Should defense be scored?

[5 insightful]

No.

 

[superpunch]

Defense needs a lot more weight. Stuffing 13 takedowns is more impressive than them landing 1 with 3 seconds left trying to 'steal the round'.

Landing a 360 tornado kick is more impressive than landing a thai kick. But the thai kick is more effective..

You don't score for looks or effort. That's how you become TMA. You score for effectiveness.

Defense is just as effective as failed offense or just as effective as doing nothing. It should be scored as what it is: doing nothing effective, while also making your opponent do nothing effective. Meaning neither of you did anything effective. Thus: completely neutral scoring.

A round where the other guy throws 500 windmills, and you slip all 500 windmills should be.. 10-10. A round where you throw 50 submission attempts, and none of them make the other guy tap should be.. 10-10.

 

[campbecc]

I dint think so. Your not doing any damage or getting close to finishes (like attempting subs), and thats what ultimately wins fights.

if you make your opponent miss on strikes and stuff their takedowns that is winning a fight as well, wearing out your opponent is also a way to win. MMA fights are mostly short but you see the effect a lot more in 5 round fights.

 

[Fahcough]

The problem there is that a lot of judges put to much value on takedowns that don’t mean anything.

That said, judges aren’t nearly as bad about that as they were in the past

That's the problem. The commentary heavily influences this. Hopefully the judges aren't listening to broadcast and just watching the fight. Of course heavy wrestlers, DC, praise it and think 1 takedown is more effective than getting punched in face 22 times a round.

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

if you make your opponent miss on strikes and stuff their takedowns that is winning a fight as well, wearing out your opponent is also a way to win. MMA fights are mostly short but you see the effect a lot more in 5 round fights.

Thats a fair point, i guess you could score it with that in mind.

 

[Krimzon]

Floyd is undefeated because he scores so many points dodging punches.

I agree, and that's a problem with scoring floyd fights. Defense is it's own reward, no need to incentivize it.

 

[Jackonfire]

Defense is its own reward.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

No. It shouldn't if you're just reacting to what your opponent is doing you're losing.

Defense isn’t scored in MMA but it is in boxing. Floyd is undefeated because he scores so many points dodging punches. If you remember Paulie tried to box defensively against Artem in BKF but lost because the rules don’t score defense only aggression.

Should defense be scored in your opinion?

Mayweather is undefeated because he hit his opponents way more than they hit him.

Not because of defense. Now if you had said general gamesmanship you might have been on to something but that's already scored in mma.

 

[DidYouJustGetHere]

It would increase the proportion of boring fights. Fighters would then have an incentive to not be as aggressive.

 

[Fahcough]

Landing a 360 tornado kick is more impressive than landing a thai kick. But the thai kick is more effective..

You don't score for looks or effort. That's how you become TMA. You score for effectiveness.

Defense is just as effective as failed offense or just as effective as doing nothing. It should be scored as what it is: doing nothing effective, while also making your opponent do nothing effective. Meaning neither of you did anything effective. Thus: completely neutral scoring.

A round where the other guy throws 500 windmills, and you slip all 500 windmills should be.. 10-10. A round where you throw 50 submission attempts, and none of them make the other guy tap should be.. 10-10.

There's always but what if scenarios. Tyron stuffed 25 Maia takedowns. 0-25 is not a 10-10 performance.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

To me if there's a round where both guys are stalled up against the cage and one tries to take the other down but doesn't manage it and no strikes are landed then that should be a 10-10 round.

Defence needs to be used to setup offence, imo.

The only issue I have with 10 10s, and it's a philosophical one I'll admit, is that they're judges. They're literally being paid to make a judgment call. As such, I feel like they should rarely ever score 10-10s, especially in 3 and 5 rounders. It's probably not the popular opinion, I know.

But if we start seeing more 10 10s, we'll get more draws. More draws aren't necessarily bad, but they're inherently inconclusive by definition.

If you're being paid to be a judge, you really ought to be capable of determining a winner of a round. In my personal opinion at least.
10 10s do exist, but they shouldn't be encouraged.
Black beast vs Ngannou, Izzy vs Yoel had some legit 10 10 rds but those are the only ones I can recall from recently.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

in a perfect world, we'd have judges who would look at takedowns in terms of whether they're offensive (trying to get the guy on the ground so you can pound or sub him) or defensive (just trying to hold the guy and lay on him.) the unified mma scoring criteria does not score for takedowns if they lead to no effective offense.

In that case can judges finally learn the difference between a guy throwing strikes to damage and finish the fight and a guy point fighting his way to not losing?

 

[campbecc]

Thats a fair point, i guess you could score it with that in mind.

supposedly there was an ancient Greek boxer who was undefeated and didn't throw a punch, the fights had no time limits so he would make his opponents miss until they collapsed from exhaustion.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

in a perfect world, we'd have judges who would look at takedowns in terms of whether they're offensive (trying to get the guy on the ground so you can pound or sub him) or defensive (just trying to hold the guy and lay on him.) the unified mma scoring criteria does not score for takedowns if they lead to no effective offense.

Spot on. And even though itd be nearly impossible to write out a clear criteria for how to score those tds, I also think most fans can intrinsically tell the difference when they're watching it if that makes sense lol

 

[The Chosen]

Different in MMA, you can’t really “block” a shot because the gloves are so small, you can just dodge, and outstriking is already factored into the judging criteria so it is already used in judging. I guess you can check kicks and arm block punches but you’re still getting hit.

 

[Dinomit]

Takedown defence should count

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

supposedly there was an ancient Greek boxer who was undefeated and didn't throw a punch, the fights had no time limits so he would make his opponents miss until they collapsed from exhaustion.

Sounds way too long but also probably amazing the first time you see it though lol

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Defense isn't scored in boxing as far as I know... Of course having defense is a part of landing more than your opponent which can lead to winning but that's it. As for the Mayweather thing boxing is a corrupt and a joke. You watch Mayweather and they talk like he's such a defensive genius, meanwhile you watch Lara vs Canelo and they claim Lara lost because he was moving backwards... So basically aggression matters in terms of scoring fights other than a Mayweather fight?

 

[Hellowhosthat]

The only issue I have with 10 10s, and it's a philosophical one I'll admit, is that they're judges. They're literally being paid to make a judgment call. As such, I feel like they should rarely ever score 10-10s, especially in 3 and 5 rounders. It's probably not the popular opinion, I know.

But if we start seeing more 10 10s, we'll get more draws. More draws aren't necessarily bad, but they're inherently inconclusive by definition.

If you're being paid to be a judge, you really ought to be capable of determining a winner of a round. In my personal opinion at least.
10 10s do exist, but they shouldn't be encouraged.
Black beast vs Ngannou, Izzy vs Yoel had some legit 10 10 rds but those are the only ones I can recall from recently.

Yeah, I'm only talking about rounds where there's literally no successful offence.

 

[campbecc]

That's the problem. The commentary heavily influences this. Hopefully the judges aren't listening to broadcast and just watching the fight. Of course heavy wrestlers, DC, praise it and think 1 takedown is more effective than getting punched in face 22 times a round.

they are not listening to the broadcast.