them in these regards. Main difference is age of consumption; 18 vs 19.

So tell me then, if a person is sitting away in a corner quietly sipping on something and is drunk, then leaves with a friend in a good enough state to get to a gas station, how is it practicable that should they come to some harm, the bar is responsible? Does Canada not have the principle ‘novus actus intervenus’?

 

[Post 2 Decision]

People are responsible for their own actions. It was solely his job to make sure he can go out, have fun, and arrive alive by the end of the night.

No babysitters for 20 year old adults

It's your own fault if you drink too much

 

[ultramanhyata]

Note that most of the same people who leap to the defense of this bar will call down vengeance from heaven on needle exchange programs and safe-shoot rooms.

(Although, on second consideration, maybe it is consistent in that they're ultimately in favor of whatever makes it more likely for an addict to lose their life.)