Shoguns lost it.

[faustian]

Machida would probably beat him at this point. I dont know why he's the person of all the contenders you would pick shogun fun.

I think Shogun slaughters Bader, for instance.

I picked Machida because he's overrated and 2-4 in his last 6 fights.

 

[IIIIIIII]

So after the Gus fight I thought about Shogun and his place in the division.
He is in his 30's now and is unlikely to improve his game significantly from this point on, he's had multiple surgeries on his knees and it seems many of his weapons have been taken from him by the aforementioned injuries and age.
He has taken serious damage throughout his career and lately in particular, his style had reverted from a multifaceted striker to a very one dimensional slugger. He is over reliant on his big overhand, lacks the wrestling to consistently defend the takedown or fully implement a top game. His grappling is still dangerous but he lacks finishing ability with his subs and often leaves himself open on the mat, his cardio remains a major weakness and he is a step behind most modern fighters with his strength and conditioning programme it seems.
He could stick around as an upper level gatekeeper for a while IMO but I dont think we'll see him contend again, he's gone the way of Fedor and let the game pass him by, he's accomplished alot and given us great moments but he wont remain competitive unless he makes some serious changes.
Thoughts?

his knees are fucked.

he's never going to be the same.

 

[OldManGrip]

He didn't do too badly - Gus is an awkward opponent.

Shogun looked great against Macheda (twice) and that wasn't too long ago.

yes it was, and thats when he got his last surgery, which he never seemed to have come back from. Before that surgery he had crisp thai boxing, now he hardly throws kicks, I like to watch the old shogun much more than the current form. However he did look better in the Gus fight than the Vera

 

[Da Speeit]

I picked Machida because he's overrated and 2-4 in his last 6 fights.

3-3, which is the same as Shogun.
Pretty stupid rationale.

 

[Level One]

Machida would probably beat him at this point. I dont know why he's the person of all the contenders you would pick shogun fun.

I think Shogun slaughters Bader, for instance.

Probably because they think their fights from years ago still matter even though the last two years Machida has had two good performances where has Shogun's only looked good against Forrest Griffin.

 

[rush61]

In all honesty I thought he looked pretty good compared to his last few fights prior.

 

[OldManGrip]

I picked Machida because he's overrated and 2-4 in his last 6 fights.

what? his knees are so crewed now, he can't throw kicks like he did in their first match. Shogun would lost at this point. Hes been injured too much he can't help it. I would pick shogun against everyone in lhw when he was on point but hes just not anymore

 

[blackmage]

The guy can't move the way he used too. Them kicks he used to do he can't risk it anymore. That's what's killed him. Hes way to one dimensional now. He don't got the power he used to either. He can't run on them knee's so his cardio is bad. sucks. if he had his knees never worked on he would be such a more threat in every area he would of actually been able to work on what his not good at. doing it now risks them knee's him wrestling hard on them knee's for 3-4 months would risk tearing his acl and then he would really be done.

 

[faustian]

3-3, which is the same as Shogun.
Pretty stupid rationale.

Well 2-4 b/c Shogun won the first fight, but that aside, styles make fights and Machida is a good fight for a healthy Shogun.

 

[IIIIIIII]

I don't think he has much left either. I think just notch a couple more wins and then ride off into the sunset.

from the things shogun has been saying, he isn't ready to leave the sport that quickly.

i fear that he may end up like his great friend wanderlei, with a few knockout losses before all things are said and done.

i know that the guy has a granite chin...but everyone's chin eventually breaks. even mark hunt went down once.

 

[venivedivici]

Shogun's body has taken a beating and he is very old for a fighter..Shogun will ALWAYS be one of my favorite fighters, because he always in exciting fights! He goes for the finish always, kill or be killed.. WAR SHOGUN. I agree..give him fun fights and let him ride out the rest of his years as the LEGEND he is.

 

[TomTomNT]

yeah after reading TS post i was basically nodding my head, all i see him doing is going for overhand heavy punches, i don't see any technique to be honest, i don't even seen any muay Thai anymore, hes just a regular boxer who throws 1 or 2 leg kicks when he feels like it.

His days as a contender are over, he will win few matches here and there, but his career is done, has been for a little while now and this hurts me to say this.

 

[OldManGrip]

3-3, which is the same as Shogun.
Pretty stupid rationale.

yeah that guy sounds like an idiot, How is Machida overrated?, the only people he really lost to (in terms of taking damage) are jones and prime shogun.

 

[Magooglie]

He needs more 5 round fights. Potentially even a 6th and 7th round. Rounds 4 and 5 are his sweet spot now. Gus is lucky it was only a 3 rounder.

 

[Raylan]

I wonder what it would take to put Shogun out cold? They should be doing studies on that chin in some government laboratory.

 

[Mr. Fresca]

He has definitely lost a step. The LHW division went from being the most stacked in the sport to one of the most stagnant. With the exception of Jon Jones, most of top guys have been around forever. Henderson, Shogun, Rampage, Rashad, Forrest, lil Nog, Machida, even Tito until recently. A lot of the older fighters are finally being phased out. Shogun included.

 

[OldManGrip]

Well 2-4 b/c Shogun won the first fight, but that aside, styles make fights and Machida is a good fight for a healthy Shogun.

you can't change judges scores to fit your personal opinion, in my opinion he beat rampage so its 3-3, your trying too hard to discredit lyoto, whatever your motive is.....

 

[faustian]

what? his knees are so crewed now, he can't throw kicks like he did in their first match. Shogun would lost at this point. Hes been injured too much he can't help it. I would pick shogun against everyone in lhw when he was on point but hes just not anymore

I don't even think he needs to throw kicks tbh. Once he connects once with Machida's glass jaw, it's over. The Shogun that threw with Gus would've knocked out Machida like four different times in that fight. Shogun still has the jaw and the power, and that's enough to chase Machida down, walk through his karate jabs, and ktfo Lyoto.

 

[Honestnathaniel]

He needs more 5 round fights. Potentially even a 6th and 7th round. Rounds 4 and 5 are his sweet spot now. Gus is lucky it was only a 3 rounder.

You're joking right? Gus looked much fresher after the 3rd.

 

[faustian]

you can't change judges scores to fit your personal opinion, in my opinion he beat rampage so its 3-3, your trying too hard to discredit lyoto, whatever your motive is.....

I agree with you about Lyoto/Rampage, but it was still relatively close while I don't think I've ever seen a decision quite like Shogun/Machida I.