Shoguns lost it.

[Sherm]

He needs TRT and a physical trainer. He looks like a fat man in a diaper out there. Imagine if he actually worked out.

 

[JKS]

i disagree

the case with shogun is simple imo.

he is still improving slightley or staying the same but the division is improving multiple times as fast and this is causing him to lose ground

I dont see LHW improving........guys like Davis and Bader are still primarly wrestlers with so so striking. In the case of Davis, he hasnt really shown us any improvement. Machida is Machida. Forrest is not really going anywhere in terms of growth. Glover is new to the UFC, but a experienced guy that is set in his ways.

You have Rashad who is a guy that has grown as a fighter and trains with a top team. You have Gus who is getting better and better. But Rampage and Hendo are going to be out soon, same with Jones.

If anything, with the changes over the next year, he`s gaining ground by just being Shogun.

 

[trane]

i disagree

the case with shogun is simple imo.

he is still improving slightley or staying the same but the division is improving multiple times as fast and this is causing him to lose ground

Shogun has gotten worse, injuries have taken their toll. Has nothing to with other people.

The decline is clear, how people try to act like nothing is wrong, is just mind blowing to me.

 

[ABSthetics]

He needs TRT and a physical trainer. He looks like a fat man in a diaper out there. Imagine if he actually worked out.

Even when Shogun looked his best physique wise, he still never looked 'HOLY SHIT THIS GUY IS YOKED' impressive.

 

[tritestill]

Gus just has a better chin than we all thought. Shogun landed a couple clean shots that would have ko'd a lot of LHW's. The Vera fight just showed Vera when he is motivated and what he could have been.

 

[JKS]

Besides his drawn-out battles with Rogerio, Hendo, the 1st Forrest fight, Overeem 2x (especially the 1st, where he almost got choked), the 2 Coleman fights (one where he got his arm mangled, and the other where he arguably lost the first 2 rounds), his drawn-out devasation by Jones, and his recent war vs Vera. You need more, bud?

I never understood why nuthuggers never think rationally about their favorite fighter. I'm an incurable, huge Herring fan, but I'm not going to lie and pretend he was truly elite. Why are you holding Shogun to unreasonable standards? The facts are that he's been fighting for a decade, he's had multiple injuries and surgically repaired major joints, has fought injured a few times, came up in the roughest camp of its era, and has been in some serious heavy brawls.

The only thing undeniable is that he's still dangerous to anyone at any point in the fight, but he can't live off his one-hit power forever, especially as he will slow more and continue to be damaged as he ages.

So, did I answer your question?

No....you just exaggerated a bunch of things to try and prove your point BUD! Overeem wars? Are you joking....those were probly the fights that had the least toll in him in years. Fights like Forrest and Rogerio are fast pace fights that inovled a lot of grappling and boxing, but were not anything that take a lot out of a fighter. Fights like that happen all the time, its just part of the game. Why even mention Coleman?? Lost the first 2 rounds?? he easily won both those rounds.

He's been in 2 very tough fights that he took damage and were physically tough on him and thats Hendo and Jones. The rest were domination by him, or just a high paced fights.

What is it with you guys making everything into a war??? This is what fighters do, they fight, they get hit. Not every fight is war. Certainly not Vera.

 

[mawashi geri**]

Good list. Until I see more from Tex and Chael's one time only LHW resurgence, I'm going to have to disagree with those. Bader also. I see him getting subbed rather easily.

Bader's MMA wrestling is pretty terrible. He's up there in shit MMA wrestling along with Munoz.

chael is one of shoguns worst nightmares imo. he will take shogun down at will every single time he tries and he has an iron chin and will continually go for the td

shogun ducking tex also goes to show me he is not confident in his chances against him.

bader also is a bad match up for shogun. bader unlike davis has big power so you cant just not take his striking into consideration plus he is just so much physically bigger and stronger then shogun he would manhandle him.

bader beat and controlled rampage. and rampage is bigger and has way way way better defensive wrestling then shogun

 

[JKS]

Ahahaha all it takes is one punch to put out Rampage huh? I'm not even going to humor that nonsense with a valid response.

So I guess it just not possible to land a big shot, rock a guy and finish him by strikes??

 

[JKS]

Yes, if he moved to AKA for example and worked his wrestling/cardio with the likes of Cain, it would be very interesting to see. But veteran warriors like him are usually too comfortable and set in their ways to make a drastic change like that. Much like Penn.

Thats the problem. I would love to see him move, but I think he may be to set in his way now. And he wont get better with Dida, they train hard, but dont really work on evolving.

 

[Gotosleepho]

I don't see him holding the title with Jones being champion but he's still a top tier LHW.

 

[mawashi geri**]

The op pretty much covers my thoughts on this, im somewhat conflicted about Rua though. He's just very inconsistent, you never quite know which version will show up.

cmon i still cant beleive people think a different version of shogun appears in each fight.

its the same guy. his opponents make him look different.

shoguns cardio can be good for 10 rounds but once he gets taken down it goes to shit. its been like this since he joined the ufc

 

[Mooner]

3 reconstructive knee surgeries will do that. Put this into perspective.

1) Each ACL surgery means 1 year off and he has had 3, therefore, that's 3 years gone, period.

2) Coincidentally, this occurred during his prime years (25~29 years old).

3) The most unfortunate part is this happened as soon as he came into the UFC.

Put the three together and you'll understand why Shogun's performances have been disappointing in the UFC.

 

[JKS]

I don't see him holding the title with Jones being champion but he's still a top tier LHW.

I dont see it either, but Jones is moving to HW after 2 more fights at LHW

 

[trane]

chael is one of shoguns worst nightmares imo. he will take shogun down at will every single time he tries and he has an iron chin and will continually go for the td

shogun ducking tex also goes to show me he is not confident in his chances against him.

bader also is a bad match up for shogun. bader unlike davis has big power so you cant just not take his striking into consideration plus he is just so much physically bigger and stronger then shogun he would manhandle him.

bader beat and controlled rampage. and rampage is bigger and has way way way better defensive wrestling then shogun

Rampage was injured(fought on a bum knee) and out of shape, so you really have to put that fight into perspective.

The fight is not relevant in how he would perform against Shogun, it showed us nothing.

 

[trane]

cmon i still cant beleive people think a different version of shogun appears in each fight.

its the same guy. his opponents make him look different.

shoguns cardio can be good for 10 rounds but once he gets taken down it goes to shit. its been like this since he joined the ufc

That's the thing, it isn't the same guy, not anymore.

Please stop repeating something that clearly isn't true.

 

[CrashStitches]

No....you just exaggerated a bunch of things to try and prove your point BUD! Overeem wars? Are you joking....those were probly the fights that had the least toll in him in years. Fights like Forrest and Rogerio are fast pace fights that inovled a lot of grappling and boxing, but were not anything that take a lot out of a fighter. Fights like that happen all the time, its just part of the game. Why even mention Coleman?? Lost the first 2 rounds?? he easily won both those rounds.

He's been in 2 very tough fights that he took damage and were physically tough on him and thats Hendo and Jones. The rest were domination by him, or just a high paced fights.

What is it with you guys making everything into a war??? This is what fighters do, they fight, they get hit. Not every fight is war. Certainly not Vera.

Piss, moan, obfuscate, and deny all you want. Shogun's days at the top are done, mainly because of all the damage to his body. You can choose to accept it and enjoy what career he has left as a bonus, or you can expect him to improve at 31+ with a decade of wear, injuries, and surgeries behind him, and end up constantly butt-hurt and making unreasonable excuses because you hold shot fighters to their prime standards.

Your choice. I'm cool with mine.

WAR Shogun! Thanks for all the wars!

 

[ABSthetics]

chael is one of shoguns worst nightmares imo. he will take shogun down at will every single time he tries and he has an iron chin and will continually go for the td

shogun ducking tex also goes to show me he is not confident in his chances against him.

bader also is a bad match up for shogun. bader unlike davis has big power so you cant just not take his striking into consideration plus he is just so much physically bigger and stronger then shogun he would manhandle him.

bader beat and controlled rampage. and rampage is bigger and has way way way better defensive wrestling then shogun

Bader is a big, strong dude. The Tito fight will forever haunt him and I see Shogun using his BJJ to pull off a sub. This is a fight where Shogun, if he stays off his back long enough could land a big shot and KO him.

I'm not dissing Bader but I would love to see him fight a healthy Rampage. Jon Jones has 20 times the wrestling of Bader and is arguably much stronger. Rampage stuffed so many of Bones' TDs without breaking a sweat. It was clear Page was injured. Bader wishes on a star he could be as competent in MMA wrestling as Jones.

 

[JKS]

3 reconstructive knee surgeries will do that. Put this into perspective.

1) Each ACL surgery means 1 year off and he has had 3, therefore, that's 3 years gone, period.

2) Coincidentally, this occurred during his prime years (25~29 years old).

3) The most unfortunate part is this happened as soon as he came into the UFC.

Put the three together and you'll understand why Shogun's performances have been disappointing in the UFC.

I think there is a bit more to it then that. Truthfully speaking as a huge SHogun fan. People hold Shogun is very high regards as one of the greats. Cause of the many top guys he's beaten and the titles he's won.

Frankly, its those expectations he's never lived up to. I just dont think he's as good as he's made out to be. He's reagarded with the best of the best, but I feel he's a notch below.

 

[RiverCity]

I'm fine with just seeing Shogun in fun fights. Rampage rematch, Lil nog Rematch etc.

Agreed.

 

[JKS]

Piss, moan, obfuscate, and deny all you want. Shogun's days at the top are done, mainly because of all the damage to his body. You can choose to accept it and enjoy what career he has left as a bonus, or you can expect him to improve at 31+ with a decade of wear, injuries, and surgeries behind him, and end up constantly butt-hurt and making unreasonable excuses because you hold shot fighters to their prime standards.

Your choice. I'm cool with mine.

WAR Shogun! Thanks for all the wars!

What the hell are you talking about?? Have you even read what I said. Who is talking about excuses of improvment here??

Im talking about how many so called wars and tough fights he's had. I've seen every single one of his fights going back before Pride. Dont try and challenge me on that.

Most LHWs have fought similar fights, Rampage, Hendo, Forrest, Rogerio all have fought many tough fights, fights where you would qualify as wars. Guys like Machida have lost to every top fighter he has fought (almost) but yet no one critices him.