Should defense be scored?

[campbecc]

Defense isn't scored in boxing as far as I know... Of course having defense is a part of landing more than your opponent which can lead to winning but that's it. As for the Mayweather thing boxing is a corrupt and a joke. You watch Mayweather and they talk like he's such a defensive genius, meanwhile you watch Lara vs Canelo and they claim Lara lost because he was moving backwards... So basically aggression matters in terms of scoring fights other than a Mayweather fight?

Defense is definitely scored in boxing they say the scoring criteria before the bout on TV and defense is listed because it is part of the scoring criteria for the unified rules of boxing.

 

[MPD-Psycho]

Conventional wisdom would say no, I guess due to the philosophical differences between self defense and combat sport.

 

[superpunch]

There's always but what if scenarios. Tyron stuffed 25 Maia takedowns. 0-25 is not a 10-10 performance.

What's the result of defending 25 takedowns? The same result as failing 25 takedowns! Therefor, that's a clear 10-10.

TMA is scored for trying as hard as you can and effort. MMA should be scored for results and achievement.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

Yeah, I'm only talking about rounds where there's literally no successful offence.

They definitely do exist. I tend to appreciate defense from an aesthetic point of view more than in a scoring sense.
If anything, I'd like to see judges who routinely fuck up be required to attend the post fight pressers so they can field questions and or explain their reasoning.
It's not a fix all for a shoddy decision, but at least there'd be the opportunity for reflection and hopefully, education

 

[campbecc]

What's the result of defending 25 takedowns? The same result as failing 25 takedowns! Therefor, that's a clear 10-10.

TMA is scored for trying as hard as you can and effort. MMA should be scored for results and achievement.

that's not remotely true, attempting a takedown wears you out way more than defending one.

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

supposedly there was an ancient Greek boxer who was undefeated and didn't throw a punch, the fights had no time limits so he would make his opponents miss until they collapsed from exhaustion.

Wow thats really cool lol! Idk how true that is but still cool.

 

[Chosen]

If that’s the case Jon beat Reyes 4-1 for real since he was swinging at air a majority of the time in rounds 2,3,4 and 5.

 

[pinero]

Defense isn’t scored in MMA but it is in boxing. Floyd is undefeated because he scores so many points dodging punches. If you remember Paulie tried to box defensively against Artem in BKF but lost because the rules don’t score defense only aggression.

Should defense be scored in your opinion?

Box doesn't give you points for defense, have you ever watched a box fight?

 

[campbecc]

Wow thats really cool lol! Idk how true that is but still cool.

it's from over 2000 years ago; but it would have been very well known at the time because he was an olympic boxer, so it's probably at least mostly true.

 

[superpunch]

it's from over 2000 years ago; but it would have been very well known at the time because he was an olympic boxer, so it's probably at least mostly true.

Greek boxing did have a form of time limits. They fought in a circle in the sand. As time kept going on, the circle would keep getting smaller until eventually they were just standing in front of each other swinging haymakers until 1 guy went down.

So, your story doesn't really fit with that ruleset. Maybe the story was in pankration?

 

[campbecc]

Greek boxing did have a form of time limits. They fought in a circle in the sand. As time kept going on, the circle would keep getting smaller until eventually they were just standing in front of each other swinging haymakers until 1 guy went down.

So, your story doesn't really fit with that ruleset. Maybe the story was in pankration?

where did you hear that? and no he was boxer. He was Melankomas of Caria

 

[Pierced7681]

Off the top of my head one of the few times I’ve scored a fight for a defensive fighter was Tibau vs Khabib. Nothing against Khabib, but if you fail at all your takedowns and that’s all you do it shouldn’t count as a victory.

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

it's from over 2000 years ago; but it would have been very well known at the time because he was an olympic boxer, so it's probably at least mostly true.

Yeah, maybe.

 

[superpunch]

where did you hear that? and no he was boxer. He was Melankomas of Caria

• Fighters could opt to exchange blows undefended if the fight lasted too long https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_boxing#Rules_and_Characteristics

"... but at times, officials would cordon off an area of the skamma in order to bring the fighters closer together and diminish the amount of rest. While judges did not call fights based on a combatant’s ability to continue, the judges used sticks to poke, prod, or beat fighters who stalled, committed fouls, or just seemed tired."
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/the-bloody-deadly-heavy-fights-of-ancient-greece

If a guy tried to just play defense until the other guy was exhausted, the other guy could request to simply trade blows.

If the other guy didn't request it, the refs would shrink the ring force it anyways.

No one was evading like prime Machida; both guys were forced to engage constantly. If you could do defense while engaging, like Pernell Whitaker, great. But no one was doing by maintaining lots of distance with footwork.

 

[campbecc]

• Fighters could opt to exchange blows undefended if the fight lasted too long https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_boxing#Rules_and_Characteristics

"... but at times, officials would cordon off an area of the skamma in order to bring the fighters closer together and diminish the amount of rest. While judges did not call fights based on a combatant’s ability to continue, the judges used sticks to poke, prod, or beat fighters who stalled, committed fouls, or just seemed tired."
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/the-bloody-deadly-heavy-fights-of-ancient-greece

If a guy tried to just play defense until the other guy was exhausted, the other guy could request to simply trade blows.

If the other guy didn't request it, the refs would shrink the ring force it anyways.

No one was evading like prime Machida; both guys were forced to engage constantly. If you could do defense while engaging, like Pernell Whitaker, great. But no one was doing by maintaining lots of distance with footwork.

wikipedia is not exactly a reliable source. He existed and is in the historical record. No one ever said he ran away, he made his opponents miss.

 

[superpunch]

wikipedia is not exactly a reliable source. He existed and is in the historical record. No one ever said he ran away, he made his opponents miss.

Damn these guys knew high level BJJ..

Accordingly the antagonist of Arrichion, having already clinched him around the middle, thought to kill him; already he had wound his forearm about the other’s throat to shut off the breathing, while, pressing his legs on the groins and winding his feet one inside each knee of his adversary, he forestalled Arrichion’s resistance by choking him till the sleep of death thus induced began to creep over his senses. But in relaxing the tension of his legs he failed to forestall the scheme of Arrichion; for the latter kicked back with the sole of his right foot (as the result of which his right side was imperiled since now his knee was hanging unsupported), then with his groin he holds his adversary tight till he can no longer resist, and, throwing his weight down toward the left while he locks the latter’s foot tightly inside his own knee, by this violent outward thrust he wrenches the ankle from its socket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion

The other guy took the back, got hooks with his legs, and had a RNC in, but the other guy kicked one of the hooks out and then got a reverse figure 4 ankle lock, and Palharesed him. I'm also surprised that the historian could write it that kind of technical detail.. it means the audience was familiar and actually educated in the small details of grappling. That means it must have been much more developed skill-wise than most of us think..

 

[Canarinha]

Defence should only mean something if you are countering with hits while you are blocking inbetween.

Just blocking/slipping and having a tdd should NOT grant points.

...And takedowns should not be a factor for point scoring aswell unless you are busy on the ground delivering hits.

Same as Clinching up against the fence, just stalling without strikes and inactivity should NOT be a factor for points.

Getting busy and mixing every action with strikes should be the ONLY thing for point scoring.

 

[Slapchoppin]

boxing has hitting and not getting hit so its easier to judge defense

how do you judge what neutralizing your opponent in your guard is worth?

 

[johnmangala]

Box doesn't give you points for defense, have you ever watched a box fight?

Defense is definitely scored in boxing they say the scoring criteria before the bout on TV and defense is listed because it is part of the scoring criteria for the unified rules of boxing.

Willie Pep famously won a round without even throwing a punch, won just through defense. I'm sure that's not the only example.

 

[johnmangala]

No....Matt Riddle would be undefeated if that was the case

Bro that's a terrible example. Matt Riddle missed almost every strike while the other fighter landed consistent jabs. The other fighter would've won whether defense is scored or not.