SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 120: Eyes Wide Shut

[Tufts]

Eyes Wide Shut sounds like someone who has his/her eyes closed but still observes something vividly and that sounds like dreaming to me.

Or someone who is so blind to reality that his eyes are wide open in what he is choosing not to se...

 

[Tufts]

gdamn son, you thought I was going to get all that out of a meme? <45>

I understand that you want to focus on a main theme of the film which is fidelity but this film is so much more.

What happened to Nick Nightingale? Was he killed?
What happened to Mandy? Accident or made to look like an accident?
How did Alice dream what happened to Bill?

Why did Kubrick film the final scene placing Helena following two suspect men we saw earlier in the movie? He specifically placed them in the center of the frame. Its one of the most important scenes in the film and a detail hard to pick up on.

Helen looks back at her mother as she follows them away.

I would also like to know what

Nothing kills ones sense of masculinity like getting shoved by a frat boy who calls you a f*g.

To me it also felt like the writers created enough situations to give Cruise permission to go on his oddysey.

 

[Tufts]

Kubrick layered his films deeply with symbols and Easter eggs. Trying to figure out what he's saying is the entire point of a Kubrick film. The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, and Eyes Wide Shut are all difficult to piece together. I don't feel like this film is an open and shut case of a couples fidelity issues. It seems like a lot of hoops to jump through for the sake of marriage counseling. These elite circles may do this as a form of religion rather than out of boredom.

What was Kubrick trying to say about Bob Hope? We know Seth McFarland was basically exposing Harvey Weinstein before anyone in the public ever knew about it.

When the frat boys shove Bill and call him a f*g, what school are they from?

Looks like Yale University.

What high profile secret society is from Yale?

 

[Tufts]

This movie has induced some slight paranoia in me. I feel like Tom Cruise walkin around in this bih.

I’ve still been thinking about it since I watched it. They made it appear to be a facade, but people still ended up dead. With closed cases and not many questions asked.

I really do believe that Kubrick was exposing elite cults here and paid the price.

View attachment 425869

Also, it was obvious that the rich dude was trying to get Cruise to just let it all go. Nightingale was ok. Mandy was a hooker (hence immediately not a person he should really give a shit about) who was bound to OD (even though her OD was likely triggered by getting used by assholes like the rich dude and his cronies).... yet by the end of the film the audience doesn't really seem to care if these characters are ok or not..... except for @Muster! Good job keeping us focused!

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

This is why most dudes get lucky on their third date. Amirite fellas?

I would not act on the temptation though, coz that is not how us chics roll!

I'm sure you're a respectable young woman, but I wouldn't generalize an entire gender.
There are plenty of Men and Women who act on temptation.
Men are more likely to, but still.

 

[smooth assassin]

Well I read everyone’s theories, messages, meanings, symbolism’s and explanations, just rewatched the movie and ready to add to the discussion...

It was not bad

 

[MusterX]

Could be targeted specifically at Hollywood, especially considering everything that's been coming out lately. "Everyone knew" but no one said anything.

Most certainly Nicole Kidman knew about Harvey, all the other high profile actors knew about him. Here is the pic you posted again because I think its important.

Nicold Kidman's father, Antony Kidman was accused of being in a pedo ring but he died in a Singapore hotel before anything happened with that. I'm not saying its true, I have no way of knowing that but anything to do with sexual abuse and Hollywood is believable.

I really do believe that Kubrick was exposing elite cults here and paid the price.

The house in the movie where the black mass took place looks like its a reference to the Rothschild family. The guys who shoved Bill look like they are wearing Yale University shirts which is the society that produced such stand outs as both Bush presidents. There are other weird things though. The movie has the Rainbow Costumes owner selling his daughter, its pedophilia. The end of the film has Helena following two men who may be members of the cult. What was in the 20+ minutes that were cut out of the film after Kubrick died? Nobody knows.

One thing that bothered me was what did the costume shop's daughter whisper into Tom Cruises ear? I've time stamped it for you here.



I looked around and found this information on a guys blog.

We also see Milich’s daughter do this controversial whisper into Bill’s ear. It is said that the subtitles show the dialogue:


‘You Should Have a Cloak Lined with Ermine’

That dialogue is telling him to get a cloak that’s lined with a certain pattern, which is found to be in possession of royal monarchy. This reinforces the theory that there is a privileged elite and bloodline tied to these characters.

So there are all these possible references being thrown around implicating Hollywood, the super wealthy, Royal Families, the Rothschild's, secret societies, possibly Skull and Bones which is a nod toward the political arena. Basically all the elite groups you might think of. Kubrick then dies 5 days after showing Warner Brothers the final cut of the movie. That is spectacular timing on his part. When Bill arrives at the party we get this shot.

Remember at the party all the stars of Ishtar?

Stars of Ishtar are also known as Stars of Venus. Read this.

The planet Venus was known to the ancients as the “Light Bearer” because Venus appears in the sky each morning before the sun rises. In ancient Greco-Roman mythology Venus was the goddess of love, sexuality, and procreation. The goddess Venus, the “Light Bearer” was called Luc-ferre, or Lucifer in Latin.

Kubrick is telling us that this particular cult worships Ishtar/Venus, known as the light bearer, A.K.A. Satan. The two statues in the picture above are holding up the lights, that coupled with the party with the 8 pointed stars, it seems incontrovertible that this is about elite people and a specific type of worship.

 

[MusterX]

I also think you can feel watched....so she felt watched by him, or she wanted him to watch. Its her dream so its based on her emotions and needs (or the needs and emotions of the dudes who made the movie)

She dreamed what Bill experienced at the orgy...on the same night......

That is very difficult to grapple with. She was horrified because she had sex with uncountable men and Bill was watching, just like he watched at the black mass/orgy. Kubrick knew that would be a sneaky thing to place in the movie because its inexplicable. Bill and Alice seem almost psychically connected.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

The house in the movie where the black mass took place looks like its a reference to the Rothschild family. The guys who shoved Bill look like they are wearing Yale University shirts which is the society that produced such stand outs as both Bush presidents. There are other weird things though. The movie has the Rainbow Costumes owner selling his daughter, its pedophilia. The end of the film has Helena following two men who may be members of the cult. What was in the 20+ minutes that were cut out of the film after Kubrick died? Nobody knows.

That part threw me off and was more significant than I thought in retrospect. The owner of the shop was so horrified to find his underage daughter with two grown men. He trapped them, was going to call the Police, and discipline his daughter. Now either those two Asian men are masters of the deal, or the underlying message of that storyline is that Money rules over all, even the most immoral crimes like Pedophilia. Or in his case, pimping out his own daughter to pedophiles. It's almost like it's a normal thing. I think that's what he was trying to portray here. In Hollywood you see it become normal. People sell their kids into mind control and sex slavery (imo).

Very twisted. I don't know if it's true, but there are stories of Kubrick arguing with an executive directly after the original screening, saying they can't cut anything because it's in his contract. When he died, full rights went to to the Production company and they cut 21 minutes.

 

[MusterX]

Another weird connection to the Royal family is that when Bill meets the two models, one introduces the other as Nuala Windsor, seen here on the left.

Windsor is a very specific name to choose for a character that has 2 lines of dialogue. Interestingly, when you go to IMDb and look at the cast, it simply lists her as Nuala but if you go back and watch that scene, which I can't find a good cut of, she does say Nuala Windsor.

Now let this blow your mind.

This is the sculpture known as Dangerous Liaisons in Buckinghamshire, England.

And here is the comparison to the Eyes Wide Shut mask.

Here is where it gets interesting. The sculpture Dangerous Liaisons was created by an artist named Philip Jackson. Philip Jackson is the Royal Sculptor for Queen Elizabeth.

The sculpture Dangerous Liaisons is in Buckinghamshire, England. You may remember in an earlier post I mentioned Mentmore Towers and the Rothschilds party.

Mentmore Towers is located in Buckinghamshire, England. Only it doesn't stop there. Within Buckinghamshire, is a parish known as West Wycome. It was the home of the Hellfire Club, A.K.A. The Brotherhood of St. Francis of Wycome. What did they worship? None other than Venus.

According to Horace Walpole, the members' "practice was rigorously pagan: Bacchus and Venus were the deities to whom they almost publicly sacrificed; and the nymphs and the hogsheads that were laid in against the festivals of this new church, sufficiently informed the neighborhood of the complexion of those hermits." Dashwood's garden at West Wycombe contained numerous statues and shrines to different gods; Daphne and Flora, Priapus and the previously mentioned Venus and Dionysus.[34]

And guess what this rabbit hole doesn't stop there. The leader of the club wore red.

Meetings occurred twice a month, with an AGM lasting a week or more in June or September.[35] The members addressed each other as "Brothers" and the leader, which changed regularly, as "Abbot". During meetings members supposedly wore ritual clothing: white trousers, jacket and cap, while the "Abbot" wore a red ensemble of the same style.[36] Legends of Black Masses and Satan or demon worship have subsequently become attached to the club, beginning in the late Nineteenth Century. Rumours saw female "guests" (a euphemism for prostitutes) referred to as "Nuns". Dashwood's Club meetings often included mock rituals, items of a pornographic nature, much drinking, wenching and banqueting.[37]

The Hellfire Club acquired an old church and performed its pagan rituals in the basement.

Now listen again to what Victor Ziegler tells Bill about the attendees of the black mass. Timestamped starting at 1:00.

 

[MusterX]

That part threw me off and was more significant than I thought in retrospect. The owner of the shop was so horrified to find his underage daughter with two grown men. He trapped them, was going to call the Police, and discipline his daughter. Now either those two Asian men are masters of the deal, or the underlying message of that storyline is that Money rules over all, even the most immoral crimes like Pedophilia. Or in his case, pimping out his own daughter to pedophiles. It's almost like it's a normal thing. I think that's what he was trying to portray here. In Hollywood you see it become normal. People sell their kids into mind control and sex slavery (imo).

Very twisted. I don't know if it's true, but there are stories of Kubrick arguing with an executive directly after the original screening, saying they can't cut anything because it's in his contract. When he died, full rights went to to the Production company and they cut 21 minutes.

Maybe it was part of the act. Maybe the costume store owner Milich was just playing along with pretending to catch them and threaten them. I don't think he was an upstanding father who then thought, yea, I can turn a buck here. It seems more likely he was pimping his daughter and they were playing a game. The more interesting thing to me is that the name of the shop was Rainbow. The Wizard of Oz is associated in conspiracy circles as an indication of pedophilia, mind control, sex slaves, sexual abuse, etc. Believe me, Kubrick didn't just randomly select Rainbow for the father selling his daughter or for the models asking Bill if he wanted to go where the rainbow ends.

Believe me, when the Podesta brothers and the pizzagate shit was happening there where things that made CT'ers crazy. Like why are all these fools wearing their ruby red slippers?

Then it turns out that the Podesta brothers have all sorts of weird art of children like this one of little girls who look like they are being bound with arms behind their back and wearing red shoes.

 

[mbinder]

I watched this the other night for the first time in years and few of my friends gave me shit for it.

Fuck them. I'm not a movie buff or a Kubrick fanboy, but I think this is a fantastic movie. Maybe Kubrick's best.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Maybe it was part of the act. Maybe the costume store owner Milich was just playing along with pretending to catch them and threaten them. I don't think he was an upstanding father who then thought, yea, I can turn a buck here. It seems more likely he was pimping his daughter and they were playing a game.

True.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Another weird connection to the Royal family is that when Bill meets the two models, one introduces the other as Nuala Windsor, seen here on the left.

Windsor is a very specific name to choose for a character that has 2 lines of dialogue. Interestingly, when you go to IMDb and look at the cast, it simply lists her as Nuala but if you go back and watch that scene, which I can't find a good cut of, she does say Nuala Windsor.

Now let this blow your mind.

This is the sculpture known as Dangerous Liaisons in Buckinghamshire, England.

And here is the comparison to the Eyes Wide Shut mask.

Here is where it gets interesting. The sculpture Dangerous Liaisons was created by an artist named Philip Jackson. Philip Jackson is the Royal Sculptor for Queen Elizabeth.

The sculpture Dangerous Liaisons is in Buckinghamshire, England. You may remember in an earlier post I mentioned Mentmore Towers and the Rothschilds party.

Mentmore Towers is located in Buckinghamshire, England. Only it doesn't stop there. Within Buckinghamshire, is a parish known as West Wycome. It was the home of the Hellfire Club, A.K.A. The Brotherhood of St. Francis of Wycome. What did they worship? None other than Venus.

According to Horace Walpole, the members' "practice was rigorously pagan: Bacchus and Venus were the deities to whom they almost publicly sacrificed; and the nymphs and the hogsheads that were laid in against the festivals of this new church, sufficiently informed the neighborhood of the complexion of those hermits." Dashwood's garden at West Wycombe contained numerous statues and shrines to different gods; Daphne and Flora, Priapus and the previously mentioned Venus and Dionysus.[34]

And guess what this rabbit hole doesn't stop there. The leader of the club wore red.

Meetings occurred twice a month, with an AGM lasting a week or more in June or September.[35] The members addressed each other as "Brothers" and the leader, which changed regularly, as "Abbot". During meetings members supposedly wore ritual clothing: white trousers, jacket and cap, while the "Abbot" wore a red ensemble of the same style.[36] Legends of Black Masses and Satan or demon worship have subsequently become attached to the club, beginning in the late Nineteenth Century. Rumours saw female "guests" (a euphemism for prostitutes) referred to as "Nuns". Dashwood's Club meetings often included mock rituals, items of a pornographic nature, much drinking, wenching and banqueting.[37]

The Hellfire Club acquired an old church and performed its pagan rituals in the basement.

Now listen again to what Victor Ziegler tells Bill about the attendees of the black mass. Timestamped.

That's one of the more telling lines from the whole movie to me.

Also I'm sure you know about the Royal Families connection to known pedophile Jimmy Savile.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, and Eyes Wide Shut are all difficult to piece together.

Dredge up the thread if you think we missed something.

Just the idea that she desired another man was enough to send Cruise into a tail spin

When Cruise was saving Mandy, he had her look at him multiple times. IMO this served two purposes. It showed that he saw her as a real person, and also set it up for her to recognize him at the orgy. She would have perhaps looked in his eyes enough to recognize them as the only visible part of his face when he was wearing the mask. I find it to be a bit of a stretch, but the only thing that makes sense.

Yeah, he was focused on her eyes and the audience on her tits. Impeccable professionalism on his part.

 

[Yotsuya]

The creepy piano is really cool to me because instead of just having it be a creepy score for the film, it was integrated into the film because Nick Nightingale was a pianist who played at the parties.

Nick plays that tune during the unmasking, right? That’s when it’s heard for the first time. That got me thinking, that he was involved in luring William to the orgy, because if he was actually blindfolded the whole time, then how could he have timed the tune so perfectly according what’s going on in the room? Another thing that got me thinking, that William was expected at the orgy was, that Mandy walked directly at him before she had any possibility to recognise him. And those girls at the party reminding William about the rainbow and the Hungarian hidalgo hitting on Alice at the same time to sow some paranoia between them and Mandy conveniently od’ing for William to save her. Nick slipping secrets after 5 minutes of conversation for a guy he’s not seen in ages.

 

[Yotsuya]

I think Kidman was definitely displeased to see her husband with two young coeds on his arm. Important to note that she didn’t know what he was up to when he disappeared for hours to help Mandy. She may have been ruminating and imagining that he banged them. That combined with his cavalier attitude that he never worried about her cheating on him may have made her feel taken for granted, and that may have led to her desire to make him feel the insecurity she felt, hence how she told him about the sailor.

It seemed like Kidman had had most of that joint the night after the party and one could see paranoia setting in about what happened there. I liked that scene a lot.

 

[MusterX]

Nick plays that tune during the unmasking, right? That’s when it’s heard for the first time. That got me thinking, that he was involved in luring William to the orgy, because if he was actually blindfolded the whole time, then how could he have timed the tune so perfectly according what’s going on in the room? Another thing that got me thinking, that William was expected at the orgy was, that Mandy walked directly at him before she had any possibility to recognise him. And those girls at the party reminding William about the rainbow and the Hungarian hidalgo hitting on Alice at the same time to sow some paranoia between them and Mandy conveniently od’ing for William to save her. Nick slipping secrets after 5 minutes of conversation for a guy he’s not seen in ages.

It does seem to be a bit of a set up although if it is then its one of the most clever set ups in cinematic history. Kubrick leaves a lot of details open to interpretation. I suppose you could say he was showing not telling. Although, if it was a clever set up then you have to infer that there is only 2 people that could be responsible for wanting him set up.

The dark horse 3rd person that might have set him up was Nightingale but damn, the entire thing is paranoia inducing. Ziegler was his patient and invited Bill to his party, a party which had 8 pointed occult stars as well as Nick Nightingale in attendance. Bill and Alice commented when they arrived that they didn't know anyone there. That or Alice did it, meaning she is a member with the cult, which would explain how her dream matches with Bill's reality. The problem is we have no way of ever knowing but yes, the details you bring up are really odd.

I mean what are the odds in a mansion full of wealthy people that two 10 out of 10 models would accost him and try to get him out of the party. Not only that but immediately, they tried to get him to leave Ziegler's party within minutes. Does that seem realistic? Meanwhile, Kubrick gives the film a run time of 2h38m and it still feels like there should be a couple more scenes to clear some stuff up.

 

[MusterX]

Dredge up the thread if you think we missed something.

I remember the week, I was really busy that week and mostly stayed out of the thread but yes, many things were discussed. I'm not sure you can ever truly understand everything in A Clockwork Orange. Look at 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick bafflefucks us with a black monolith.

BTW, hilarious to me that the VHS of 2001 looks like a black monolith.

I don't want to derail though, I'm just saying that Kubrick is a rascally rabbit.