Shoguns lost it.

Well 2-4 b/c Shogun won the first fight, but that aside, styles make fights and Machida is a good fight for a healthy Shogun.

Well 4-2 cause if we're overriding decisions then Machida beat Rampage and Shogun. There is no such thing as a healthy Shogun anymore. He's only shown up a few times and those days are gone. Too many surgeries and he can't use his kicks anymore which is his best weapon.
 
I'm fine with just seeing Shogun in fun fights. Rampage rematch, Lil nog Rematch etc.

He'll never contend again but there still good fights for him. Best he stays away from the up and comers. Other good math ups:

Forrest
Thiago
Rashad
Anderson Silva (205)

Any of these could headline and make him some serious cash. Lil' Nog rematch should be fucking mandatory.
 
He'll never contend again but there still good fights for him. Best he stays away from the up and comers. Other good math ups:

Forrest
Thiago
Rashad
Anderson Silva (205)

Any of these could headline and make him some serious cash. Lil' Nog rematch should be fucking mandatory.

I dont think the Anderson fight would be "fun" for shogun at all. Quite the opposite.
 
I actually was impressed by Shogun because I thought the fight wouldn't be competitive. Shogun almost lost to Vera who I think is very bad. I thought Gus would destroy him because I think he's like 3x better than Vera.

But Shogun did okay. He landed some blows. It wasn't a completely domination.

Vera is not "very bad" on the feet. He is actually very good there, too bad a gust of wind seems to take him down to the mat.

People have this perception of Vera that he is absolute garbage when he has always had some of the better technical MT at LHW. He trained with Rob Kaman... it is very unlikely you train under a kickboxing legend like Kaman and come out with bad striking.

He gets taken down way too easily and also seems to have some issues with focus. Also he was hyped to the high heavens when he was an up and comer. If you look at his fights between 08-09 he could have had very different outcomes/trajectory. He had very close fights with Jardine and Couture.

He got smashed against Jones, but then again who hasn't? He also got beat by a roided up Thiago Silva (touted as a MT striker) who again, he completely dominated standing which is why Thiago resorted to wrestling in the first place.

Considering the comp he's faced and lost to (Sylvia, Werdum, Jardine, Couture, Jones, T. Silva, Shogun) he's a pretty alright guy.
 
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I think you'll find that if you read the op its really not stupid, its a fair observation.

Surgeries, hard time with Vera, gone the way of Fedor& best days behind him. Ok.

1st man to KO Vera standing.
Shogun looked great against Gustafsson until the 3rd round.
He's still a top 10 HW & has the chin and heart to keep him in every fight until the end. This is MMA, anything can happen.

Whether its the end or a new beginning, ill always be a fan.
 
Surgeries, hard time with Vera, gone the way of Fedor& best days behind him. Ok.

1st man to KO Vera standing.
Shogun looked great against Gustafsson until the 3rd round.
He's still a top 10 HW & has the chin and heart to keep him in every fight until the end. This is MMA, anything can happen.

Whether its the end or a new beginning, ill always be a fan.

I dont think he looked "great" at all, he looked competitive but a step behind throughout. And I too am a long time fan, thats why it saddens me to see what injuries/age/complacency have done to him.
 
Give him another fight like Vera, I just want to see him beat the shit out of people and get finishes in fun/exciting fights.

By doing that he can work his way up to another title contender/title shot.
 
Shogun's body has taken a beating and he is very old for a fighter..Shogun will ALWAYS be one of my favorite fighters, because he always in exciting fights! He goes for the finish always, kill or be killed.. WAR SHOGUN. I agree..give him fun fights and let him ride out the rest of his years as the LEGEND he is.

Lol what? How is 31 years old at all? He should be in his prime if anything.
 
Pretty good breakdown of Shogun. But the same things can be said about the majority of that division. In their 30's, striking isn't great, grappling isn't great, cardio is questionable.... I thought he looked good against Gus, he just lost the 3rd round. He's still top ten though, and can probably hang with any of em not named Jon Jones.
 
I think age/wear and tear is catching up to him. People forget how difficult it is to stay in that good of a shape for that long. Truth of the matter is, he'll never be the same fighter he was in Pride.
 
So after the Gus fight I thought about Shogun and his place in the division.
He is in his 30's now and is unlikely to improve his game significantly from this point on, he's had multiple surgeries on his knees and it seems many of his weapons have been taken from him by the aforementioned injuries and age.
He has taken serious damage throughout his career and lately in particular, his style had reverted from a multifaceted striker to a very one dimensional slugger. He is over reliant on his big overhand, lacks the wrestling to consistently defend the takedown or fully implement a top game. His grappling is still dangerous but he lacks finishing ability with his subs and often leaves himself open on the mat, his cardio remains a major weakness and he is a step behind most modern fighters with his strength and conditioning programme it seems.
He could stick around as an upper level gatekeeper for a while IMO but I dont think we'll see him contend again, he's gone the way of Fedor and let the game pass him by, he's accomplished alot and given us great moments but he wont remain competitive unless he makes some serious changes.
Thoughts?



Yeah well after the wars he's given us and damage he's taken and the fact he probably has knees of a 50 year old doesnt help.
 
A lot of guys seem to forget all of their tools when they get older, do they think that throwing their best one over and over is going to work every time?

It's not just Shogun either. Fedor, Cro Cop, Hendo, and I'm sure quite a few others I'm forgetting have all abandoned most of their tools and just rely/relied on one or two attacks as they get towards the end of their careers
 
because silva beat irvin, bonnar, and a forrest that already lost it? :rolleyes:

shogun would finish silva, probably in the first.


The scary part is that AS toyed with the people in his fights at 205. He'd come in and Shogun wouldnt have a chance to tap to strikes before the ref stepped in. Maybe old PRIDE Shogun would have a chance but banged up Shogun with horrible knees and movement against one of the best stirkers in MMA wouldnt even be fair to watch. We'd have to put the PRIDE fans like me on suicide watch.
 
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