Should defense be scored?

[fightfan70]

Defense needs a lot more weight. Stuffing 13 takedowns is more impressive than them landing 1 with 3 seconds left trying to 'steal the round'.

this is one of the bigger problems in the 10 point boxing scoring system used for mma
i like the old pride rules myself. the fight should be scored as a whole.
the guy winning in the end would likely win a real fight.
jut dont leave it to the judges i guess. otherwise robbery factor is in effect

 

[jfrito]

tha fuck ts? answer = 2 10 minute rounds, whoever does more damage wins, and no cage, more open space, ring.

 

[campbecc]

Damn these guys knew BJJ..

Accordingly the antagonist of Arrichion, having already clinched him around the middle, thought to kill him; already he had wound his forearm about the other’s throat to shut off the breathing, while, pressing his legs on the groins and winding his feet one inside each knee of his adversary, he forestalled Arrichion’s resistance by choking him till the sleep of death thus induced began to creep over his senses. But in relaxing the tension of his legs he failed to forestall the scheme of Arrichion; for the latter kicked back with the sole of his right foot (as the result of which his right side was imperiled since now his knee was hanging unsupported), then with his groin he holds his adversary tight till he can no longer resist, and, throwing his weight down toward the left while he locks the latter’s foot tightly inside his own knee, by this violent outward thrust he wrenches the ankle from its socket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion

The other guy took the back, got hooks with his legs, and had a RNC in, but the other guy kicked one of the hooks out and then got a reverse figure 4 ankle lock, and Palharesed him. I'm also surprised that the historian could write it that kind of technical detail.. it means the audience was familiar and actually educated in the small details of grappling. That means it must have been much more developed skill-wise than most of us think..

Damn these guys knew high level BJJ..

Accordingly the antagonist of Arrichion, having already clinched him around the middle, thought to kill him; already he had wound his forearm about the other’s throat to shut off the breathing, while, pressing his legs on the groins and winding his feet one inside each knee of his adversary, he forestalled Arrichion’s resistance by choking him till the sleep of death thus induced began to creep over his senses. But in relaxing the tension of his legs he failed to forestall the scheme of Arrichion; for the latter kicked back with the sole of his right foot (as the result of which his right side was imperiled since now his knee was hanging unsupported), then with his groin he holds his adversary tight till he can no longer resist, and, throwing his weight down toward the left while he locks the latter’s foot tightly inside his own knee, by this violent outward thrust he wrenches the ankle from its socket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion

The other guy took the back, got hooks with his legs, and had a RNC in, but the other guy kicked one of the hooks out and then got a reverse figure 4 ankle lock, and Palharesed him. I'm also surprised that the historian could write it that kind of technical detail.. it means the audience was familiar and actually educated in the small details of grappling. That means it must have been much more developed skill-wise than most of us think..

That would have to be pankration, but yeah of course the Greeks knew how to fight. They put a massive emphasis in their culture on training how to fight for centuries, and tested those skills with real competitions. That's a big part of why they were so formidable on the battlefield and won against others with overwhelming numbers.

 

[thobra]

LnP and WaS is the greatest defense against someone that wants to fight. It also scores a whole lot of points...

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Defense isn’t scored in MMA but it is in boxing. Floyd is undefeated because he scores so many points dodging punches. If you remember Paulie tried to box defensively against Artem in BKF but lost because the rules don’t score defense only aggression.

Should defense be scored in your opinion?

Its factored into other headings i dont think it needs its own...i think effective striking and grappling cover it...to be effective at striking you have to be some what defensively sound ...same with grappling so it doesnt need its own distinction it would complicate things too much

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Defense isn’t scored in MMA but it is in boxing. Floyd is undefeated because he scores so many points dodging punches. If you remember Paulie tried to box defensively against Artem in BKF but lost because the rules don’t score defense only aggression.

Should defense be scored in your opinion?

I find this hard to believe. Is there a source in the scoring criteria for boxing?

Scoring is always awarded in every sport. In the NBA you don't get 2 points for blocking a shot. In the NHL if a team scores 1 goal but the opposing goalie makes 253 saves and the scoring teams goalie makes 5 saves the team with the better "Defence" doesn't win.

 

[imbossing]

No....Matt Riddle would be undefeated if that was the case

Prime riddle would smash kabib in a wrestling match..

Dude beat Jon Jones

 

[Franklin U.]

This is a good question- with taking certain things into consideration-.

If a grappling heavy fighter isnt being " effective " , " doing damage " or making opponent defend sub attempts then, as a judge, I wouldn't necessarily score for other guy but I wouldnt score for grappler ,either. In other words , if a guy is just able to lay n pray for 4 minutes while not being able to do anything and opponent scores with any sort of offense then I'll go 10-9 the other way... or if he is defending well to the point where ref doesnt stand em up and then scores with some late offsense- same deal

 

[alex21cms]

if it was jones las 2 figths weren t even close

 

[Fahcough]

What's the result of defending 25 takedowns? The same result as failing 25 takedowns! Therefor, that's a clear 10-10.

TMA is scored for trying as hard as you can and effort. MMA should be scored for results and achievement.

So Werdum flopping to ground to avoid striking with Alistar was a 10-10 round? Can't hit me if I refuse to engage.

 

[GolovKing]

Didn't they give Dominick Cruz the win over TJ because of his defense?

 

[johnmangala]

I find this hard to believe. Is there a source in the scoring criteria for boxing?

Scoring is always awarded in every sport. In the NBA you don't get 2 points for blocking a shot. In the NHL if a team scores 1 goal but the opposing goalie makes 253 saves and the scoring teams goalie makes 5 saves the team with the better "Defence" doesn't win.

"Rule 3.31 says Points will be awarded:

• For “attack” – direct clean hits with the knuckle part of the glove of either hand to any part of the front or side of the head or body above the belt.
  
• The “belt” is defined as an imaginary line drawn across the body from the top of the hip bones.
  
• For “defence” – guarding, slipping, ducking or getting away from an attack. Where contestants are otherwise equal the majority of points will be given to the one who does most leading off or displays the better style."

Source

 

[Fahcough]

i like the old pride rules myself. the fight should be scored as a whole.
the guy winning in the end would likely win a real fight.

This happened recently, forgot who the fighters were. Red gloves wins rounds 1 and 2 clearly, by 3 he's exhausted and blue turns it up. Beats the hell out of red in the 3rd round, only to be saved by bell and can't even get up under own power.
Red wins 2 :1 under judging but was only left conscious because the time ran out.

 

[Deleted member 546119]

Prime riddle would smash kabib in a wrestling match..

Dude beat Jon Jones

 

[superpunch]

So Werdum flopping to ground to avoid striking with Alistar was a 10-10 round? Can't hit me if I refuse to engage.

In the absence of the ref taking points away from Werdum, it's absolutely 10-10. But the ref didn't do his job. It should have been treated like a nut shot. The ref should have given a warning for stalling then taken points away every subsequent time Werdum flopped to his butt. The rounds should have then ended like 10-5 Overeem.

 

[campbecc]

In the absence of the ref taking points away from Werdum, it's absolutely 10-10. But the ref didn't do his job. It should have been treated like a nut shot. The ref should have given a warning for stalling then taken points away subsequent time Werdum flopped to his butt. The rounds should have then ended like 10-5 Overeem.

Can the ref takes points for flopping under the unified rules? I know they could under pride rules, but I'm not sure they can under unified rules, I think it is up to the judges.

 

[Harlekin]

Defense isn’t scored in MMA but it is in boxing. Floyd is undefeated because he scores so many points dodging punches. If you remember Paulie tried to box defensively against Artem in BKF but lost because the rules don’t score defense only aggression.

Should defense be scored in your opinion?

Pauli lost, because he broke his hand.
Floyd isn't scoring massive points by dodging, but landing more than his opponent due to that.

So TS doesn't get BKFC nor boxing, so why are we talking about it?

 

[superpunch]

Can the ref takes points for flopping under the unified rules? I know they could under pride rules, but I'm not sure they can under unified rules, I think it is up to the judges.

Yeah, avoiding contact is a foul. Even if it wasn't, the ref can use common sense and make it one anyway. There are 27 fouls in the unified rules. These are the 2 that could apply to situations like Werdum butt flopping against Overeem:

20. Timidity (avoiding contact, or consistently dropping the mouthpiece, or faking an injury: Timidity is defined as any fighter who purposely avoids contact with his opponent, or runs away from the action of the fight. Timidity can also be called by the referee for any attempt by a fighter to receive time by falsely claiming a foul, injury, or purposely dropping or spitting out their mouthpiece or other action designed to stall or delay the action of the fight

22. Flagrant disregard of the referee's instructions: A fighter MUST follow the instructions of the referee at all times. Any deviation or noncompliance may result in points being deducted from the fighter's scorecard, or the fighter being disqualified from the match.

So, it's written into the rules beforehand on foul #20.

Foul #22 let's the referee use common sense for anything he wants to.

That said, I prefer the Greek boxing solution. Give the referee a whip and a stick, and let him enforce the rules with those.

 

[imbossing]

Sux huh.. Khabib pshhh

 

[GaryEric]

I don't know about defense but being offensive from the bottom isn't reconized enough by judges imo. Hendricks/Condit and Shev/Nunes 2 come to mind if memory serves.... could be wrong though.